OldSkool

I remember hearing Craig talk about how Wierwille used to invite some Doctor from Chicago to lecture the corps. I seem to remember the name Dr. Pete Barnett. Wierwille had some sort of revelation that this man was seed of the serpent and he would bring him around as some learning tool for the way corps. Anyone around for this?...or remember this? Please correct details as needed.

Poetic, in a twisted way. Getting tricked by the people who are supposed to be exposing the trickster...sums it up for me too.

Amen! This awful doctrine pins extra burden on the person who is having troubles and essentially blames the victim, so to speak. God is not a formula. Believing equals receiving takes the relationship aspect right out of Christianity and replaces it with second grade math. They run their supporting logic along the lines of "God is sovereign and perfect, the word just works, therefore if something is not happening then it must be your believing." Of all the devilish doctrines the way international promotes this one could be a contender for the top spot. I went through sheer hell trying to reconcile my child's health issues that developed in the womb with my believing. I cannot put into words the consternation I lived through trying to believe for his health. I always blamed myself and in fact I still deal with the mental residue of this teaching. Believing is faith which is simple trust. We learn to trust God and Christ. That what it means to have faith. If you follow the way international's logic the person believing is the one who fulfills the promises in the bible. The bible teaches that God fulfills his promises since he is the one who made them. We are to learn to have faith in God to fulfill his Word and take care of his people. Can you tell I finally have a little peace on the subject now? Welcome to GSC Socrates, and this is just my perspective, I welcome yours - even if it's different from mine.

They keep the website very basic and it is not that important to them. They don't even have an email link on the contact us page. I left in 2008. Since Craig for fired in 2000 they have systematically elevated Wierwille in their teachings, classes, fellowships, etc. If anything I think they are careful to not reference him on the website because they are very diligent to avoid the "cult image" of gathering starry eyed around a central figure. This is one of the main reasons they alternate teachers each week, and the dictator in-chief, Rosalie Rivenbark, hides in the background. Behind the scenes is a different story. Rosalie demands blind obedience, tells people what she thinks they need to know, and fires / demotes dissenters. If she speaks they all run hither and tither like the good little minions they are. I digress. Point being they are still a cult even if at a cursory glance they appear otherwise.

After being locked down there it became very ugly and mundane after a while. I did enjoy it at first. The day I left I felt as if I had been sprung from the joint.

When I was last there in 2008, the did the sunday teaching service (STS) at 3pm. Phone hookups were rigidly controlled and planned by the field leadership. Certain events required a phone hook-up such as Pentecost and the anniversary. They are too goofy to do pod casts and such. Heck they touted selling the service on DVD a couple years back as revolutionary. They usually blame the international followers, saying if the go too high tech then the internationals will be a$$ out. Draw your own conclusions to determine how incredibly out of touch and visionless they really are. They have to watch their angles now because they have a really hard time filling up the auditorium past the first three rows. That is one of the main reasons they started busing people in from the field on Sundays. Even with a couple branches in attendance they have trouble filling the lower level. The upper level RARELY opens, usually the anniversary and pentecost are the only times. Do the math to figure the horrible attendance.

Good lord, that video brings back bad memories of my time in-residentured there.

Makes sense to me. The real reason is never too difficult to discern when dealing with these simpletons, in spite of their efforts to keep it all confidential.

A few years ago Rico Magnelli was tasked to mouthpiece the final answer on the subject with a half-baked teaching presented to the way corps. I have forgotten most of it but his final conclusions were the same ole' party lines we've all heard before. Once it was taught it was expected that the corps would "study" the material, buy into it 100%, and then go teach this half baked "truth" to all the dissidents. Perhaps someone with a better memory than mine can recount some of the details? I do remember the teaching had a lot of old testament verses leading up to to Romans 13, as if Romans 13 was a continuation of the old testament. The underlying thread was debt was sin. They refrained from splitting hairs identifying debt in this teaching. That was left to the local leadership to quietly determine in conjunction with the way of the usa / directors. They have it set up so the issue is forced when someone tries to go above the intermediate class. Debt = no participation! They have made it so hard for people to get the advanced class they have effectively choked themselves of new advanced class grads, way disciples, staff, and way corps. Idiots.

Yep, in the end the organization is just another work of man. In this case a stupid corporation where the trustees / directors assume they are running "gawd's minustree."

Yep, it's twelve years I will never recoup. The damage is done and the only thing is to pick up the pieces and move onwards. However my worst day outside of the way international is better than the best days inside the way international. And I have finally found the freedom they said I could only have by discipling myself to their legalistic dogma. Of course those dorks like to quote John 10:10 and emphasize that the devil does nothing but steal, kill, and destroy. Then they turn around and discount when God prospers and repays a person post way international as the work of the devil. More double talk. The hypocrites really hate it when someone breaks the way international's bonds and moves on to greener pastures.

Other than a mountain of damaging evidence for the Allen lawsuit I would have to say not!

Good lord. So they were "invited to leave." What an incredibly lame way to say I kicked them out. So the my way or the high way attitude is from Victor Paul Wierwille and Craig just built on his foundation. Then there is the grandson, the president of SOWERS. (a little free advertising for them ) http://sowersonline.com/about.aspx Guess it's a family tradition?

Ya, ironic - eh? Maybe when I left that was the equivalent of kicking myself out? Or Perhaps this just goes to show how entrenched the "blame the victim" mentality is in da little corn field cult?

As a relative new-comer (mid 90s) I can say that the "official perception" is it was a Craig thing. Craig would drop folks. But I understand he learned from VP.

The Way Living In Love 1972 Elena S. Whiteside (Quoting Victor Paul Wierwille) Anyone want to have some fun with this one?

Great post, Chockful. I wish I had this sort of information at my finger tips when I was talked into attending my first way international fellowship! As for sanitizing victor paul wierwille's image, I witnessed it first hand for around 8 years or so. They hold that crook in the highest regard. As for Christ, to them he is absent - seated at the right hand of God. So they substitute their "dear leaders" in his stead.

Sowers gives me the creeps. There, some free advertising for ya.

Great post. Love it.

Computer programming provides an apt analogy. If / Then statements. If you REALLY love God, Then you will ..... If you are REALLY committed, Then you will ..... etc.... Always moving the goal posts and calling it raising the bar.

I remember when the no debt policy was in full effect in the early 90s. As a budding young zealous wayfer I had moved around the country a bit going way D, moving in with my fellowship coordinators, etc. Anywho, the thing that baffled me was the different laws regarding what was debt and what was not debt. It literally varied from branch to branch, limb to limb. I cannot imagine how much time was spent by the way of the usa and the board of directors trying to give legal advice on how to avoid this "sin." Since then they have mandated no debt requirements on participating in anything above the intermediate class. Advanced Class? - Got debt? NO ADMITTANCE! Advanced Class Special? - Got debt? NO ADMITTANCE! Serve on Staff? - Got debt? NO ADMITTANCE! Way Disciple? - Got debt? NO ADMITTANCE! Way Corps - Got debt? NO ADMITTANCE! etc..... It's poetic justice. They have a no debt policy that is literally strangling participation (READ INCOME) from their upper echelon programs. Their real bread winners. I love it. Idiots. It also underscores their ignorance of how debt cannot be avoided. Our money is debt. It's printed by the Federal Reserve and loaned to the US government at interest. Citizens on the hook to pay it back. I won't get into that here but if you want a good read on the subject check out the following link. http://www.webofdebt.com/

:biglaugh: :biglaugh:

I remember when John Reynolds gave his plug for Rosalie when Craig was "stepping down" and Rosalie was being made president and chairman of the board of directors. To paraphrase John R.: translation according to OldSkool usage: I dunno I just find it humorous in hindsight. Technically, the only "Officers" in the way international up to that point: President Vice President <--- I never knew this was also the COO spot...lol Secretary / treasurer is not an officer position but a board of directors slot...I digress... http://managementhelp.org/boards/brdjobs.htm They always emphasized themselves as the board of trustees, but kept officer titles...Prez...Vice Prez....little Napoleons needed those important sounding names...anywho... So my question is did Rosalie usher in this pseudo-corporate era? Has the way international found survival (even though it's on life support) by moving away from the MOG / old-testament / put em outside the camp / ministry of Vic and Craig's day....to....we are a 501c3, non-profit corporation with work in 30 countries.... Since the Allen lawsuit there was a major push for legitimacy and since they were going to court defending against RICO charges and other VERY DAMAGING allegations I think their lawyers told them to clean up their act, if only in appearance. But then you have Rosalie....poor old Rosalie....the same old dame who (back when she was a lowly department coordinator) required way publications staff to sign a checkout list indicating they are using the crapper...... I heard her say, at a cabinet meeting none-the-less, that she: Pray tell Rosie...are you upset because the dictatorial powers of your predecessors were watered down when you took the reigns? It's funny Rosie...around the campfire you are credited with saving gawd's ministry.... but in reality you hate the kinder, gentler way international your lawyers made for you.... Could it be that in your survival mode rush to grab a thread of legitimacy by cloaking yourself in corporate garb you made a mad dash into irrelevancy? Just some rambling thoughts...

GEN-2!!!!! WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! rosy red - and I thought you were talking about Rosalie.

Wow, thanks for that. I am (for once ) speechless. You too, WordWolf.