OldSkool

YW!!

This is a great thread...thanks Rocky! I would encourage anyone leaving TWI for any reason (whether M/A or leaving on your own) to understand that you are dealing with a huge loss in your life. Loss of friends, loss of family for some, loss of community, etc. Then there is the feeling that God doesn't exist outside of TWI and there is nothing better outside of TWI...and nothing could be further from the truth. Familiarize yourself with the 5 stages of grief...because you will be living through them. - denial - anger - bargaining - depression - acceptance Acceptance is your goal. I stayed on a spin cycle of the first four points without ever getting to acceptance until I did 16 weeks of counseling, even then it took a lot of time. Not everyone needs to do that but it helps. I encourage people to seek help because I didn't know I needed any help after leaving TWI and I needed a lot of help. Don't ignore the fact that you are departing an abusive cult who uses psychological ploys to keep followers under their thumb.

They feel since God is perfect that whomever actually wrote the revelation down would have done so perfectly. Complete conjecture on their part.

Yeah...that part. I learned first hand about the old switcheroo in going from being on the field to headquarters. At HQ is where what they don't say on the field came out in full force because at HQ is where all the blind obedience is pushed on people almost like a pseudo boot camp for new staffers. My first years at HQ was awful. Why? Because they broke me down to the point that I learned to go along with the program. So yeah....what you said here really lives for me.

Dude...good catch. I can verify first hand that their own Way Styles documents specify the difference in Holy Spirit and holy spirit. Not only do they teach it in their classes, it's codified in Way Publications/Presidents Publications departments. Now...the real question is, as you stated, is this a typo or shift in doctrine?

Well...you have helped me significantly over the years with your posts and for that I thank you!

They still teach the same erroneous junk on tithe and abs. Never mind that tithing was to cover the levites for their temple service...I digress. They've toned down the spit in your direction thing...that was a Craig-ism. Don't get me wrong...that syrupy sweetness they have is fake and was Rosalies doing. They're still just as jaded under the hood....though they have waxed the outside the car up nicely....

Man...I rolled when I saw this. Awesomeness Tbone....lmao

Dude...that's potent.

YW!! Unfortunately, they haven't.

My apologies that my humor was lost in cyberspace. Sometimes things don't come across that great when they are posted. I feel you hit the nail on the head that Wierwille tried to explain something that has far deeper implications than he was able to teach or comprehend. I appreciate your insight. Cheers!

T-Bone and cman - thanks! I think I have a better understanding here. Wierwille is known for shamelessly plagairazing verious authors, stealing classes, etc. I think the word of God takes the place of the absent Christ garbage is telling and probably originated with Wierwille. I think the strict, regimented, fundamentalist view that Wierwille had lead him to make stupid statements such as this one. It's stupid because, as you noted T-bone: Vicster couldn't make it fit with his rigid mindset so he made up something that made it all make sense to him. He couldn't really understand spiritual matters in this case...could it be that this is an example of the natural man receives not the things of the spirit? Mr Lo Shanta obviosly faked speaking in tongues...so who really knows. For me this discussion has helped me get a better grasp on this garbage, even though I have denied that doctrine a long time ago. Cool discussion.

I agree. I reread what u posted and that makes sense.

Well, judging from my experiences at HQ and from reporting to the directors for a couple years, I would say the word of God is whatever the way international says it is. My 2 cents anyways.

I believe otherwise about the Bible, Jesus Christ, God. I respect your choice to believe as you do. Peace!

Im pulliing my logic from 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." Whatever form or function Jesus Christ currently has he is not in a flesh and bones body on the earth. In that sense - yes - he is absent. As the head of the Church and God's right hand man he has never been absent, even though Wierwille wanted him to be. I understand Im walking a tightrope here and don't wanna get into doctrinal issues here. And of course I posted this here because I am only interested in the origin of the word of God takes the place of the absent Christ. I have never heard that anywhere but TWI.

Absent is synanomous with missing. The Word of God takes the place of the missing Christ....yeah...thats in the book of Hezekiah. Im not being a smart alec to you cman. It's the most un-Christian --- "Christian" doctrine I think I've hears....welll....maybe next to all the women in the kingdom belong to the king. Christ is "absent" because his function, purpose, and ministries changed after the ascenscion. That makes him no less asccesible, if anything, more so now that he is seated at God's right hand, is the savior for mankind, head of the Church, second in command to God, etc..

I never heard it taught that way. It was always the word of God takes the place of the absent Christ. I was pretty deeply embedded so to speak. If it was an official doctrine in one of the classes I would have heard it. I had taken every single class they offered multiple times during my time in-residence. I also coordinated many classes for staff at HQ when I was assigned there as way corps.

ROFLMAO....uh....yes....I would have to say they at least tried.....

Thanks Mark! I enjoyed the read. Question: Was this the original doctrine? Present day (and with my involvement in TWI starting in 96 and ending in 2008) I have never heard that angle. I am assuming it's a progression of error. Obviously, we do not take the place of Christ, though we are his body, his ambassadors, etc, etc, on down the line. So am I correct in assuming the progression of error went from renewed mind believers taking Christ's place to the word of God taking the place of the absent Christ? Wierwille appearantly had a real problem with Jesus Christ as the head of the body....because obviously he tried to take the place of Christ in directing the affairs of the body of Christ in his fantasy land the way international is the body of Christ. I refer to him as the source of this error and his followers have taken the ball and ran with it.

That's a great point using the way international's own favorite section of scripture - it's Christ in you! Beyond that though. Check out the book of Acts. It's filled with people (of course primarily Peter and then Paul but also many others) who had interaction with the Lord Jesus Christ as he functioned as the head of the body and directed the affairs of the Church. Nothing has changed with this relationship. He is still head of the body and still directing the affairs of the church and so very much more. God has literally given all things into his hands. “…yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.” – 2 Corinthians 5:16 Christ is no longer what we know as "flesh and blood." He has been completely transformed at his resurection. To me it's a good example of Wierwille's fleshly mind trying to comprehend true spiritual matters...and appearantly he couldn't. That's telling. Wierwille was unable to lead people to a relationship with Jesus Christ because he didn't know him. He knew of him...but he didn't know him. And nobody can say he sidestepped Jesus Christ and went to God some other way. Those that try that route are called thiefs and robbers.

First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of the absent Christ. Damnable heresy all the way here. It would be worded better if they just told the truth: The way ministry takes the place of the real Jesus Christ. That holds true across the board for people in the way international. The directors act as the head of the body. The way ministry is considered by the way ministry "the functioning body of Christ"...the way corps stand in the gap....the only gap I have ever known about was the one that was put between God and his people by the sin nature. The real Jesus Christ stands in that gap as the way, the truth, and the life. Jesus Christ died for our sins...not the way international. I could keep going....does anyone have any idea whatsoever where this awful doctrine originated? I have never heard it outside the way ministry. Was this VPW's brainchild? To me this is a very anti-Christ doctrine. Nowhere is Christ ever called absent and nowhere is he replaced by anything. He has all the preeminance. Period. Jesus Christ is the chief corner stone and no other foundation can no man lay. I

This is so very true. I would take a blind guesstimate and say that the money they have made in the past 22 years or so would be at least a 7 digit number.

Great post! I zereod in on this one point because the whole idea that Wierwille is going to reveal some great "secret".....in hind sight I think the whole "secret" spiel was part of his con. He was peddling secret information....information that only he had since the apostles in the first century that is. His shell game is so glaringly obvious when you strip all the mystique surrounding his BS, made up persona of THE man of God...check it out though...self help gurus use the same sales pitch....the most glaringly obvious on that come to mind is The Secret by Rhonda Byrne where she peddles the law of believing under the guise of the law of attraction.