OldSkool

Egads.

Then you would sure appreciate Holy Cross-Immaculata here in Cincinnati. http://www.hciparish.org/ I've trekked the stairs up there more than once and sat inside when it was empty. Quite the marvel.

Rosie stole his mic.

Some of my best times on GSC is when me and The Squirrel are hitting the sauce at the same time and posting utter nonsense. The best is waking up the next day and realizing that I was posting under the influence (PUI) again.

No, I am not endeavoring to find an out to dismiss anything. With that said, I am not so sure what TWI taught us was all that unique since it was pilfered from here to hell's half acre from extant sources. My proposal is to contact one of the researchers (perhaps Samarin) and offer digital samples from those of who are willing to play ball. I'm game.

Forgive my late entry in this little pi$$ing match. Anywho, do we know with reasonable certainty that what the researchers studied was/is the same as we learned in TWI?

Raf - for what it's worth, I changed my vote because: a) I truly am a smart a$$. b) I am leaning towards SIT as taught by TWI is a fraud. In fact I am really leaning towards that all 9 manifestations as, as taught by TWI, is a fraud. Why? I find the arguments against it logical and compelling. And it wasn't until I quit defending TWI's doctrine/practice in my own mind and separated that from God that I was able to think on the matter with an open mind. Now, if you had added another option that didn't include lying the poll would have been easier to deal with. Granted, you admitted as much 40 some odd pages ago.

I did it just to stir the pot.

I would think so too.

Yes. Same way for me when I learned how to improvise. Musical studies are all about getting to the music a person has in their head, so to speak. Once a person learns to express it then playing without thinking about it is just natural. A person has trained themselves through countless hours of practice over the years. After a while the fingers just hit the note. And if and when a mistake is made, you just keep rolling and learn to cover the mistake. But it becomes second nature. Like speaking.

That's nucking futts. We are on the same page.

I attended Musicians Institute in Hollywood CA. I'm a lead guitarist and I was taught to improvise as part of the Jazz based curriculum. A LOT of Jazz players are excellent at improvisation. Once someone has mastered the fundamentals of music then improvisation is almost natural. A appropriate parallel is someone talking once they have mastered language fundamentals. Language and music are simply expressions of what's inside a person. To attribute that to the devil is in itself devilish, since it's part of the beauty that God created in people.

--- I had no idea improvised Jazz and other styles of music were from the devil. Does TWI's ignorance know any bounds?

I had my hunches around 30 pages ago.

And let's not forget those they can exact a commitment out of are more likely to throw money into TWI's coffers one way or another.

Any conversation with that old hag is enough to tee me off.

Well, carry on. I'm certainly not offended by any of it. And that's why I addressed both of you guys and not one or the other. Carry on. I will grab my popcorn and enjoy the show!

My opinion is Chock and Raf should cool it. Why ruin the thread when it has some very good information in it and thought provoking points raised by both "sides." My 2 cents anyway.

Ok, lemme say where I am at the moment on the topic. I have gone through a lot of mental wranglings. And no I have not read every post or followed every link or whatever. Just don't have the attention span...honest enough? My mental wranglings on the subject have taken me from not wanting to question the validity of modern SIT, to realizing I had wrong teaching from TWI that taught me to have faith in SIT as proof positive of so many things. Yet, that is wrong because I am supposed to have faith IN God...not SIT. Ok...so it's not proof of everything then it still must be real because I never faked anything. Onwards... I have dealt with a lot of defense mechanisms in my own brain. At times I have felt defensive because something I believed true seemed to be under attack. At other times I have found myself very apathetic and seemed inclined to the attitude of "why attack someone else's faith?" -- which is very wrong in this case, since no one is really attacking anything....we are suppose to prove all things and hold fast the good right? So here I am. I understand the two side's ongoing arguments. The burden of proof is on the tongue talkers, no doubt. So here is the issue at hand...and it reflects my current disposition. Modern SIT should stand up to scrutiny. It should prove itself to be what the Bible says it is. Else, where is the integrity in what I believe? God is true. What if.....what if modern SIT is all BS and not one of us here (that has been influenced by the charismatic movement and taught by Wierwille) has been exposed to true SIT as described in the Bible? I am finally willing to accept that, and personally, I want to know the truth.

Hold the phone...you have heard someone speak in tongues and you understood the language?

He needed to. If he saw his life as it was, he would have ran to the hills! The mystery is: Why in the hell would anyone stick with the way international?

You sound like someone who doesn't understand alcoholism and the devastating effects it has on the alcoholic and their families. No one ever claimed it as the be all, end all for anything. For the alcoholic who is serious about the program and live the 12 steps it's literally a life saver. And as for Craig, who did he ever help or save. He helped himself generously and couldn't save himself from Rozilla giving him the boot.

Actions taken by Oldschool: ....reads Pete's post...thinks for a minute....promptly braces himself for 60 more pages of circles...