OldSkool

Taxidev, how does Gallagher handle SIT?

Yet the concept of not losing eternal life is really clear across the scripture for those born again. After i left twi i did turn my back on God for close to a decade. I caused a butt load of problems in my personal life, suffered some major mental and emotional issues as well during thst time. Recently, i surrendered my fight against God and finally humbled myself. After a series of very miracolous events ive been healed and deliverec from those same self inflicted problems. Today, my relationship with God and Christ is better than anything i have formerly known, even when i waz way corps. So im calling bs on Dan and his paper. I agree with Rocky. His position on the subject will eventually be lorded over people for fear based control.

Wow, sounds lile so much of the bs i often was exposed to while at hq and gunnison. All these special nuances of blessings bestowed on leadership. When i was leadership i hated the attention but had to accept people makimg a big deal of nothing. As if i was some special component of their salvation. Truth is i was just like everyone else, stumbling through life and human frailty, trying to make things do what they do. Twinky, i think id like to turn my own pages....lol

The fellowship i went to was an open affair, meaning someone had volunteered to teach and therd was an open forum for folks to give feedback and even discuss any disagreements. They didnt ask for money or pass a stupid horn around. I dont think there is too much to be marked n avoided from. At present theres mostly a,loose network of fellowships, and there is no centralized command center yet.

To be clear, i wish them the best. I went to one of their fellowships about a month ago. It was a fun time. If i was closer i would go more often. Im still surprised that many in this group stood up to rosie.

As i understand, the leadership of rnr consider the current state of affairs in twi (led by rosie n donna) wrong on many levels, but the "package" put together by wierwolf is solid. The leadership of rnr lack a central focus, and are figuring out how to move onwards from twi. Many of them didnt expect to get marked and avoided and are scrambling. They basically follow the same model as twi, they even do phone hookups. It seems to me that they are trying to pick up the pieces but dont understand how deeply the damage of an abusive cult has affected them. If you dont recognize the problem you cant fix it. They dont see the problems in wierwille theology, they dont see that selling classes isnt working or that perhaps webex is better than a live telephone hookup.

Gotta say.

He wants money for a website that can be put together for next to mothinh. Ive made and ran seversl sites over the years. Besides hosting costs and maybe a template or two theres not much to it. He should givevof his own resources for something so small in the scheme of things. My opinion anyway. He pulled the same move Lynn n others did. Position paper, split ftom group, take followers. New boss same as old boss.

His facebook page.

Please consider helping us inspire, encourage, and equip God's people by making a donation. 20% of all proceeds go directly to helping others spread the Good News in foreign countries. We need your help so we can continue building our website in order to reach others for Christ. A donation of any size is greatly appreciated. SImply click on the image below. It really didnt take Dan too long to start asking for money.

Whats up JJ!!! One of my in rez corps fellow detainees witnessed to the seed lady in Colorado. She declined to come to fellowship....born of the wrong seed n all.

Thanks for the answer. I dont think being cut off is the same as losing eternal life, which is what im saying is encompassed within the umbrella of salvation. Israel cut themselves off from the new covenant by unbelief. They rejected the Messiah, Yeshua, and paved the way for God to turn to the gentiles, who Paul is clearly addressing in Romans 11. Once a person is born again they are no longer gentile or jew but a new creation and the Church of God. Yet, if anyone confesses Jesus is Lord and believes God raised him from the dead they are saved whether gentile or jew. If that salvation (eternal life) could be rejected once received via the new birth i think God woild have given a stern warning the way he did Adam with thou shalt surely die. There is no such warning for the Church of God. Yet the consequences of walking in the old man nature can be quite severe, including loss of reward, and penalty incurred, that is not the same as eternal death aka the second death of the judgements. Rejecting salvation for the born again would by default place one in the great white throne judgments in revelation, i guess....lol I could go on, but then would be even more into doctrinal than i am. Plus, im not trying to say you are wrong Taxidev. There is a lot i have to learn on the subject. I appreciate the summation, you saved my 114 pages of Gallagher rhetoric that i have no desire to sift through. Cheers!

I started to ask Dan for a copy but (knowing Dan) assumed it would be loaded with rhetoric. Can u summarize his position in a few words? Thanks either way. I disagree with losing salvation based on the logic Wordwolf laid out. But i am curios.

Anyone read the 114 page paper Dan wrote on his position?

Oh, they still say it though. They just have their own definition of research where they hVe followers reread their publications, which of course are proven ministry research and thus above reproach

Mike: - twlil is not in anyway, shape, or form a bibliography at all. Please learn what one is if you are confused - other than quoted scripture, the materials in the collaterals are not God breathed, theopneustos. Twi would have everything to gain by selling that big fat claim but arent foolish enough to try. Sincerely, Oldskool

Mike, the way living in love has been out of print for years and the way international acts as if they are embarrased by its contents as they should be. So yes, its an obscure out of print publication that is all but forgotten in the scope of vpw career as a huckster. One things for certain, twlil in no way ever served, or was ever meant to serve, as a bibliography for vpw's various plagaraized books. Its a shameless self promotional brochure written by a starry eyed young lady who interviewed a narciscistic plagairist, amongst other starry eyed young followers. The self promotion by wierwille in twlil is embarrasing to rosalie and company, you know, the ones who currently control his legacy and image. Twi openly state that vpw learned from many others as God brought them to him. Then he took what he learned to the scripture and penned the results of his so called research. That is a blatant lie. John Juedes side by side comparisons show tbe truth: http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/tw_founder.htm I invite readers to follow any of the links on the page i linked to. Laters!

Its the same, they make that point in the fnc in the segment covering formed, made, and created. Twi rearranges the most fundamental boundaries in life and calls that sleight of hand "spiritual." Im sure thats one of the issues that so many of us struggle with post twi, and perhaps that makes Mike's logic fallicy based arguments seem so sound to him. Passing nonsense for wisdom. Like saying its ok to plagaraize others works as long as you can say the concepts are biblical because then spiritual law supercedes mans law. Obviiusly stealing is stealing.

Dear Mike, in·tel·lec·tu·al prop·er·ty noun LAW a work or invention that is the result of creativity, such as a manuscript or a design, to which one has rights and for which one may apply for a patent, copyright, trademark, etc.

Rewards of iniquity.

John Rupp called that accumulated wisdom....lol...appareantly there is years of that stuff floating around at the director level.

So put the colors within the quote.

Rofl!

To whomever: can we stop spamming up the threads with colored fonts and all? The forums have a quote function that makes it easy to read along. Unless one's intent is to obfuscate threads, the quote function does wonders

Circular reasoning works because it works