OldSkool

From somewhere, either through imagination or plagiarism, Wierwille collected all sorts of pithy sayings. The implication was he was such a deep thinker with such a Bible saturated conscience that he coined these little phrases. Anywho, one that really hits me in the gonads is: "God first, others second, I am willing to be third." I had this saying shoveled down my throat so many, many times during my time in TWI. It was used to justify all the sacrifice I was required to make for the way international. Wierwille was used as the image to follow and it was plainly stated this was how he lived. Really? Wierwille lived at the top of the heap. No convenience was out of his reach. He was addicted to creature comforts of all varieties. Planes, motor coaches, women galore, booze at his fingertips, an army of followers catering to his every need, a wife that was at his disposal, motorcycles for his leisure - and I am just scratching the surface. I wish I could excuse his protégées for being different, but they aren't. Ya, you talk about private inurements ever since you started listening to your lawyers but all you directors still demand the highest servitude from subordinates, all so you can spend your time shuffling papers in your various and sundry meetings. You all do nothing but put your selves first, like greedy little pigs. And of course teach others that putting you first is putting God first.

Following along the way international's practices, TLTF still charges people for video classes. They have a whole line of verses seemingly intended to shame students into paying for what should be free. Verses on giving and receiving, holy scripture used to extract what can be extracted. Then, as a side note they say they will give the video away to anyone who can't afford the $39.00. <_< The hypocrisy slaps me right across the face. Lead the way in freely giving and freely receiving. You seek to teach us how to give, yet when it comes to your best offerings you charge MONEY. So, is all that you do give freely intended to whet our appetites into buying the inner secrets? You certainly DO put yourself out there in many ways without charging. Are these offerings the big fat claims - the advertisements needed to promote your products? Shame on you. I do read your monthly news letter, and it's not all bad. In fact there is much good. But a little leaven leavens the whole lump. So what if you have staff. If you are helping people you will receive donations. God is able to meet your needs! If people can't give then your example will be that much more impacting, just as it was with Paul. Perhaps if you weren't so encumbered with setting up a non-profit corporation your priorities would be different.

^^ I marked and avoided them and their ilk a few years ago. I like the ring of DFPOA.

I can tell you this much - unless something has changed in the several years since I left, the young people aren't falling for it anymore. Most will not come on staff thanks to Rozilla unjustly firing several younger kids a few years ago, and letting Tim Martindale escape all consequence when he was the ring leader in a night of drinking. I literally saw throngs of young people disappear altogether from HQ staff. Also, I had interaction with a lot of youngster at HQ and the prevailing consensus is TWI is religious and stiff. There is no excitement, no buy in point for the younger generation. Just the yoke their parents would seek to lay on them about being the next generation. Most stay well clear of the corps program. A few people go corps each years, and not all graduate. They were barely graduating 5 to 7 each year when I was around. I dunno if that has improved or not. I doubt it though. The kids today are internet savvy and they do lurk here. And I think a lot of them have their eyes open and want more out of life than a pauper's existence while being in servitude to TWI.

I recently learned of another way corps couple who had been dropped from active corps...aka...DFAC. Reason? Health problems. How do you like that? Jesus healed the sick but the way international kicks them out of a lifetime commitment of Christian service. Ya ya...I know. Nothing new here to see. It still gets my goat to see people abused like this for no reason. It is usually a devastating event to be booted from the corps. Most corps live in fear that their name tag will fall off for something trivial. But a Christian group that boots people for having sickness? Wowsa. And apparently the health problems weren't that serious, from what I can tell. You know what though? Part of me hopes they keep kicking out active way corps because they aren't graduating enough new bodies to keep up with the DFACs. Laters.

Hey, they have a storehouse of truth. <_<

Well, keep in mind, wierwille was into the illuminati and all things devil. Heck, the advanced class which is the pinnacle of their flagship teaching series culminates not with the focus on God, but rather with several days on devil spirit categories with flimsy scriptures to back it all up.

Someone born of the seed of the serpent, as referenced in Genesis 3:15 It's clear in scripture that the serpent (Devil) has some sort of offspring. Wierwille taught that this offspring were those who had confessed Satan as their lord and were open to possession from any devil spirit at any time. This sin, he taught, was also the unforgivable sin in 1 John 5. They operate as world rulers and run the kingdoms of the world.

I seem to remember Martindale going on during a STS some years ago about how wierwille had brought in a Dr. who was also a seed boy. He let the man speak but privately told the corps he was seed and it was for their learning. :smilie_kool_aid:

They would likely decline. Really, I think it's the smugness in the attitude that "we have the truth and you don't."

SO TRUE!!! Anytime someone in the way corps would ladder down towards placements it always seemed to be accompanied with the whispers, "wonder what they did?" UTTER GARBAGE! People in the corps are at the whim of Rosie and Donna and may be moved around at their slightest desire and for no particular reason.

Outside boot camp, the military doesn't even yell that much --- so I have been told.

There have been few other leadership examples I have seen that are actually worse that what you find in the way international. I had several years management/project management experience before going into the way corps. There were clear cut goals, authority was delegated along with responsibility, there was wide lateral movement to accomplish tasks, there was true support from higher ups, money was allocated in the form of a budget and there was freedom to spend as needed, etc. Above all there was freedom to succeed and inspire excellence in those who worked for me. Going into the way corps I really expected to build on what I had been trained in. After all, it was supposed to be the greatest leadership training on earth? So after wasting 4 years in way corps training, what did I find? Some of the worst leadership examples on earth - the way corps. Now that's not to say there are no talented people in the way corps. They are simply in a system that will always hold them back. And so I find myself (upon graduation) working on staff at HQ. I was highly micromanaged. I received responsibilities galore but no real authority to carry them out without seeking approval for even the smallest matter. I had to turn in reports on very frivolous matters that concerned the private lives of employees. I was responsible to report to Rosalie (via chain of command) that everyone had heard the Sunday teaching service each week. There were no tangible goals. Most lead from hind sight and the mantra of "this is what we did last year." Other leaders I worked with were not interested in excelling but only maintaining the status quo. They were afraid to be different. Nobody wanted to draw attention to themselves for fear of censure. I could go on. I can personally say I swam upstream while I was there. I revamped a dysfunctional department and received praise for a very short season. In the end I was identified as a "bad guy" because I would not roll over and take wrong from the directors. Let it stand as a warning for anyone that thinks they can change the way ministry as I once did. A corrupt organization cannot be made non-corrupt. This little cultic, 501-c3 has been corrupt since wierwille was around living off the donations of others. Run, run fast and far. There is no true leadership in the way international. They are the blind leading the blind. The group has been told they are the best in the world. They have been "gassed up."

I like the common sense choice, "Because he is evil." Makes sense to me! Me, I had to be a smart @$$ and choose "Because you are dumb enough to listen to TWI leadership"

If only I had a dollar for every thought I typed that cyberspace mangled. I think you made a good distinction. God keeps score and will repay, and certainly takes care of those TWI has taken advantage.

Krys, to be clear my gripe is not against the Bible and scripture's regarding giving. They are against the organization that lauds those scriptures and ignores other scriptures that define their responsibility towards those that serve them. God is true, keeps account, and will make it right. To put it mildly, the way international ignores their fiduciary responsibility as an employer. Your post makes it seem that people you know were rewarded by not griping. I disagree with that, if I understand correctly, because many people were wronged by TWI and speaking out when wronged is not wrong. A person on the short end of the stick needs to vent, process the emotions, or they may have even more problems. That's the way I see it anyway and I speak from personal experience. I also do not think that God punishes people by withholding what is owed them because they had grievances.

That about sums it up for me, Chock. I have to say all along I used to wrestle with where Jesus taught "The laborer is worthy of his hire." It used to chap me that I received so little, while giving so very much. I literally rerouted the course of my life for that organization, for what turned out to be empty promises. The promises are constant though - give, give, give and you shall receive a hundred fold. Then of course the fine print clauses that come about when you aren't receiving like promised. "You are going to get rewards at the gathering together that eye has not seen neither ear hear" - to paraphrase. I could go on. I've been had by them, thats for sure. In the depth of my soul I knew what they were doing was wrong, but I thought I could change it all for the glory of God. I realize now that God never ordained the way international to do anything for him, and he doesn't need people to go there and straighten it out so he can use it for his purposes. Nope, Jesus is doing just fine as the head of the Church and as God's right hand man without any help from wierwille and the like.

Listening to Wierwille now, his inconsistencies are glaring.

This is my problem as well and I am of the same opinion. I consider myself a Christian in that I believe the Bible to be the source of faith for the Christian follower, though currently I am not a "practicing" Christian (taking some time off from Church.) So, to me, there are so many verses on SIT and I still SIT myself. It was so emphatically taught in TWI that it was just the do all manifestation that I found their teachings highly suspect. Especially, when all the formulas and wordy definitions for the revelation and impartation manifestations produce no results. They defy their own teachings that each manifestation has it's own purposes and boundaries, yet they SIT for the sick and take them to the hospital for emergency surgery in the next minute (and by gosh they should have just went to the hospital in the first place.) If what they teach on the Holy Spirit and the manifestations were true then they would work, but the big fat claims regarding this topic are lies. After having the advanced class, being way disciple 2X, being way corps, being in top leadership positions, and putting their teachings to the test; I was let down into deep failure. Let the God be true, but they are liars.

I am really ok with what ever direction the thread takes. I am usually one of the main culprits to drag a thread off. and lol@off topic police. Glad I missed them.

There are good people in TWI, and bad people who make an occasional good decision from time to time. In no way does this excuse this corrupt organization from all the injury that has been inflicted by it's representatives, ranging from Wierwille to Rivenbark, and the sea of minions that have nipped their ankles over the years.

That stupid ministry and it's devilish teachings have left people decimated in it's wake. There will be a reckoning one day, and I can't wait.

^^ No need to apologize, threads meander their way where they need to. Like the post. It really illustrates things well.

Well, my intent in the original post was to point out that whatever speaking in tongues really is, or does, or does not - it is not the all in one tool the way international makes it out to be. And I cited an example that illustrates their failure and deceit in an illustration given by clergy at a corps teaching. Otherwise, the thread can go which ever direction you guys wanna take it. Off topic or on. That is the life of a thread after all. :unsure: