OldSkool

To be clear, I am not either. I like Rod Stewart and respect him as an accomplished artist. The Family also is well written and I like the music. It's catchy. My problem is with the concept and the lyrics being just out of touch. For God's sake we are at the tail end of a pandemic and facing a conflict that could potentially ignite WW3....Im sure most people's problems out here across the world today are far greater than having a bad day at work and needing to talk about it. I digress. But yes, to reiterate, the song has a lot of potential and is very catchy and well written.

Yes indeed. Now add this little tidbit of information to the equation. The directors use the sunday teahing service to address problems they feel are relevant to the expansion of the way international, etc. For example, classes aren't running in Rev. Dude's branch (sorry Big Lebowski...lol) -- that's a problem. So it's very likely that Rev. Dude's limb guy will have him teach outreach to address the problem. Now let's say that classes aren't running in several branches and it is identified as a larger problem. So the directors do would likely confront all the way corps and apply mass downward pressure for results and (you know field way corps are working sales positions) start "teaching" to correct the problem. Whenever there is a problem then you teach "the Word" to rectify the problem - that's a given with them. So I figured out when I was cabinet (because I would hear the problems in the cabinet meetings) that the problems will be addressed in a teaching somewhere - Way Mag, AC Special, etc, etc. If it's a larger problem, like the way international shrinking, then you can darn well bet that they will set the STS topics to address that problem. So when I heard that cheesy lyrincs to a otherwise nicely aranged, and well written song, I drew the conclusion that they are having lackluster attendance at fellowships and need to pep talk folks on the benefits of attending. Yeah, maybe I'm a bit cynical, but this is how they operated when I was there, and I doubt it has changed.

I enjoyed reading along, my friend. I bet you have some really cools sounding music. Catering to fans expectations is really common. I think TWI is pigeon holed in that category. You know what to expect when you take in a STS. It's the same basic format for years now. I do give credit where it is due. Their services are polished to the hilt, complete with ear to ear smiles for all the musical performers. But they don't look at music as praise and worship. To the way, way productions is to prepare the audience to receive the teaching that is to follow. I have to admit I really have no idea what in the heck that means. Careful on that Rod Stewart/Way Prod. comparison. I caught an earbug off that. When I first pulled up Rod Stewart and compared to the way productions piece I couldn't shake the melody for a few days...ear bug!

Im not really the same either. I still play my guitar but lack basic motivation, really, it's not fun to me anylonger like it used to be. Not sure I can blame TWI but I think my past experiences in TWI and playing music for them is a contributing factor for sure.

First off, that really sucks. I had similar experiences when I was in residence with being recruited to play guitar for the in-rez way productions group (I messed up and took a guitar in residence) and being micromanaged but egads.....being ripped in front of a group over something you wrote is awful. It's hard enoug for an artist to share what they make at times, but to be publicly shamed by some @$$hat. Yeah not cool. I think this comes about by being managed by zealous non-musical types. Music is art, inspiration and creativity. That can really only be encouraged, not micromanaged. As soon as you take the joy of creativity out of the equation, it's a wrap. I fully understand there is a lot of discipline that goes with writing music, practice, patience, etc - not all fun and games - it's work. But if you squash people creativity then at best you get studio muscicians going through a rote performance. I feel that has happened to way productions a loooong time before I came around in the 90s. Also, one of my biggest pet peeves with these guys is the thinking that the lyrics are the most important part of the song. So when they mix the music, whether live or recording, they ALWAYS overshadow the band with the cheezy foot lyrics. They say that the lyrics are the most important part because they are singing God's word....yeah....ok. T-bone, I think we are similar in how we approach song writing. As a lead guitarist I would come up with an arrangement and then lay a lot of lead type work over the rhythm to add some "color" to the arragngement. Of course leaving room for lyrics. My lead work during verses mostly consists of alternate chord arrangements, triads, and of course a tasty riff here and there to emphasize parts of the lyrics. TWI allows for none of that. I managed to get that off in-residence because I would just start adding intricate guitar work over the rhythm and everyone loved it. However, if you try to explain to them in advance what you want to do then it get's shut down....Im rambling a bit...but I think I make some kind of sense...somewhere...somehow...lol

Since leaving TWI I have been to quite a few churches from all walks of life. Most predominatly, African American churches that I've been to call their "Way Productions" praise and worship. I've seen some really inspiring performances ranging from interpretive dance to various size bands and styles of music. Im not pointing out way productions to be a jerk and rip on people who otherwise mean well in their efforts. Im putting it on here because instead of singing praises to the Lord they reinforce the cult liffestyle and cult isolation with their music. If you pay attention to way production lyrics the cult lifestyle reinforcement becomes really clear. The song that I posted just happens to be a shining example of what I am talking about. Im reminded of a vocal section from an older way productions song from the late 90s. Now I have heard a limited amount of old way productions from Pressed Down, and some others where I don't remember the group names. At one time they really had some good talent and a decent product so to speak. I think what happened to way productions (in part) is that it was micro-managed for so long by Wierwille, Craig, Rosalie, etc. Micromanaged by NON-MUSICIANS for so long that it's just gotten worse and worse over the years. The directors heavily micromanage anything coming out of the auditorium and that is directly related to the Allen lawsuit and efforts to remain lawsuit proof. They do not want anything said or sung that could be used in court. Anywho, the directors are largely out of touch with whats going on outside of TWI's microcosm and it shows in their music productions and teachings. Again, I'm not trying to be a butthole here either, there's substance to what I am pointing out. Also I am an accomplished musician in my own right. Been playing guitar since I was 12 (Ill be 50 next year), have played professionally when I was much younger, have played multiple styles, been to an accredited music school with a jazz based curriculim. But hey!...what do I know...lol

YES!! I noticed that too.

Dude....the main opening riff and subsequent verses are heavily inspired by Rod Stewart.

https://www.theway.org/online-resources/multimedia/the-family-music-video/ Will somebody please tell these guys that this is just awful....really....

These are excellent points and I really appreciate the addition to my Clifnotes earlier. I feel as you do WW, they knew they were going to get marked and avoided (it's a given) and already had plans in MOTION to start a new splinter. So they staged a dog and pony show to somehow give legitimacy to their efforts and now they can say the confronted Rosalie, etc. I believe that it was never about R/R the way international. It was about doing things they way they wanted but keeping their positions from money donating followers. May sound harsh, but I know quite a few of their leaders personally and worked with them when I was cabinet. The shoe may not fit everyone, but it fits who it fits.

Great point and I appreciate the feedback! I was a little wordy and could have been more concise. I did mean to say it that way to emphasize the need for adoration by some way corps. So while way corps are safe and free to leave at anytime, many of them (from my own personal relationships and from being way corps) will not leave because they will "lose their precious" - and that is a position of authority with an audience. So for a group of them to all leave at once and start a new splinter; they safeguarded their positions.

Well, the dissent had been building for years. Most of the way corps who left would not have had the guts to bail on their own. I did that in 2008 and was happy with obscurity! Most way corps still crave a lectern and some people to admire them and that they can boss around. The exodus actually started with an advanced class grad who mailed an anon. letter to Rosie the RIveter enumerating many typical grievances. Same ole same ole: STS sucks, way mag sucks, everyone is micromanaged, etc. However, Rosie's goofy a$$ thought the letter came from one of her very loyal cabinet men that I won't name. She put him through holy heck for no reason at all. Raked this man over the coals really bad. Other letters followed from a group of way corps and I guess the damn of dissent broke from there. So as time went Rosie, Rupp, and the gang started calling in corps who had signed the subsequent letter(s) of dissent, of course seperated married couples from one another, and interrogated them. They marked and avoided a bunch of corps during this time, which again, was extremely stupid for them since they don't have that many corps to go around any more. A lot of your average followers of course followed their favorite way corps over to revival and restoration. I went to a couple fellowships over in Indy at the urging of a former friend. They were typical twig fellowship formats from the days of old with more room for people to express themselves and such, but same doctrinal package that wierwille pieced together. Same errors, etc. I never went back and that was at least four years ago. As to what took them so long? Most didn't have the guts to push the envelope on their own but when others started doing it the whole gang jumped in when they felt safe that they could remain relevant to somebody. That's my opinion, but Im pretty sure it's fact based on a broad scale.

Cause its pure BS.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. TWI had us chasing red dots with their proven ministry research line. To them any subject they considered "proven" was above question. That's pure BS to me, if something is truly proven then it should stand to question and scrutiny no matter when and where they occur.

Yessir. Ive tried waking people in TWI up since I left in 2008. It would literally take Martin Luther nailing a new 95 thesis to the auditorium door for most of those that remain.

Yes!! That's part of the bait and switch they pull. We all know how it goes --- You want to take this class that will tell you how to enjoy reading the Bible?....Good then give me $100 bucks and wait until we register enough people to run a class. Meanwhile --- Joe believer has many questions and the canned answer...drumroll....wait for the class!! By the time you get the class your braincells are swimming in information overload while the most perinant questions usually go unanswered and all the while we were pushed into working for TWI. Anywho....I digress

Yes. Erasmus used 6 or so manuscripts out of thousands to arrive at the Textus Receptus, a phrase that was coined by contemparies...I guess that all fell flat with the release of the Stephanus Text in the 1500s. However, it is said of the majority texts that they are in agreement 99.9% of the time whereas W/H codex vaticanus and sinaticus have 3600 disagreements between then in the gospels alone. Ill check out the video you posted. Thanks! A former fundamentalist who is undecided on what he is. Christian, but a searching one...not a researching one...lol...I'm sure a lot of labels fit but I am really just wanting to make some sense out of all of this. And I think more importantly, Penworks answered one of my burning questions: Yes TWI knew there was a history of our bible and decided not to pursue it or teach it for whatever reasons. I think questionable reasons at that. I think VPW cherrypicked what floated his fancy and claimed his cherries were from the first century and nobody had eaten them since until he plated them for our consumption.

Thanks!!

Yeah, I don't know why it's set up the way that it is. I had to disable my VPN to watch it on computer. The Great Bible Hoax Of 1881: Is The Text Mistranslated? | Bridge To Babylon | Parable

Awesome post! I will respond to the points on the video shortly. It would be easy to set up a straw man on this Duperron guy, I appreciate you guys not doing that. I know very little of him, do not endorse him, and couldn't find any information on him when I spent a few days trying to figure out who in the heck he is and who he is with. Fruitless search, but obviously from his writings he smacks of fundamentalism. He advocates only reading the king james version and not checking the underlying greek. There are many ponits wher I disagree with this guy. But such is Christendom and such is the way many of us used to be. With that said, the value of his book, to me at least, are the comparison tables he uses. As for conspiracies, the bible tells us that people will conspire to corrupt the truth. Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive There are people who conspire to commit all kinds of unsavory actions all throughout history into the present day.

Thanks!!! First off, the entire concept of biblical research is a sales schtik IMO. I dropped that entire endeavor a long time ago. Anymore, I am simply sorting out my beliefs and yes I remain Christian, so the Bible is my default standard for Christian doctrine. I happened across the video and book quite by accident. There are a lot of other sources out there. The book definately reeks of fundamentalism, but I included it because it has some decent side by side comparisons of altered verses. The video is a decent presentation and interviews scholars and such who seem to be in the know. Im not even sure what to do with the information yet. My thinking is that if me, being a layman can find this material, then surely those who man the helm of a so called "biblical research ministry" know it exists and either choose to ignore it for their own selfish gain and positions or are just plain ignorant that this controversy exists - either way - incompetance! The critical greek text (Westcott and Hort) is highly suspect, heavily edited, and the codex vaticanus and codex sinaticus disagree with each other over and over again. The textus receptus has around 5200 manuscripts (for lack of a better word) and they are largely in agreement with one another, even though there are disagreements and errors as well. So, if you really do biblical research then this to me would be a major issue to resolve to make sure you are as accurate as possible. My entire point with this post was answered by Penworks, and thanks!! They knew there was something there to study but shut it down for whatever reason. I think the reason they shut it down is because they didn't want to redact their co called research books. Also, Penworks, thanks for the links! I will read all of them in depth.

Yeah, Im not really concerned with the romantiscized notion of perfection from imperfect people. Im interested in how a biblical research ministry missed a gigantic controversy centered around the textus receptus and the critical greek texts. Wouldn't you think a biblical research ministry should know about such matters? But even taking it a step further, was this common knowledge in the research department? Im cool on the red dot...my pomeranian won't chase it...lol

Well, there was a mass another mass exodus around 2016 - Lookup Revival and Restoration on the forums here if you aren't familiar with what happened. I left in 2008, and even back then their attendance numbers were dismal across the board. Rosalie bored everyone to death with her tight control of the STS/way mag, assigned (irrelevant) topics, and sript reading based presentations. There was a lot of quiet dissent when I was there. Many of the (then) younger generation had the attitude that Rosalie would die off eventually and the younger generation would correct it all. Ha!! So really, since wierwill passed, TWI has done everything it could to push most people out of TWI. So, I would lean towards the religious version of the death of stalin in this case. Judging from their current STS presentations they are still script reading with a new set and the teacher actually walks away from the lectern on occasion.

Since leaving TWI, I have reconsidered everything I believe and especially what I was taught by TWI. Some things have fallen off my radar as simply lies put out by VPW and others, whether they knew they were pushing lies or not - a lie is a lie. The law of believing comes to mind on this topic. However, I am Christian and I have been in the habit of taking my beliefs to scripture to see if those beliefs stand. During this process, I started digging into Church history and the history of how our modern day Bibles came to be. And what I found is shocking to say the least. With the way international supposedly being a biblical research ministry, wouldn't they know? Yah...I get it....VPW's schtik was biblical research and actual biblical research from TWI is questionable at best. https://d3hgrlq6yacptf.cloudfront.net/5f4766d57c3ad/content/pages/documents/1449059093.pdf Please take a few minutes to peruse the book at the above link. Im not looking to get into a doctrinal discussion but rather Im reaching out to any former research heads, etc, as to why this information was never made public from a biblical reasearch ministry? Thanks for any feedback. For those of you with more time, the following link is very informative and really hits the subject from all angles.

They havent been able to fill the auditorium in a very long time. When there is a big event (anniversary, pentecost, etc.) they plan well in advance for out of state people to attend and even goto the extent of busing people in if enough people want to make the trek. When I was on staff they really had trouble filling more than the forst three rows and many of them were staffers happen to not be working for the STS. They have ran off so many people over the years that they are really hurting for attendance. Not to mention the most recent (2016?) purge of the way corps's ranks. They are so hard up for leadership that they are calling people who were dropped from the corps and inviting them back...not sure how many suckers they have found just yet. So this is my verbose way of saying that you are very likely correct in saying that the crowd is about the size of a packed liviing room.