OldSkool

Bolsh!!! how you doing? You know I am, your kids gotta be about the same age? Mine will be 15 soon.

Yes....all because of the boy's sister's uncle's niece had allowed his thoughts to run unchecked and boom....

Im thinking her house burned from negative believing...thus the fire engine....uhhh....nevermind....

Crazy thing is these are all valid points of consideration that should be welcomed in a legitimate discussion. The irritating part is that even most "long standing Christians" tend to be judgmental towards others who are looking for answers. I've dealt with similar attitudes from people on other topics.

I really think that if old empty head had stayed outside in a flooded tent he would have understood. I get the distinct impression that he always lead from the rear and really didn't experience very much of what he talked about. Im wasnt around when he was alive and came into TWI during the martindale years and honestly, I probably would have been ostrascized because theres no way Im travelling to a crap bag farm and sleeping in a tent in a field for two weeks...lol

I totally understand this statement to the core of my soul. That's how I learned the law of believing is complete BS (thats not the only topic but it's the one that took me over the top) - I put it to the test and I can say before God with an open heart that I had complete faith and as a result of believing some complete BS that was packaged as "biblical" I damn near wound up in an early grave. So yeah, we agree completely. I think what people need to understand is when people lose faith (and it happens) there's a lot of deep hurt that goes along with it. I know because I lived it. The last things that anyone needs is to feel judged by their fellow humans because of it, because that only adds to the hurt. Again, I know because I've lived it.

TLC, this in no way is directed at you and I'm doing my best to stay out of the fray. I think one of the things I've learned to value the most since leaving TWI 13 years ago is people have the God given freedom to believe what they want to believe. Personally, I had several years where I simply was not an active Christian and spent most of my time in bars either working on getting drunk or maintaining my drunkeness. Honestly, I simply didn't care anylonger about anything related to the Bible, Jesus Christ, God, etc. Yes, I allowed TWI as an excuse in my life to go down that road, and not that they sent me there - that was my choice. Honestly, I used to hide who I was from people who didn't know me when I was way corps and all that jazz. I was ashamed of the fact that I got sold out to an abusive cult when frankly I should have known better. As time went on I totally quit drinking, I won't touch even a drop, and I went straight back into the Bible with a fresh perspective. I can honestly say that I have a great relationship with God and am learning what it means to follow Jesus Christ. Now. Heres my point. Not everyone is going to go my route, and hopefully not since I did spend several years on a self-destructive binge. Whether or not people believe what I do, or live the way I do, no longer matters to me. I simply respect the God given freedom that God gave us to choose what we believe and why, and I've learned to respect others boundaries and do my best to not cross them. Obviously I am excited to work and share scripture again or I never would have put the work into the article I posted. I really enjoyed doing the homework, and I'm just simply sharing what I am learning and living so I can hear other's perspectives and learn. So whether or not someone was a Christian and no longer is doesn't matter to me. It's simply not my place to judge. One thing I do know is that the Lord Jesus Christ draws people to God and what route folks take to get there isn't my business. My job is to simply love people and help them out in life the best I am able without regard for any potential gain on my part. Some of you may disagree with my point of view and I completely respect that, let's just be respectful and help each other out. Peace!

YES!! They had to redefine one of the key concepts in the entire scriptural canon - faith. And it's just that simple. Have faith in God. We were taught to have faith in our faith, or to trust our own believing...talk about circular logic. Circular logic works because it works ya know.

Since you mentioned it, the way international and victor paul wierwille sure seem to put a lot of limitations on God Almighty! The entilre idea that God can only communicate with what he is --- spirit --- sure seems like some serious stupidity on the outside looking in. And they like coming up with wierdness....for example....the spirit of God is the light of God in concretion --- wtf is that exactly? And I bet you a dollar to a dime that all this non-sense is still taught at the advanced class.

Thanks! One thing for sure...the LOB didn't originate in the Bible.

I suspect he alway did.

Maybe this needs to be moved to doctrinal. At the heart of the way international's deception is the law of believing. John Juedes and other's have done a lot of work on the topic and there certainly are many threads here. I wrote this article and thought I would put it out there for discussion. I'm still Christian so it's written from a Christian perspective. Have at it and I will follow along. https://cloud.disroot.org/s/o2n6WBFDT3BNnSQ

That would likely go something very simillar to this satirical version below. "I mean, why wouldn't Joe the new guy want to finish Reverend Martindale's class? It's God's Word for our day and time! Did you string the edges of the tables during setup? What? You have Eddie on coordinating the setup crew? You do know he hasn't abundantly shared since he lost his job? I mean how can you expext God to bless you if you have a hard, ungiving heart. You need to confront Eddie!"

This is 100% true. Even though HQ produces class materials (amply paid for by the class fee I might add) the classes themselves are absorbed by the field corps. Probably an obvious exception would be room rental and such - but that room rental stuff is rare. The field corps know to move to places that have a community type clubhouse for running classes, branch/limb/region meetings. So, literally most everything comes out of a guy's pockets who is working 40 hours a week, supporting a family, already giving 15% or more of his income to the way international....the make you give until it breaks a person.

That double standard is ingrained into the directors. Let's face it. Every director currently on the board has worked lower tier jobs in TWI and they know the field leadership regularly go out of pocket to cover ministry expenses. They've all been branch coordinators/fellowship coordinators. They know fuil well about the double standard and appearantly they like it. Any one of them Bill, Vern, John, could set a directive that all the field corps are required to submit expense reimbursement forms for their cost over runs on ministry business. They don't and they won't. On the field it's so screwy. More times than not, when branch coordinators ask for gas reimbursement their limb guy tells them something like "just consider it abundant sharing". I've heard it so many many times from branch, and even limb coordinators. The field guys are afraid to do much more than what they are expected to do and most of them would never dream of rocking the boat by daring to ask for reimbursements. Many of the staff assignments are gravy compared to life in a field assignment and most all of them know it. The directors demand special treatment, so their hypocrosy knows no bounds. Christ really is absent for them and in his place is a big image of VPW. You know, that guy that had them play hail to the chief when he entered a room?

Oh here's something totally new...not! johniam takes over a thread on staff with his usual craziness.

Yep, and thats total BS. That is probably based on the law of believing, which traces it's roots back to the the new thought metaphysics movement made popular by Phineas Parkhurst Quimby then traces to Mary Eddy Baker (Christian Science Founder) and then to E.W. Kenyon and then to Wierwille. If you wannta get into it on this false doctrine then lets head over to doctrinal. But that quote "Fear ruins more men's ministry than anything else" is BS. You wanna know what likely ruings more men's ministries? Love of money, raw lust, and greed. If fear were such an all emcompassing factor that can just ruin lives then why wasn't it listed in the bible where the devil tempted Jesus? - Create bread out of stones to relieve his own hunger (not keeping God as his number one source of sustenance) - Leap from a pinnacle and rely on angels to break his fall. (tempting God, when God cannot be tempted) - Kneel before Satan in return for all the kingdoms of the world. (worship the devil and serve him) Anywho, I'm skating in thin ice here and don't want to derail this topic with doctrinal issues. I am happy to debate the law of believing in-depth. It's already been covered on GSC to the max anyway.

They started selling all the benefits that used to be free. Meal plans with food services, way styles charges, rent, etc. Your math is right on the money with salary. As presidents cabinet I made around $21,000 a year. I made just enough to get medicaid for my child when their cheesy insurance plan capped out at $10,000 for a lifetime max. They are shamelessly cheap.

No, when Craig was ousted he was really ousted. Rosalie was firmly in control all the years she was on the BOD and the silent partner was Donna Martindale. With Rosalie gone they probably just marginalized Donna and she may have lost her influence. Rosalie was voted off the board by Vern, Bill, and John with Vern leading the charge. I mean no offence by what I am about to say to you: You are delusional if you think they will ever want your help. The do not and they will not. They are a closed corporation who only promote from the ranks of the way corps and they are extremely political amongst themselves, especially at the cabinet, officer, director level. They have it all figured out and are extremely arrogant even to the point of demanding special treatment on the most insignificant matters. I was told once by John Rupp that there was YEARS of accumulated wisdom at the diretor level. Im sure a lot of that wisdom comes from their attorneys, BakerHostettler. Rosalie kept herself in the background mostly because she was trying to lose the stigma of the way international being a cult. She started delegating teaching and other public responsibilites because one of the main aspects of a cult is having a central, charismatic leader. She certainly wasn't charismatic by nature and was boring as dry white toast when she spoke publicly, but that's a different matter altogether. Make no mistake, until she was voted off the board she was in charge, and donna was right there with her. On another note, if it werent for the Allen, and other lawsuits that happened around the year 2000 there would have been no changes. Basically an abusive cult got sued by a ....ed off husband who had his wife victimized by a sexual predator - lloyd craig martindale who learned the tricks of the trade from vistor paul wierwille. In response to the Allen lawsuit, which would have put them out of existance if they hadn't quietly settled...aka...gave them a large sum of money to go away...the way international changed it' many of it's practices as they pertain to paid staff to match human resource and other applicable laws. You know, things like not taking abundant sharing money and spending it for personal use, the board of directors personal use. Not only that but they quit that whole private innurement thing where they were using money/resources that was supposed to be devoted to charitable purposes and using it for private purposes. One example is Rosalie started actually paying to have the grounds department cut her grass instead of having them do it for free. They grudgingly made all the changes they had to for survival. So if you would like to think that you can help them at some point, that certainly is your privelege.

Since Obama care Im not sure. It kicked in after your first year on staff back in 2008.

Well, I cant say what it is now but in 2008 they basically paid minumum wage and them mandated 6 hours overtime paid at time and a half. They called this "getting paid a salary based on an hourly rate. Yes to the part time for older staff. and my deductible was $3,000 but the policy with medical mutual had a $10,000 lifetime max.

You have to appreciate the irony. When I was assigned to staff as way corps there were around 400 or so staff and many of them under the age of 30. A group of staff kids went over to grand lake in st marys and got drunk except one of the kids who was out getting hammered was T!m M@rtind@le. So they fired all the staff kids involved and didn't do anything to Tim except take his name off his door in founders hall, except it was still his room when he was home on weekends and away from college. So word got out and young people quit coming to work on staff except for a very few. Rosalie couldnt stand the younger staff because they were trouble makers in her eyes. She even came up with a youung adult fellowship and made sure it was scheduled on Friday nights so the "young people stuff" could be kept to a minimum. Now Rosalie is weaving baskets over at foxhaven and they have a bunch of new young faces. I hope these kids don't get screwed over and hurt in the end but that's likely as soon as any of them step out of line or come up sith some new research, etc.

Yeah that glazed over stepford wives look is common with those at the top. Those on the outside never see the real people behind all the fakery. They actually teach people in their videos to smile as big as they can so people can see the abundant life they are living. Fake and scripted, and notice they are putting young ministry kids up front now. Most all of the kids who get promoted are reverend and mrs so and so's child. Nepotism anyone? But heck, thats about all they really have to draw from anymore. Rosalie finished off Craigs work of running everyone off that potentially had a backbone. Anywho.

I can only take an educated guess here. As far as I know, in the US churches do not have to file for 501-c3 tax exempt status but most do, and in the case of TWI, wierwille incorporated them as The Way Inc. back in 1957 or somehwere in there. The board of directors requirements all stem from Ohio state law as it pertains to corporations. It used to be that corporations in Ohio were required to have a board of trustees and that verbage was changed to board of directors sometime around the year 2000. If anyone has more complete information I welcome it because I am shooting from the hip. Thanks!