Bishop

Positive expectations in life help one to succeed. (By this I do NOT mean the law of believing) Fear can and should be overcome in one's life. It's okay to be morally imperfect (for example it's ok to lie if it creates a better good). Christian's don't have to have a negative attitude about sex. (i.e. it's not sin just to THINK about it) COMMITTED premarital sex isn't the end of the world. There is no place of eternal torment. There is a God and he's not mad at you. Things that I think were mostly bad for people: I have no friends when it comes to the Word. It's the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word. We know all of the truth, other churches are devilish. Everything bad in your life is caused by fear. Devil spirits are everywhere . . . . Arrogance is a virtue. I also think that in spite of all this most of the fellowships and twigs have provided some social safety net for the people that go to them. Being part of the way also gave people purpose and distracted them from destructive behavior - as most religion can. It also gave them a sense of belonging. I think many way people just went for that. I don't think that all of the people in the way have or do believe the doctrine that they teach. Just my opinion.

You're right, no way to know. IMHO Chris handled that terribly no matter what VP said . . .

did i?

jeez man, you should be a high school counselor or something. so upbeat and solution oriented

Maybe i'm trapped and just don't know it . . . time will tell.

I'm no expert on nihilism but i'll give this a shot: Aside from theology all meaning and purpose in the universe is subjective. For example, why is living more meaningful than dying? If the elimination of human suffering is more important than being happy, than the purpose of life might be to die. If one subjectively concludes that becoming happy is more important than ending suffer, then there is purpose in finding happiness in human existence. " Imagine that you're playing poker and you happen to get these five cards: A♠ K♠ Q♠ J♠ 10♠ You, of course, put on your stoic poker-face and deftly win the whole game. You toss those five cards on the table, rip your shirt in half, make a bunch of primitive, caveman-esque grunting sounds and buy yourself a dozen cars, and maybe a house or two. If you showed those cards to someone who's never played poker before, instead of to the people you were playing against, and you'd be forced to repeat "really?! you don't get it?" about a dozen times before you walked away, wishing you could find someone who understood how awesome that hand was." -http://logiceatsbabies.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-difficulty-with-nihilism.html Nietzche held that in the absence of God, there is no true purpose to life. That's nihilism. I think a number of other philosophers have come to the same conclusion, though i don't have time to find them all. Intuition is not superstition. . . . it's subconscious process whereby people make judgments from the whole of their experience. It's the inner voice that says "this seems right, this is what should fit here." Different parts of TWI doctrines have different effects on different people. Some doctrines are beneficial to most, some are harmful to most depending on how they are perceived and applied.

They're not all lazy lowlifes . . . John Shroyer . . . . He already had a job when he started CFF . . . people joined his thing in droves because he treated them with respect and gave them a place to connect with old friends and feel peace and meaning. Many people left after they found closure. He was ok with that. He called CFF a church and regularly worked with other ministries in the area (his daughter does interdenominational meetings at CFF still). Furthermore, the guy was not lazy at all. There were so many old wayfers that wanted his attention . . . sometimes hed put in 80 hours a week. I remember him almost falling asleep during meetings he was so worn out.

Well, I think the way took a turn for the better after she took charge. However, I wasn't actually "in" when she did, so I don't have that much support for my position. I'll just leave it there.

With all that education, he had the ticket to a normal life. Having a Dr. in education guarantees you a decent job AT LEAST as a teacher. The grips of indoctrination must have been weak too, since he was so well educated. Didn't Wierwille call him spineless or some such in poap? Maybe he was right. The guy just didn't have the guts to face the truth and break away.

Many of the splinter group leaders i've encounters look like they're tortured by doubt and deep remorse . . . the honest ones anyways. On top of that they have to work with hurt, confused, needy people without any real training. I can't imagine that this is a dream job . . .

By honesty, I assume you mean what is reasoned to be true based on science (since you're a naturalist and all). If you follow that path though, nihilism is the logical destination. Intuition tells us that there is truth beyond what is obvious, that there is meaning beyond just survival . . . . . . Most people take the intuitive path and I commend them for their optimism.

Well, I'm just saying they're happy . . . it's hard to deny.

Alright mr. evidence. How about this sample video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VPcPCwK_G0 These guys look happy as larks . . . no abuse there. Obviously there has been a lot of healing under her leadership . . .

Well she IS a healer of God's ppl. The prophesy declared it when she took over the ministry. Idk why or if she did those things . . . maybe she changed, or didn't understand what she was doing. No way to know for sure. The important thing is that was in the past. right?

Rev. Rivenbark is a good person . . . . a pastor . . . . she heals peoples hearts.

Well, what I meant is, she became President and all, which means she had a lot of pull on peoples lives. People who were already sold out to a lot of doctrines, some of which were pretty crazy. Had she said, "hey, lets all go to churches sometimes, and talk about how Jesus Acted in the gospels" I think she would have lost her position. Instead, she took a more pragmatic approach and toned things down and gravitated away from some of the extreme crazy doctrines without making everyone mad. I'm not saying shes great, just that she didn't lead everyone off a cliff or something.

Really, the discrepancies in PFAL could have been caused by errors that crept into the texts, or into the lexicons. Perhaps even the laws of logic have been corrupted. I bet a catholic discovered them . . . . .

I think RR did a lot of good considering the situation. She took charge of a cult full of people who had been psychologically/sexually abused and turned it into a positive thinking cult. Now these people can live a meaningful and harmless life. I think shes RELATIVELY good.

Welcome! I learned to discipline my mind, be courageous, be positive, avoid drugs, and a few other things. For those I am thankful. I don't think that knowing all of the ideas that you listed is good though. The problem is, many "fellowships" hang on to a lot of really crazy ideas and it's hard to join a church if you believe that Jesus isn't God, etc. Cheers, Bishop

So are you saying he literally flipped you off? I remember him making a statement something like "If we're all wrong, this has been a great trip." Ms. Wierwille was telling people in the nursing home to renew their minds . . . . I guess it makes more sense that he mostly believes what he preached.

You left the way in '72? wow.

Maybe the Way would offer a "tithe discount" to those who they kicked out. After all, they have a competition with splinter groups and all after someones been kicked out. Maybe you could give 8% and still receive protection . . .

Hey all, JW . . . What do you guys think was really in his head? I think he really believed he was the MOG and all. He would even tell people, go to the Word and see for yourself . . . I think he expected people who had his secret knowledge to find the same exact "truths" in the bible.

Hey! I just recently left (got kick out of really) a splinter group. It's been kind of challenging since I was very committed to TWI teachings and all. It's kind of shocking to realize that there's nothing wrong with everyone else . . . been lurking on GSC and it has been a real help. Glad ya'll are here! Bishop