OldSkool

Same here. I thought about it for a nanosecond...I did read that it was a personal injury/tort matter. Back to Pete...

No, but thanks for making me aware that there is a case. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/36457014/Vozzo_v_The_Way_International_et_al https://cases.justia.com/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2020cv08026/545189/66/0.pdf https://cases.justia.com/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2020cv08026/545189/65/0.pdf https://dockets.justia.com/docket/new-york/nysdce/1:2020cv08026/545189

Im sure you are right on the money.

Branching off of Bolsheviks post: And more specifically from here in that thread: The way international has a long history of targeting certain people and harrasing them into compliance with TWI mandates or pushing them to mark and avoid status. I have personally witnessed the following actions during my time in the way international, both on the field, at gunnison, or HQ: Kicking new people out of foundational classes for being literally a minute late. And of course they don't refund the 100 bucks. confronting people for attending another church or offshoot group. Confronting people for interacting with locals from New Knoxville, New Bremen, etc and planning events without HQ permission Harassing people for not abundant sharing Harassing people coming back on grounds late at night. It was routine for safety to lock the gates and lock founders hall so anyone coming home late would have to call safety for entrance and of course that could go south quick. Heck, I saw one person in my fellowship endure a shouting style confrontation because he messed up the worship manifestations. I could go on but I thought I would put this out here to see where it goes. I kinda think that there is less harrassment now for staff due to human resource laws vs being your garden variety field way follower.

That sucks. You have had a tough way to go. Ive never quite understood how people who call themselves Christian can target an individual and break them down. Which makes sense, because there is nothing Christ like with this behavior and of course Christianity gets the blame. And it's exmaples like yours that shows that TWI is an abusive cult because the behaviour you call out is common in the ranks of the way corps and a lot of AC grads to garden variety followers of TWI. Not the first time I have seen someone targeted in my time in TWI so know that you aren't the only one and it is a common practice with these yay whos.

Well...personally, that's what I hope to accomplish. I have and will hang every shred of the way international's dirty laundry out for the general public to see. Why?...because I have an ax to grind? No....I have actually forgiven the way international and it's various members of the board a long time ago. It took some time and it wasn't easy but I have forgiven them. I post here to expose the way international because I was exposed to it. If I hide it then I am as culpable as the ones who comitted the evils. I would feel differently if TWI had been open and honest about what happened but they coudn't do that at the time because all of the top leadership were corrupt or knew of the corruption and followed along anyway. If TWI had owned the BS and publically repented and really changed the issues that were front and center I wouldn't even be here. As a ministry they have that responsibility to their followers. But I personally witnessed the board of directors do everything they could to cover it all up and make minor changes that gave the appearance of true repentance. That's just dishonest and if I don't expose it then I am right along with them because I was part of that group. I have asked for forgiveness for all things related to TWI that I personally felt convicted about after the fact. Anywho. Your posts have opened my eyes a bit, I must admit. So what you are saying is that people cornered you when you were in your teen years (or younger) and basically accused you of supporting or being a part of all the misdeeds that waydale (and GSC) aired out in the open? It's not a question to bait you into an argument. I have little else to say moving forward. We've been friends for over 20 years now and I am not about to sacrifice that bond for any reason.

http://web.archive.org/web/20011211140140/http://www.greasespotcafe.com/editorial/the-final-decree.htm This one took some work to find, but here is the final decree on the Allen Lawsuit and it proves that Rosalie knew of Martindale's affairs and that the way international was going to trial on four of the original six counts filed by the Allen's.

And the start of GSC: http://web.archive.org/web/20011129230710/http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/

GSC did and the originals can be found here: http://web.archive.org/web/20000510234811/http://www.waydale.com/main/docs-main.html

Here ya go! And they paid all that money for them to take waydale down and it's forever preserved on the good ole internet. http://web.archive.org/web/20000511203809/http://www.waydale.com/

BTW, and more importantly than anything I have posted extolling the virtues of waydale....I am truly sorry you had to deal with the experiences you mentioned. That's really awful. You deserve better my friend, much better.

Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated! On a side not, anyone reading along that thinks the out of court settlement between the way international and Paul Allen meant the way was not guilty as charged, or the charges were frivolous need look no further than the following link and quote.: (Schmitt is referring to Judge John D. Schmitt who presided over the case. Although he dismissed the entire case but upheld four of the most damning charges) https://www.culteducation.com/group/1289-general-information/8318-the-way-international-reaches-settlement-with-couple.html and for further reading: http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/sut_sxinterogrev.htm

Waydale had a HUGE effect on the way international. The trustees (before they started calling themselves directors) wanted very much for Paul Allen to disappear off the face of the planet. When he started waydale a huge expose of how TWI really works came pouring out and it was mostly putrid fruit. The directors love secrecy...why? Because their works are evil and they do not want how they really operate to come out in the open. Except now, thank to waydale/gsc it has. When the way international SETTLED out of court...yes...they basically gave the Allen's money to go away....grease spot cafe was born out of waydale. Why? Because as a condition of the settlement the Allens agreed to shut waydale down. Yes...the directors paid a huge sum of money to keep the truth from public record, shut down waydale, and for the Allens to go away. None of that would have ever happened when it did without waydale. I saw first hand how badly the directors were scrambling to conceal the truth. If you connect the dots...between lawyer fees, out of court settlements, etc....the way international spent millions over the martindale/Allen affair. Hows that for your abundant sharing at work? I was at HQ when Rosalie announced at the noon meal that they had settled the court case. I distinctly remember sitting there at my table thinking.,..SETTLED...WTF? Everyone around me was doing a standing ovation and many people were actually teary eyed that there was no more court case to worry about and the adversary had been defeated. I was so ticked they settled because to me it was an admission of guilt and a gross misappropriation of donations sent in by followers. This moment was really the fulcrum of me going from a starry eyed cult leader to waking the eff up to the truth that TWI's is an abusive cult. Waydale and Grease spot are responsible for exposing the belly of the beast. I would have never started posting here except I know first hand the impact these websites have had on TWI. Rosalie still had J0hn L!nder printing out GSC forums for her to read on a daily basis...and this was in 2008. She wouldnt put a computer in her office so she had Linder print out hardcopies. Why? They are looking for anything threatining or illegal where they can try and have GSC shut down. As you can see...that's an epic fail.

Thats a really good point. I think that vpw's followers pull as many logic fallacies as they can to avoid tackling the issues we discuss here on GSC. That VPW was a plagaraist, adulterer, false prophet, liar, etc. I can think of no scripture ever that balances out someone's evil deeds by the good they may do somewhere along the way. To me it sound like a straw man argument. Instead of dealing with the issues we discuss here on GSC someone comes along and raises the riducoulous argument that we say that he was only a con-man and there was nothing else to him. Then they attack that fake issue and avoid the real issues. Anywho.

Personally, I have never said that or believed that in any sort of way. Obviously, there was more to VPW than being a con-man although the fact that he was a con man tainted his whole character.

Ill readily admit I was a gigantic jerk up until about the year 2000. I followed the example of others who had been around longer than me and were way corps. Not everybody is a jerk. I actually held the Bible in higher esteem than anything way leadership had to say. And that started on my apprentice year, the year 2000. Personally, I did everything in my power to treat people with love and respect. I wasn't perfect at it and I probably stepped on a few toes along the way, but if someone said something to me I would be as meek as possible to them and do all I could to apologize for my faults. My main concern to this day is standing approved before God and not men.

Thank God you didn't damage the portico paver. They would have taken you to the city gates and gotten you stoned.

I have no earthly idea. With that said, it never ceases to amaze me the absolute BS surrounding VPW. No matter what context he was always the greates. Heck, he even tried to build his own genealogy with his Wierwille family lineage tracing back to the Hugenots, as if he's in a special bloodline where deep spiritual ministries run in the family. VPW was a master at leading people to think the he was some great man of God. I think many times he didn't come out and actually say what he wanted but led people to draw the conclusions he wanted them to. He was dishonest to the core of his soul.

Ahhh...young Padawan....you are spiritual enough to master blades of grass but you have yet to master the snow shovel to the degree that you can catch the snow flakes with your shovel before they hit the sidewalk. A true master baster has developed the ability to lean against the shovel, catch flakes, and sling them neatly into a pile so nobody ever slips on the sidewalk while entering the OSC or Auditorium.

Feelings come and go --- whatever the heck does that even mean. Stating the obvious. My dog comes and goes too...in and out the back door heading out to the backyard...lol Just renew your mind. --- da fuq? The love of God thinketh no evil -- scripture quote pulled comletely out of context and used as a battering ram against dissenters. Wierwille is a plagarist...uh uh...you are thining evil.... I have no friends when it comes to “The Word”.-- Whatever that means. I think thats fair though. VPW really had no friends anyway....just followers. Even his board of trustees were there to rubberstamp. He had no friends on the motorcoach either...just victims. ,,,I could keep going but will spare everyone my sarcastic humor...lol

I really like that. I always hated that Good, better, best crap. It's one thing to strive for excellence and enjoy the pursuit by the work you produce. But for nothing to ever be good enough...yeahhh...my big butt is striving for mediocrity!!

No...he was a dumb@$$ right up until the end.

He called the law of believing Christian witchcraft. And he was right. He held on to administrations and many other doctrinal points from TWI and they changed a lot of other points to be more in line with scripture. it was an effort, I can admit that. However, I will not judge the man or his works...that job belongs to the Lord on that day. I am not directing this at John Lynn or his memory. Twi and most all offshoots cannot be honest with scripture. They are vested in their error and their livlihoods depend on it. They can't shake loose the fact that they love to be adored of men and followed as if they themselves were some great ones. They are vested in their lies. On the other hand, I bit the bullet and completely repudiated the way international and all things associated with them. At one point I had zero concern for anything Christian or Biblical. I have since decided that I will not abandon my faith because of false prophets and false ministries. However, the Berean mindset rules my day. I take everything to scripture to see if those things are so. Not only that but tracking doctrines through Church history is very insightful. For example: Diispensationalism or administrations did not exist in mainstream Christian theology before the 1800s. It was peddled by John Nelson Darby, who was a known occultist, and incorporated into the Scofield reference Bible and Cyrus Scofield was an occultist as well, a charlatan, crook, and was tied into illuminiati money families through the Lotus Club in Manhattan where he lived for years. Rockefellers, Morgans, etc. Here is a link to an article I wrote on law of believing. How I came to write it is humorous really. I was asked to write it by someone who left TWI and started their own actual Church. He rejected it but never said why. My work is not proven ministry research or even above reproach. I want to learn more, I want holes poked in it, I want to talk it over and enjoy other's perspectives. But...I digress. https://cloud.disroot.org/s/o2n6WBFDT3BNnSQ

This is true. John Lynn was the biggest proponent of not throwing out the baby with the water. As intelligent as he was, if he had looked far enough beyond the bathroom he would have seen that many of TWI major doctrinal points are in serious error. Administrations, man of God crap, way corps making lifetime commitments, law of believing, the whole absent Christ spiel...I have literally taken everything I ever believed from TWI and did my own homework to the point that I have been able to not only identify what is in error, but also when the error was conceived and by whom. Wierwille is in a long list of false prophets and prosperity gospel preachers from Phineas Parkhurst Quimby to EW Kenyon to Kenneth Copeland to VP Wierwille. Name it and claim it. Abundant life crap. Jesus Christ did not die and rise again so we could have stuff. It was to redeem mankind from the corrupt sin nature and reunite us with God. I have never trusted God more and have never had a more rich relationship with God and with Jesus Christ. I am at total peace.

Man o man. You just helped me put quite a few things in perspective. Rocky mentioned his way corps training and how he is still working to recover from that mess. It was in the way corps training that I learned to be extremely critical of myself. Nothing I did was ever good enough, it always had to be better. When I could no longer carry on appearnances and my outer shell began to crack - that's when I hated myself the most. I hated myself so bad that I was suicudal and almost successful. This was in 2017. I hated myself for feeling the way I did. I hated myself for drinking to numb it out. I hated myself because I couldn't stop drinking and desperately wanted to. I hated myself because I thought I knew better and yet could no longer live up to the cult cliches and quotes that are so prevelant in TWI. Really it's having a form of godliness but denying the power therof. It was polishing the flesh with no power to conclude the old man dead and press into the spirit. TWI taught me to hate myself.