brainfixed

thanks! and hugs back! and step three might be not expecting that everybody that's been around here for a long time has figured out their stuff already. i just figured that one out just now. sometimes my brain isn't so fixed. lol

this is "about the way" because i think i'm "finding my voice" or something like it in that "about the way indeed" discussion and i didn't figure on it because i figured on people resorting to their way training and hiding behind bullying and innuendo and corps tactics and the stuff they were taught in the way international when their stuff stank and they didn't want to smell it, but what's happening is that while i duke it out i'm finding out that i'm fighting battles i wish i could have fought while a hostage in the way international and it's good, real good. but i'm also finding out that my stuff stinks (just a little bit lol) too and hey look ma i have way international harshness too and some other stuff like being so set in my own way of thinking that somebody has to point out another way of thinking before i even consider the possibility. but i started this discussion to say that sometimes a good duking it out can be good (so long as people play by the rules) as a learning experience. but i wouldn't recommend it as a way to start out around here because i had to take a big break before i could see through some of the shenanigans that excult people can pull on one another without even knowing it (most of the time).

you didn't say what you were referencing except "Rumrunner spoke up at the start of this thread." and that was what he wrote "at the start of this thread" so what's a girl to figure? and i'll edit to add what about what else i said?

i put in the bolding to make sure it was seen.

you're welcome and thanks for listening. and btw i did some of that "good" detachment in there when i said things like "if it happened as a child" where i had to detach from my experiences to get it out. i can and do learn. :)

there's something i'm not understanding here and that's the concept of this place being a "gift" to me because if something is a "gift" to me, then what i do with it is no longer the business of the person that gave it to me, but the owner of this site has rules and has the authority to enforce those rules as her or she sees fits. and being thankful for a gift is one thing anyway but being beholden to somebody for a "gift" makes it not a gift anymore but a control issue. and something else i'm not understanding either is the backhanded insults laced around in here about trying to formulate "coherent" responses and the grammar and the spelling and the whole rumrunner writings where he offered ex to buy a used motorcoach and you want him to stand out as an example of someone trying to "gracefully" trying to "calm the situation" and your interpretation of this as not being someone making assumptions? and speaking of "mysterious undercurrents of distant history that no one really gets" what about the little diddy that seems to always be brought up about the "other sites" somebody is at or has been at like the ones rumrunner brought up or doojable brought up? i don't get those "mysterious undercurrents of distant history" or even if they're distant or current or whatever or even if they have any point in this discussion or not because i don't even know what they are to begin with. and something else i don't get is what world people live in where a "thick skin" is an expected "normal"? i know one thing and that is if people in the world i live in acted even a little bit like towards one another the way they act around here they'd get fired or brought to court or even punched in the nose. try going to a grocery store some day and stepping up to the butthole giving the clerk a hard time and telling her to put on her "big girl panties" and see how much "discussion" ensues, or try telling the boss to "formulate coherent thoughts" when he's ranting off and see how your next promotion goes, or try offering a co-worker a "used motorcoach" after finding out she was raped on one and see if you aren't brought up on sexual harassment charges.

ok what i'm seeing in ex's words are not accusations or unreasonable expectations, but quite normal reactions of those that have survived such things to what appears to be people glossing over the real underbelly of the way international, and for that matter, what really makes something a cult instead of just another whacked out religion. and that's what doesn't get discussed much either here or anywhere else unless it breaks down into some sort of fight or "let us fix you" or "grow up and move on with your life" lecturing. and i'll tell you it's not helpful to just get all the touchy feely pats on the back "support" saying "that was wrong and it should have never happened and it wasn't your fault and it wouldn't have happened on MY watch because I would have been the big hero and would have punched the sob out and wouldn't have cared what leadership said and would have left the way international right then and there if they DARED to try to make ME accept a pervert in MY twig or running MY children's fellowship!" and you know why that doesn't help at all? because it's a bunch of b.s. because the way international did it, did it all the time, did it often, covered it up with the help of regular janes and joes like people here whether anybody realized it or not and did it for decades. and so when people that survived that crapola talk about it and it gets glossed over with what ex so aptly called a 1.2.3.4. thesis or somebody says "i never saw it or heard about it and if i had of i would have done something about it but now that you're here it's time for you to grow up and get over it" well, you know that's just another form of the crapola. so what would be helpful? for one just stop trying to help because there really is no help that anyone can provide because this is something only professionals or ourselves can help, and professionals really can't do all that much really. for another thing recognize that this is permanent damage. it's not like a broken bone that will heal or a cut that just leaves a little scar or even like having your tonsils out and another body part will cover what the tonsils did. this changed how the brain functions, how the understanding functions, how the body functions and how the emotions function. if it happened as a child it changed how the child developed completely and in every way including motor skills, reasoning skills, problem solving skills, bone development, brain development, reproductive development (and more and more it's being realized that it's not just "growth hormones in meat" that is causing children to go into puberty earlier and earlier, but that a whole lot of it can be explained by childhood sexual abuse, but that's not a "popular" thing to expose it's also not a popular result to find in studies if you want to get funded for your next study), and is even at the root of many learning disabilities for far too many children. another thing that can be done is let people have their anger over it all. this is something to be really mad about! it messes people up and it messes people up for a long, long time! if you don't like to think that it does, or if you don't think it should and you want to say so then remember that saying so is a two-way street because taking somebody's ability to say so was one of the worst things that was taken from us so let us say so if we want to, ok? and then remember that it's scary as hell. the second definition could be a good thing of course. something i hadn't thought about, thanks.

yah and it's called "detachment" and it's a way of keeping a person from having to actually cope with reality, which is why i said it wasn't the phrasing but the mentality because it's so the way international all over again and again and again.

ok! thank you for doing that line by line thing and considering what i said. i'd do it but the only time i can get that to work is when it happens accidentally and i think i'm doing two posts but then it ends up as one post with two quotes from two different people and it looks like i know what i'm doing but i don't. :) the things i talked about were not rhetorical but were asked for discussion purposes because it was being said nobody promised friendship or healing or anything from this place except the stated purpose of this place (and i stand corrected here) "the other side" of the way international story (and if i got that wrong again please correct me again), so why was anybody complaining if they didn't find anything but "the other side" of the way international story? my point was yah maybe nobody was "promised" anything here but from the thousands of posts here that "allude" to the "possibility" of finding friendships, finding compassion, finding your voice, finding healing, well damn what else could somebody conclude if they maybe one day get tired of the isolation of the cult, get tired of the "silence of the lambs" (that might be copyrighted somewhere so i'm sorry but it so fits to describe what happens at the way international), get so tired of having only "approved" discussions that after "lurking" and maybe getting some "warm fuzzies" from some of the camaraderie around here in some of the more "tame" areas maybe they jumped in and said the only thing they knew and that was cult-speak and whammo blammo that's the last of their "little girl panties" and their butt and their pubic hairs and their willingness to chance things outside of the "hedge of protection" for a little while at least. and wait a minute here, didn't you just say that you came here to find some old friends and made some new ones and even found your voice here? how you did that shouldn't be a cookie cutter recipe for how others do it, should it? i dunno, but if it should be, how does that make this place any different from the way international in the end because at first the way international wasn't malignant from what i understand? and really these pages are full of people finding friendships here, finding their voice here, finding healing here, finding a new thought process here, so why shouldn't people actually expect these things for themselves from coming here and participating without having to go through some sort of "hell week" (or maybe i should say "l.e.a.d. week" or "corps week") first? and that's what i think was the point of the beginning of this discussion. and i'm editing this to add that this discussion has made me realize that i've participated in that whammo blammo stuff and i'm sorry i've done that. and i'm editing again to say that this working things out in my head is working because look at how i'm beginning to see that big chip on my shoulder even now because after re-reading this last post of mine i'm beginning to see i can be just as way international harsh as the next person.

yah. i think what you're saying here probably came out better than how i would have said it. and your cslewis quote is one of his best i think, too.

i started to answer this question and then i thought "wait a minute here, isn't this the same person that picked out one line of a whole post of mine and ignored the rest of it?" and then i thought "wait another minute here, isn't this the same old same old "answer a question with a question" corps tactic my brother and sister always used on me to control me and avoid controlling themselves?" well i guess that means i'd rather you consider the things i have to say before you jump to another tactic. and those are my feelings about what you've been saying and that doesn't mean i'm right or wrong but just that's the way i feel. it isn't the phrasing, it's the mentality.

i think i've been taken back to twig, mommy.

i guess i'd better not go off on holiday again after writing something that i thought was probably going to be largely ignored or maybe pointed at as me being some troll or something, but my inbox was full and i couldn't believe it was because people zeroed in on just one statement i made out of a whole post. it is so much like how the way international "explained" why the "promises" on the green card didn't work for everybody. "well who promised you anything anyway? it's your believing doncha know? and your believing isn't up to me or johnny jump up! it's up to you to get out of this class and this ministry what you believe to get out of it! and this ministry isn't for everybody! maybe you'd be better off in a church somewhere doing charity work if you want to get the warm fuzzies. but we here at the way international have a purpose and that purpose is DOING THE WORD. so don't think you were promised a damned thing except where your own believing would take you." well, i know many a children whose "believing" took them into state's custody after years of physical, mental and sexual abuse at the hands of twigite parents who were DOING THE WORD. yah. no promises. it's all our own fault. if people crap on us, we should have received a heavy revvy and not been around to be crapped on. heard it all before. read the results of it all here whenever i come around. don't understand why the same logic would be applied over and over again to justify the same type of belittling and condescending. but hey now, i'm not complaining because i am here by free will and i didn't have to pay a dime to be here (and i wouldn't pay a dime to be here, or any other message board for that matter) but i am just discussing on the other side of the coin that isn't the cheerleading side, sort of a "devil's advocate" side of things. maybe trying to "find my voice" of disagreeing with everybody at one time or something. i don't really know what i'm doing besides trying to figure out my own head and if that bothers anybody well then that sort of is a "promise" around here is that i can stick around and figure things out so long as i abide by the rules, and so far i'm pretty sure i haven't broken any rules, so a big middle finger if it does bother anybody. and no i'm not having a bad day, but in fact had a wonderful holiday week visiting with friends and companions i hadn't seen in a long time and not a one of them from the cult and not one word mentioned about the cult and how about that!

does anybody really truly honestly think that the the things put forth that started this discussion were about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing that gets discussed or goes on around here is always just about the "truth about the way international" and all that? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the it is just a simple little old side effect of telling the "truth about the way international" that some people find their voice here, and that some people find healing here, and that some people make friends here? really? and does anybody really truly honestly think that the only thing important about this place is telling the "truth about the way international"? really? because if that be the case then this place has long outlived its reason for anything but archival existence and everybody participating in all these discussions on a daily basis are taking up a lot of time and money and work for no particular reason at all except to keep this place on top of the search engines. and that may be the point of the circular arguments around here. boy do i feel duped all over again.

sometimes when i write things here i write so many things that what i'm trying to say gets lost in what i'm writing because i have so many things i want to say running around in my brain at the same time and i think i want to look at this very first thing said on this discussion and see some things again. "i talked to someone today who was in for almost 30 years and out less than five" that's a pretty big statement when i stop to think about it because that means the person was probably in for the majority of their adult lives or even all but 5 years of their adult lives. can anybody imagine what that means? if it hadn't been for school or my other parent i wouldn't have known what the outside world was like at all because tv and newspapers and unbelievers were not allowed my one parent's home or discussions or life. i knew kids that didn't go to school and were "tutored" at home and they had no clue about things like who was the president of the united states or even big bird (sesame street was full of devil spirits, does anybody remember that?). i can't imagine what it would be like for somebody to spend most of their adult lives in the way international and suddenly find themselves cut lose from that and out in the real world and not under the "umbrella of protection". it must be insane for them to function among people that don't obey leadership or jump to commands of other people or answer to others about their every minute of every day scheduling. the very idea of what to do with the suddenly found free time is probably scary as hell, but having fear surely must be proof they made a bad, bad decision, isn't it? but there's nobody there to tell them one way or the other. "why do we think others are where we are ?" that's a valid question for here because i felt and still feel that expectation often if i say things that don't quite "fit in" here. "and even if they don't please us (or "line up with us") in their particular place in their path, why doesn't compassion rule ?" well? it's a valid question. it has nothing to do with "meeting needs" and it has nothing to do with "the purpose of this site" and it has nothing to do with anything but is just a valid question in my opinion, and it is particularly valid considering that totally compassionless cult called the way international we all came from.

i think this just needs to be quoted so it can be read again because it's such nice work, and i put the bolding in because in all that the way international did it did two things best and that was to bind the hands of god and remove the freedom of will.

i think this is what i was trying to figure out in my head and couldn't get it screwed down into the words that would make sense to me so well as you just did. thanks! ham, i looked at the gallery pictures of a couple of the weenie roasts past and they looked like camping trips and i am not a camping trip type of person in any way at all, and i'm not the type of person to meet people off the internet either especially people that the only thing i have in common with them is they were in the same cult i was in, but that means i just haven't gotten to know anybody here beyond that, so anyway i'm just saying it wouldn't be this year or next year for me anyway, but thanks for the suggestion. jeffsjo yes i like being able to disagree especially with people that were in the way international because it's like getting do-overs for all the times i wasn't allowed to disagree. lol chockfull. yes waysider i think you and i agree.

on another discussion somebody said "Why should it be any different than real life, not happy, go do something else." and it got me thinking that this isn't real life at all unless you're so rich or so poor it doesn't matter or retired or in some other way not tied to a job and a mortgage and a car payment and insurance premiums and relatives and a whole lot of other things that may or may not particularly make you happy but they are what you do to get you by for awhile until you can get to where you're happy for a minute or two. and anyway why is being happy the goal? isn't happiness fleeting? maybe i don't get happiness. but back on the subject. but the whole point was that if you don't like hanging out with who you're hanging out with, and if you don't like the game you're playing at the moment, then find other players and play a different game, or even make the current game better in some way, but don't complain if you stick around doing something you don't like doing with people you don't like doing it with. well that sort of is real life if you're talking about only the games and not the other things that go on in real life like jobs and grocery shopping and doctor's appointments and driving in traffic and waiting in line at the motor vehicle department or even trying to get out of the drive through line at a fast food place when it isn't so fast or living in an apartment complex. i mean if all we're going to talk about is socializing, then yes maybe you have to play only with those you play well with and that like you and you like them and they agree with you and everything is nicey nice and la ti da and hip hip hooray like on the good old playground. maybe. but life isn't one big social event where everybody gets to pick and choose their daily activities and the people they will be interacting with. and how does this all apply to being here at the greasespot cafe anyway? well because being here is like going to the emergency room or the doctor's for me, and i can only speak for me because i'm the only head i can get inside of so what else can i do? and when i go to the doctor's office or the emergency room there are all sorts of different people there that maybe i like them and maybe i don't, and maybe they're decent people that i'd like to get to know outside of the waiting rooms, and maybe they're under arrest and in the er because they just had a shoot-out with the cops, and maybe they're hypochondriacs and they're in the doctor's office a thousand times a week and take up the doctor's time to the point that they bully all the other patients, the nurses and the doctor so that nobody is getting what they really need, and maybe they just don't feel good and they're not in the mood or presence of mind to deal with me or anybody else at the moment. and that's what i feel like around here, that there are people coming here and i don't know why they're here and what brought them here and maybe they don't even know for sure, but nobody thinks it's because we're all one big happy family and nothing's wrong. or do they? maybe that's what i'm not getting. but i don't think it's anybody's "freedom" to be able get into people's faces, to bully people, to tell people how to live their lives, to be condescending and arrogant. and i don't think it's anybody's "freedom" to try to keep people from speaking their minds so long as when they're doing that speaking it doesn't fall in those last things i mentioned. so just what is this "freedom" stuff anyway?

yes and now when people try to fix me i rear back and roar and snarl and swipe at them with unsheathed claws and hope i take their hearts out! not really that bad, but almost. i don't do well at all with people that try to make me into their own images.

i like what you've been saying on this discussion a lot and it brought some humor to things for me at least, and i needed the humor because i was getting all flashback freaky (that's a term i came up with in therapy about things i read here and how i react to them) with some things that were being said and you came back and said some of the same things but with a little bit of a different enough twist that they didn't bring on the flashback freakies for me, so i could laugh and see what the point was in the first place. and in the middle of the venting some discussing went on and in the middle of the discussing some understanding happened and that was helpful so i can say that today i got something helpful here and that it was good and i said amen but i'm still wearing that robe and those slippers so don't anybody push it with me. :P

i don't feel like i get anything helpful or not helpful or anything really here besides a place to vent what i feel about my life because of the way international and whether that is helpful or not has not really been decided in my mind yet or not. i was just discussing but wasn't putting on any special clothing to do my discussing in except maybe my bad hair and my "it's sunday and i don't give a crap about nobody or nothing so don't bother me" robe and slippers that really need washing. if i broke some rule please tell me on monday when i'm wearing something better to hear you with. :D jk oh well that's because i don't do private messages (and i hope that's what you mean by "pm") or emails with people here because i was totally whipped to death with how to live my life when i did. sorry but that's the way i feel.

ok so see what i want to know is why didn't you go somewhere else when you didn't like what was being said on this discussion instead of telling people to "put on your big girl panties" and "don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya"? that is stuff i heard a whole lot in the way international when i said things people didn't like. and anyway somebody did do exactly what you're telling people to do, and they did go somewhere else and they did start a forum and they did volunteer to help out but what did it get them but made fun of and run off from everything i can figure out from all the discussions around here? just on this discussion alone it's already broken down into telling people to go away if they don't like the way people here play. and this is supposed to be the other side of the way international?

i like using "differently wired" in this discussion because that's really it in a nutshell, isn't it? isn't it the differently wired that the way international abuses the most? from the stories on here alone about how h.a. and others would hunt for just the right victims for vpw, how we were all taught to pick out specific people to "witness" into taking pfal or going wow or whatever, or look at what the way international described as the "ideal" corps people. the way international always has been looking for victims and typically victims are those that have spent most of their lives knowing they were different from others and they have felt that difference in negative ways, so the way international comes in like saviors and makes those differences into "gifts" only to use those "gifts" as a means to the ends of worse torment than people knew before the way international.

i think this is perfect because i think this describes exactly what happens and then it also talks about the lack here because it says "i think where we fail as a community, is educating the new visitors on the range of choices available." because my experience has been that there isn't really a range of choices available here and that there's really only one or two ways to think here if you're going to be really accepted here, and those one or two ways to think is to totally and completely puke out the doctrines of the way international and totally and completely get over any perceived damaged as soon as people here think you should be over any perceived damage because it's for your own good don't you know? and everybody here knows what's for your own good and will tell you so without even being asked, and even if asked why would cult survivors return to telling other people how to live in the first place, which is what makes the choices seem really limited and confuses a person as to what was wrong with the way international anyway?

hi kizka. i'm sorry to meet yet another child messed up by the way international's "unofficial" practice and standard of raping pillaging and plundering whatever "leadership" felt they had a "right" to, and i am sorry to say that i am someone that is quite angry about it all and that i have found out that there aren't many people that are angry about it and that actually think the anger is a sign that there's something wrong with me, so as a sort of warning or something just don't let anybody know if it bothers you much, and i'd say send me a private message or an email but i disabled those things here after being told how to "fix" myself one too many times. welcome and beware that this is the internet and that not everybody has escaped as much as they want to believe or want everybody else to believe. be careful.