OldSkool

You know, its wild to me that the argument is presented that because nobody came aftet VPee that his plagiarism was acceptable. Isnt that the same logic that would say a person who steals isnt a thief unless they are caught?

Lmao....last i knew she was living with Sharon down in South Carolina. Rosalie used to go visit them stay with them. One of my corps brothers used to be their branch coordinator.

I was told by an old friend that was on staff at hq, working in Multi Services. He helped set up Janet and Sharon's furniture. The bedroon had only one bed. Guess the math isnt too hard from there.

Pssst....hey Mike....if stealing others ideas, written works, research, theological works, etc. is such a harmless thing then why is the way international so protective over anything they deem theirs? They've filed lawsuits over songs in sing along the way before. Oh....that darned double standard thing comes into play...lol

Leaving is much harder with a family imo. Twi has a long track record of treating people like garbage, id say its a tradition that goes back to vpw. If they could have all the staff working for free and give three hots n a cot they gladly would.

These guys at rnr are so way brained they password protect a an alleged christian website. Well if they keep it up they wont have to worry about new members...lol Acting like the predecessors they stood up against. Too funny.

You can rationalize it however u choise. A person who steals while leading a small town church is still a thief. But you are how i used to be. Blind to the simple truth that twi is, was, and will always be a sham.

Bolsh if def tongue in cheek. The logic is all Martindale though.

Whatever category biblical research falls under. Thats supposed to be where his publications fit. I would think any research work would provide a reputable method to cite sources.

Maan. It's simple. http://www.plagiarism.org/plagiarism-101/what-is-plagiarism Wierwille, who was supposed to be a Dr., should have known better. All the excuses in the world doesnt make Wierwilles actions acceptable, he stole his ideas and presented them as his own. Mind u, im not saying the content vpw stole was wrong, harmful, or totally inaccurate. Im simply saying that he was a plagiarist, amongst many othet things.

http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/vp_stolenrthst.htm Im sure you remember Dr. John Juedes side by side comparisons?

Mike - vp was a fraud who stole other's work and claimed it as his own. He was a plagiarist. Thats just wrong...period.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranas_Talzūnas Rofl@Wierwilles claim that he invented the hook shot.

I am no exception. Me n my family were subjected to a year and a half of harassment from the bod before we left. Ive recounted a lot of details on GSC. Honestly, that time pales in comparison to what others have been subjected to by the board of dummies and other nut jobs.

Yep, im 43 atm. I agree, im starting to grow up in the sense that Im salvaging whats left of my life after TWI and seeking new direction where I am fulfilled. Being outta TWI close to 9 years has been a interesting voyage to say the least. The amount of garbage that went on behind the scenes and still goes on is mind boggling. Im inspred by how you live. I have begun to do the same. Help where I can, treat all people as loving as possible, even if it means smiling at a stranger and saying hi, Ditto on life being better after TWI. Even with my current situation, which is trying, is still better than life in an abusive, controlling, manipulative cult.

Thx T-bone!

It still remains a really good work. Bout to go see if I can find an online copy. Cheers!

I remember LCM loved Dake's. I used it many time while in-residence and loved it too. VeePee ripped him off as well? Now that sure is revealing, isnt it? I sometimes wonder how much original material he actually had.

Oops typo. I was told by one of my corps brothers to read Just and The Justifier...

After reading so many historical timelines of the way international here on GSC, and being an eyewitness to many of the changes implemented during/after the Allen lawsuit, it all comes down to one perpetual whitewash. The way international is a whited sepulcher. It all makes perfect sense to me now, especially when I consider the past that the way international does not want revealed in any capacity - unless of course its the approved version they teach the in-res corps through Ms Wierwille's incomplete biography of vpw, etc. But let's not forget the approved versions of the many nostalgic character traits vpw supposedly demonstrated as the man of god for our day and time. I was 32nd way corps, graduated in 2003. From 1996 - 2003 I spent my time immersed in all things the way international. Lived with my fellowship coordinators, moved with them, as they became candidate corps, went way disciple as they did - only in a different state. Was an assistant fellowship coordinator the remaining six months after my first way disciple year. Started my candidate year as a fellowship coordinator then went way disciple my apprentice year and was assigned to HQ. Spent two years in residence only to be assigned as assistant department coordinator at hq upon graduation from the corps. Became department coordinator within two years. Within a year as department coordinator was asked to be on the presidunce cabinet. Two years later I made my exit in 2008. Starting in 96 I was blown away by martindale's teachings, classes, etc. In my youthful zeal I choose blinders that suited my comfort level. Martindale was the man of God in my mind. I was told by my fellowship coordinators (who had been dropped from the way corps and been around damn near 30 years and were going corps a second time) of some of the history, fog years, the importance of the present truth, why the past was so bad - the adversary uses it, the importance of staying lock step with hq/Martindale, etc. During that time I witnessed the debt policy implemented, the no gift policy, learned of the no pregnancy BS, kept a tight schedule that my fellowship coordinator approved and oversaw. I was the perfect cult leader in training. I was so gung ho that when craig had us dial in on the phone hookup and admitted to a one time consensual affair with Mrs. All3n that I knew it must be the devil trying to take out my MOGFODAT. But during this time of supposed one time consensual affairs.......my exposure to dissension within the ranks from my branch/limb coordinators at the time began in full. But I was still lock step sold out to twi and craiggers.....aaaaaaannnnnd then I was assigned to hq for my second tenure as way disciple and my apprentice year. During this time I began adjusting my blinders to allow more light to shine. - 1999 - A couple months after I arrived at hq craig was asked to leave. My cabinet guy informed us that a major impediment had been removed. - Shortly after craig's departure dissenting top leadership (S@iler, Pannasmello, et al.) were rounded up, told to move into founders hall for monitoring and then either quit or were fired if they didn't get in line with Rosie the riveter. - Afterwards, hq staff were informed via their pres. cabinet that the board of dummies had invited two cult experts to hq and instructed hq staff to answer any questions honestly while going about our wayfer lives as normal. - During this same time frame so many changes were ushered into staff's and way corps' routines. Examples follow (but are not limited to): the pregnancy policy abolished, staff moved from need basis pay scale to salary based on an hourly basis (aka start of 46 hour hour cap with ot approved by presidents cabinet up to 52 hours and more hours than 52 approved by BOD,) Coerced volunteer time was now separate by cabinet area and coerced with department coordinators signing up those that didn't volunteer), staff personal schedules were no longer required to be turned in for approval, two by two travel was no longer mandated but encouraged, bod were forced to implement a harassment policy into the staff hand book as a system of redress for hq as well as staffers, STS attendance was now supposedly voluntary but checklists were still gathered by department every Monday morning, the noon meal was no longer mandatory, etc. - All of this gave the impression that rosalie was our great deliverer. Us plebe staffers had no idea that behind rosalie were lawyers hired by TWI to diffuse lawsuit ammo and whitewash the cult yet again from craigs lunacy. Whitewashed it so far and thorough that teaching responsibilities were decentralized from the president of TWI to many chosen folks. That way there was no charismatic leader to point the finger at. Wax on, wax off. - It was during this time that I was transferred out of my department and onto a large project to repair the main electrical loop that had fried from neglect. I found myself a fly on the wall to so many long time staffers and way corps that kept telling the same stories about craig and vpw. Abuse, adultery, large scale involvement of way corps to procure and hide that vpw and craig were serial sexual predators who preyed on any woman they found vulnerable. Personal misuse of ABS by board of trustees/directors over the years. Heck, this was such a big deal that even rosalie had to pay TWI to have grounds cut her grass at foxhaven lest she be found guilty of private inurement which would risk TWI losing its 501c3 status. The list could continue. Needless to say that my blinders were just about off at this point. - It was during this time that rosalie announced that twi had settled the lawsuit with the Allens. This announcement was during lunch in the OSC so all staff were present. Most people were in a daze filled with relief that the adversary no longer could seek to destroy TWI through this lawsuit. There were handfuls of people that simply sat there with a blank stare and I was one of them. I sat there and thought WTF does rosie mean she settled a RICO case (and other charges) that had been levelled against TWI? Settled, that's a payoff to keep it out of court, right? Guess my critical thinking skills were developing in their infancy at this juncture. Ok, after leaving HQ to go in-residence at camp gunnison this is where I started to learn some very startling truths. It was during this time I learned that rosie had two known lesbians living in her basement at foxhaven. Frankly, I coulda cared less about it except twi was so extremely anti-homosexual. I also took time to peruse through old corps night tapes of LCM. Rosalie hadnt had the chance to purge the study hall library at gunnison late 2001. So I heard first hand so many tapes where he defamed standing way corps, et al., went on cursing tirades against the IRS, etc, and was just a complete hateful a$$. Definately not words a true minister would impart. She purged it all before I graduated. Next I dove into university of life. I devoured tape after tape, but it was VPs Roman teachings that I was enthralled with. I was told by one of my corps brothers at the time to read Just and The Justifier by Charles H. Welsch - a student of E.W. Bullinger. I was shocked that the content of the Roman teachings were straight outta Welsch's work, yet no credit was given. VPW took all the credit for the teachings....period! Naturally, this started to open my eyes to the issues TWI should have with vpw's years of plagiarism. They should have but don't care at all. Upon my graduation into the way corps I was starting to become keenly aware of the many problems twi had in front of them to survive as a church/ministry. I was still under the impression that rosalie was the deliverer and was slowly changing things from the inside for the betterment of God's standing belivers in the household of the way. Pfffft. My assignments at hq as assistant DC, DC, and prez cabinet opened my eyes fully to the sad truth. The truth that if the Allen lawsuit never happened nothing would have ever changed. in TWI But change happened anyway so that must be good and rosalie still TWI protector, right? Wrong Wrong Wrong! During a cabinet meeting one Thursday afternoon rosalie went on a rant because a certain clergy member at TWI had skipped the STS to attend their kids softball game. She plainly stated that she hated all the changes that had been forced on TWI over the years as a result of the Allen lawsuit. She said if she could, she would take a baseball bat to the dude who had skipped the STS. If she could she would undo all the changes forced on TWI by their lawyers. IT was during this time that I fully started to realize the simple truth. The way international had been hide vpw's evils for years. But because of craig martindale's evils being brought into a court of law they have had to white wash every aspect of TWI into the bland, boring crap it is today. Most disgustingly, they blatantly hide vps plagiarism, the fact that he was a sexual predator and adulterer. They hide that he was a drunk. he was mean, short tempered, kept body guards. They especially hide the way east and west and the hostile takeover vpw did to Heefner and Doop. My God, where would the list stop if I were to continue? They way is a preservation society that has elevated victor paul wierwille above Christ and knowingly covered sin after sin of it's founder and successor(s). Most importantly rosalie rivenbark has hid her own sins as someone who not only knew that craig was a sexual predator but also helped him conceal his crimes until she risked too much exposure. The way international truly is extremely deceptive in how they have handled God's Word. I'm thankful I witnessed what I did and can put it out in plain sight, So much more could be said, so much more had been said. Here's part of my two cents. - -

Not to mention breaking your commitment.

When i first arrived at headquarters in August of 1999 every mom had a wooden spoon in their backpocket or within reach. Misbehaving kids were whisked away and whacked with spoons all the time. It was ordered by leadership and was considered the rod of correction doctrinally. Then came the cult experts hired by the board of dummies who were given free reign to peruse all aspects of staff and free reign to wander around grounds and observe. They were there to identify obvious practices that needed to be eliminated so twi could no longer be considered a cult. Of course the wooden spoons came under scrutiny and memos sent out by cabinet area instructing people not to carry spoons and not to beat their kids with them. That was pretty much the end of that practice afaik.

Mike - Vpw was corrupt. To quote Jeses teaching - a corrupt tree produces corrupt fruit. Vpw legacy screams corrupt fruit. Adulterer, drunk, thief aka plagiarist, hypocrite, and especially sexual predator. So u think the work he stole and amalgamated into whats known as Plaf is good fruit? He used godly works of other men to promote his own lusts and he had many lusts. Go to the original authors and study their works that vic stole. Take that material to scripture to see if it stands approved. But dont dishonor those authors that vpw ripped off by elelevating plaf in any way.