OldSkool

Gotcha covered...no worries....lol

Cause someone would say Beetlegeuse Beetlegeuse Beetlegeuse and BAM - it would pop back up in About the Way....

delete me. Thx.

From PFAL fifth impression 1976 -- The good ole days so nobody can say this version was not from the glorious "back when". In the introduction wierwille is clearly talking about material posessions as the intrepretation of the abundant life referenced in John 10:10. So right from the start I have to ask the question...did Christ minister, suffer, die, get resurerected, minister, ascend to Heaven and sit down at the right hand of God Almighty so we could get stuff? How did wierwille recognize that "secular world of non-Christians were manifesting a more abundant life than were members of the Church?" He never really says but we are left to infer that they had more stuff than Christians. Was this a problem for wierwille because he really, really, loved people? Or more likely he was living off donation given by members of his Church and he just wasn't gifted with enough stuff for his satisfaction? That's rhetorical btw. So...I am left to conclude from a few paragraphs from the introduction that if the Bible fails on one point the entire thing is rubbish. From that fundamentalist standard then if PFAL is God breathed then it cannot so much as fail on one point in it's agreement with scripture (nor contradict itself)or it becomes rubbish. Where you at Milke --

Amen!!! Im not familiar with limited inspiration theory. I appreciate the reference as I will dig into your comments here for my own personal study...thanks!

Mike, for the record, I have spent countless hours studying wierwille's books to a blatant fault. Now - I'm not on your level of trying to find occultic hidden meaning in those writings...I give you credit - you have me beat there. But....when I got involved in TWI I literally spent 4 to 5 hours per night studying his books, etc, etc...all things TWI. This went on for 5 years including 2 way disciple tenures. Then I went in residence where I spent two years straight studying around 35 to 40 hours a week. My study time in-residence includes most U of L tapes and most all of the old way corps teachings I had time to listen and they were all in the library at Gunnison. After graduating into the way corps I levelled off on my studies somewhat but still was doing about an hour or more a day. Yeah...Im credible. But you know what? There are other's here that are way more credible and experienced in all things twi than me...and you ignore them too. Mike...you poicking up on a pattern here? You ignore anything that doesnt fit your view of things. That's problematic there buddy. You know why they have shaken off the old wineskins baloney? Because the collaterals, et. al., have all been sanitized, heavily edited, and proof read half to death and back again in one gigantic, multi-year effort to hide the truth that wierwille plagairaized his materials. Can't have word for word copies from other books in way ministry publications, now can we? It was also very necessary to sanitize all the nutty comments, slander, libel, etc, stricke from the record. Don't wanna actually be liable in court for these things and definately don't wanna keep that cult label. I witnessed it first hand and was married to one of the editors that did the work...and we talked in great depth my friend, great depth.

Thanks. You may also enjoy the following...there's 29 interviews total and I havent been through them all...anywho: (BTW - I feel we should take the topic of KJV vs Other Versions to another thread if we wanna get deep into it and I welcome that. This is a newer topic of study for me and I wanna puch holes in my studies. T-Bone neither this parenthetical staement of mine nor the logic fallacy comment is pointed at you but out to anyone in general so we don't get too far off topic)

(Please deal with the material the link leads to and I will quote a little here -- no logic fallacies please) https://www.kjvtoday.com/read-bible-in-king-james-version/ But we should take wierwille's word that the Bible is unreliable without his so called Biblical research?

Most definately. the way international (and by default wierwille) loves(d) to come up with ways to limit God/Christ. Nowhere, and I mean nowhere ever, have I heard so many ways God can or can't do something. But the hypocrisy is glaring to those who want to think for two seconds about what the heck is going on. Example: By default any wierwille follower will express that the word says what it means and means what it says. That goofy statement leaves a person to draw the conclusion that the word = the Bible. Mike demonstrates for us what it really means. The word is what wierwille said it meant and where the Bible differs from wierwille then the Bible is wrong and it doesn't really mean what it says but what wierwille says takes precedence. T-Bone you hit the nail on the head with your myopia reference.

And here you show how deep your cognitive dissonance really runs. You are on the wierwille train and you will go where his doctrines take you. This is why you feel attacked and have to reconcile the Bible to pflap.

I know, because the Bible contains traditional Christian doctrine and you prefer cobbled together, stolen materials that wierwille put together to serve his purposes. Purposes of adultery, drunkenness, love of money, etc.

You have very little actual faith in Christian doctrine. These are not figures of speech...which figure would that be? Because others agree with you doesn't mean that all of you arent wrong.

NO! the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.. The last Adam is Jesus Christ. He is a man but he has been changed in form and function to a lifegiving spirit.

Mike - wierwille's works are inherently anti-Christ. The only way any of his doctrines work is to minimize Jesus Christ as absent so the words of wierwille have free course, not the Word of the Lord!

And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

That was Jesus Christ himself - not a vision. Jesus Christ appears to many in the book of Acts and he gives vision through the spirit. You should know this, Mike.

Christ is no longer flesh and blood - he is changed forever more. You can change scripture all you want, because that is exactly what you are doing. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit..

Thats a really good point! When you think about what happened to Jesus Christ at the end of his ministry then Paul's troubles make more sense than what wierwille tried to infer. They turned against Jesus Christ at the end of his ministry, though Christ was no less victorious over the devil because people turned against him. In the gospels we see that without Jesus Christ, the true shephard, the sheep would naturally scatter. Jesus Christ gathered what was a scattared and built his Church with their help. Paul had mass people turn against him at the end of his life too...which st vic said was the Church in ruin as if Christ, Paul, et. al. had failed. I think not! Paul's ministry in a nutshell: Acts 9 13-16 (Start of Paul's ministry) Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 2Timothy 4:7-8 (near the end of Paul's ministry and life) I have fought the good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith. Finally there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved his appearing"

Mike you missed a vital component - Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ gave the revelation to Paul, Peter, James, etc - not God. It went from God to Jesus Christ to his Church. Hes not absent. Galatians 1:11, 12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Take off the rose colored glasses. It is never dismissed anywhere but always exposed and condemned - especially throughout the Church epistles. That's the problem with having on those blinders that we learn from pflap and other way ministry gobbledy gook. Fake absent Christ - not involved in christians lives other than a name sake on the end of prayers. Bask in his accomplished works so you can have an abundance of material crap. Otherwise, Christ is absent and only deal with God. Real ever-present Jesus Christ - vitally involved in lives of Christians in an intimate fellowship with the believer, Father, and Son. Sin is recognized, repented of, confessed, forgiven by our identification with Christ - we are led into our walk in the spirit by Jesus Christ who is the head of the body, directs the affairs of the Church, gives eternal life, is our advocate, etc, etc. That is the real book of Acts put into play.

Sorry to break this to you - Christianity is a sin focused movement. The entire book of Romans centers around sin (not only Romans either). It explains the law was given to convict sin. From a literary stand point the book of Romans starts with an outer section that deals with sins people commit (addresses gentiles and Israel seperately and in turn) and moves into an innersection that deals with the corrupted nature of mankind called the sin nature in all of it's ugliness. The entire old testament law, aka Mosaic law, aka The Torah was given to convict sin and bring people to Christ. Then we are taken into the new birth and walking in the spirit, the new creation, the new man that nullifies the sin nature when people press into the spirit instead of the flesh. The problem you are having is you are blinded by wierwille, a man who rationalized his sin and hid them while letting his lusts run wild, posing as a man of God....P.T. Barnum style....greatest man of God since Jesus Christ who pulled the greatest doctrines together since the first century from God almighty. Christianity is sin focused and offers the final solution - the real Jesus Christ - not the absent one.

Yeah...hes that too...Mike's here to convert us back to pfal from our negative ways.

No....never...

I personally witnessed these changes from an insider's vantage point. Looking back and hindsight being 20/20 it's clear to me that I was part of a huge coverup of massively illegal illicit sexual activity from craig martindale that takes a direct path to victor paul wierwille. Massive enough to justify RICO charges going to trial if the Allen's hadn't settled. Whitewash and coverup -- insincere changes done out of a grudiging heart. I personally heard Rosalie say during our weekly cabinet meeting that "she hates all the changes they have had to make. If she had it her way things would go back to the way they were." Context of the meeting? A clergyman from HQ didnt attend the sunday teaching service because he chose instead to goto his child's state championship ballgame. She was mad because she felt restrained legally from doing what she really wanted to do. I don't know exactly what that was because she never stated that explicitly only that if she had it her way things would go back to the way they were. I could only assume that would mean dropping the guy's clergy status, firing them, marked and avoided dfac etc. A huge part of the reason I post here is I was part of it, even though my part was passive and that of a witness. So, I will tell everything I saw with an open heart before my God and my Christ. I have asked for forgiveness and moved on.

Mike - I couldn't have said it any better.