brainfixed

very cool indeed. thanks. i needed something like this.

the one thing that i had to fix in my head the most was the idea of absolutism about the bible, the idea that it was magnified above everything, the idea that it was what was the greatest secret in the world today, and that took a long time and a whole lot of hard work that equaled or even sometimes was harder than the work i have to do concerning the abuse in my life! in the way international the bible became god. it really is that simple and because it is that simple it's also that difficult to release when it comes to looking at it as possibly not god, not the end all be all thing that the way international makes it out to be. and add to that the only redeeming thing about being involved with the way international was that somehow it was all about "serving" god by "doing the word" and then realizing that what the way international put out there as "the word" was really a false idol cast in gold with dead bodies laying around it and all, well it leaves an emptiness in the mind and heart of cosmic proportions that isn't really something to take on without professional help in my opinion because something has to take up that emptiness. what helped me a whole lot was to talk with some rabbis and have them explain to me how they see the bible, and this helped because i wasn't going to listen to some "johnny jumpup" trinitarian don't ya know?! and also rabbis had to study hebrew, right? so they'd at least come closer to "the truth" than some "out in left field" trinitarian trying to make jesus into god. these are the things i told my therapist and talking to rabbis was the the possible help that my therapist offered. well anyway what i learned was that debating the hidden meanings of the writings is a time-honored thing to do because even though the writings are sacred, they are not god and should not be seen as god or taken as if god himself wrote them because everybody knows that men wrote them and men can get god's message pretty messed up and they pointed me right to abraham as a prime example of how men can get god's message messed up over and over again. i didn't take it so well, though, and even was throwing up over the idea that the one group of people i had figured probably had a better clue than anybody about god was now telling me that the writings may be sacred but they weren't without error because even if the men were holy and moved by the spirit, they were still men and they still had to work as men with all their lack of understanding and imperfections and poor judgement, whew! that was too much! you know? and the rabbis didn't stop there but went on to say that if they understood me correctly about that "holy men of god spoke as they were moved by the holy spirit" interpretation by the way international, then i was talking about "automatic writing" and that they considered such things as unholy and wondered if i weren't involved in the occult and if the way international was using the bible to practice the occult and not christianity! that made me think! thanks. yah that's it in a nutshell.

when i was still addicted to the bible part of "fellowship" i had someone say to me "so what's stopping you from making up a little group like that for yourself?" well of course my immediate thought in my head was "because i'm not a twig leader yet". go figure huh? i didn't say that out loud luckily but instead said "you know, you're right" and then put up little flyers around town and found out that there were a whole lot of people that wanted to do the same thing without all the "churchy" stuff attached, but i found myself freaking out when people wanted to "privately interpret" the bible and interrupted a "teaching" i'd worked hours on and didn't want the "manifestations". that's when i knew i was still in the way international in my head and had to do something with my own head before i could ever consider having real relationships with other people.

that's a very good way to put it because it's like that a whole lot and it's very much like the "trauma bond" too.

i've been reading a lot lately around here about people missing the "fellowship" of being in the way international, and it might be that i'm just noticing it a lot more nowadays or something and it's not being said a lot more around here, but anyway i've also been noticing that the "fellowship" is also being equated to "friendship" and that this happens a lot in the "real" world, too, like with co-workers or in exercise groups or even in support groups that people find "common ground" and equate that to "friendship". well i had to unlearn this habit because it's not really "friendship" and it's not really "fellowship" in the sense that i've read some people make "fellowship" out to be, and even the dictionary defines "fellowship" to be as one part " friendly relationship; companionship: the fellowship of father and son.", or even another part of "communion, as between members of the same church" because in the way international "communion" wasn't even practiced correctly and did not at all build true fellowship between people but divided people one against another i've had to learn a new way to define "friendship" and "fellowship" that is healthy, helpful, and builds trust and caring and longevity into a relationship, instead of the false "friendship" and "fellowship" offered at the way international that was always "upon condition" and was proudly used to divide husband against wife, mother against child, brother against sister, and all that pure evil that the way international took only one verse out of context to "justify" their sin. "friendship" for me must now be built and it is no longer a given just because of common interests or even common goals. "fellowship" i now take far more seriously than sitting around being told how to think and yelled at if i don't think it quite right. i also have to be able to trust the person farther than our belief systems before i will consider them part of a "friendship" or even a "fellowship" with me. it surprises me now that i ever considered that stuff as true "friendship" or "fellowship".

i was going to say she never makes her point, but i will have to second it that "bring the Concorde in for a landing" takes the cake here! lol!

hello "theheckler" and welcome, but i don't know if i can be a part of the welcoming committee yet because i'm a new person around these parts too, but welcome anyway. it's been a long time since i've heard the indoctrination used "properly" and not at all since i've been having my "brain fixed" so this discussion is very revealing to watch! this little bit that i've quoted here struck me because i saw it quite clearly for something that happens quite a bit in the "real" world but to see it first-hand from the "real" world and not from inside of the way international thought patterns shows me what it always was and that is a form of "detachment". you feel the connection to another human being, but the indoctrination kicks in automatically and you detach from that connection. it's the same thing that happens when the old "i have no friends when it comes to the word" indoctrination kicks in. these things may seem all well and good and harmless enough and even quite strengthening to your "walk", but in the end they take away someone's humanity and leave the very last thing someone truly born again ever wanted to "manifest" and that is hard-heartedness one towards another. not "stupid" at all. but to ask it of people you are not close friends with it is a "cold" question.

thanks. i keep forgetting that i've walked into a kind of "new school" for me here and that i'm one of the "new kids" and there's histories and things that don't involve me and my "read" on things so i'm going to have to remember that more, but i had approached being here more like a "support group" environment and that isn't the way it is at all, so it's an adjustment for me.

oh i wouldn't think of it since you're so good at doing it for me.

oh i'm not doing a disappearing act or anything but i'm just done with a discussion that was boggling my mind and i think i realized why, but i don't want to know one way or the other. but anyway, yah, i probably have misread a whole lot in this discussion because i'm thinking the discussion is about one thing and now i'm realizing there's a lot of little "one things" i either don't understand, don't know about, haven't read about yet or something. but that's ok because i really do not want to be "in the know" that deeply around here.

it's my computer for sure because windows keeps overwriting my new sound card and i haven't taken the time to figure out how to stop that from happening yet but i think i'm going to get my co-worker buddy over to look at it for me and then maybe i can listen to lots of things i've been missing. oh yah! i'll never forget the first time i realized that people had a relationship with jesus and weren't thinking about how many were crucified with him, how many "stripes" he had laid on his back, which day he really died on, whether he was 12 or 13 when he was taken to the temple, that mary wasn't a virgin when he was born, that he wasn't a baby but a toddler when the wise men visited him, that his last name was "christ" and without using both his first and last name you were addressing a devil spirit and and all that crapola when they were thinking about jesus, but that they were thinking about a friend, about a real being that spent time with them and comforted them and listened to them and someone they listened to when they read or heard his words read, that he is truly a living being to hundreds of thousands of people, not some twice removed name to toss around when commanding others or trying to get what you want.

i'm going to add a step 1 when dealing with "excultists" and say "they may be talking to you but they may not be relating to you".

if this shows up as part of that last thing i wrote i didn't mean it to be part of that but something seperate. i just had a moment and i think i've been caught in the middle of some histories i've got no clue about. that "high functioning" comment took a minute to catch up to all the innuendo with other similar things that have been said around here, well . so i'll back the f out of this sandtrap and let it go. so sorry to have wasted so much of everybody's time.

well, i had no intentions of "flaming" (i had to look that up) you rumrunner and i made that perfectly clear, or so i thought, but i'm not about to get into any "private" conversations with anybody around here either so i guess this means you and i have had all the discussion we're going to have. but i will say this letting other people say what you mean is wierd to say the least and not something i had come to expect as "normal" from the "regulars" around here, but hey, who am i to think anybody should live up to my expectations because that wouldn't be a "normal" thing around here at all and the lord forbid i wouldn't fit in. oh and for what it's worth "high functioning" means exactly what it says it means and that is "high functioning". it isn't "rocket science" either, to figure it out.

rumrunner i'm finally back and maybe you're not so happy about that huh? :P what i wanted to ask you is about that whole motorcoach comment because as you can probably tell it set off something with me and i get the feeling that you didn't intend it to read the way i read it but i can't see how it could have been taken any differently. and even if the person you addressed it to didn't take it the way i took it, i took it that way because i've read the bits and pieces around here about that particular person's experience and that's all i could think of when i read that comment and it just blew my mind that somebody could even go there. i'd do this in private but the whole thing has been discussed so much already and i don't do private anything with people here because my experiences with that was like being taken into leadership for one of those spit sessions i've read about. anyway, i feel that probably it would be ok to be open with this because it's out here already and because maybe it would be something nice to see people working things out? i don't think you're a bad person or an abuser or anything like that. what i do think is that in the heat of the moment you chose the one thing that the person could relate to as a betrayal of trust but that you didn't think any deeper than that, so i'm not accusing you of anything except the heat of the moment, and i was very careful to say that i wasn't accusing you of anything, but i have been very staunch about regardless it was harsh if you look at it again. so what do you think?

ok i talked to somebody at work about how to do things with the quotes here because i can't get the multiquote thing right in my head so i'm going to try what my co-worker said and see how that works and if it doesn't i'll go back to what i was doing. ok maybe so and i said as much (in my quote below) and asked that tzaia speak for him or herself. it does nobody any good to just say something is a moot point and leave it at that unless it's being said just for the saying so but then the discussion part of it gets left out and what good is a discussion forum without the discussion? why is it a moot point? how did someone arrive at that realization after all those years of not thinking it was a moot point? what did it take to convince you it was a moot point? these things help others see what is so moot about the point. otherwise it's just a remark that isn't helpful and can be taken as sarcastic and usually is taken as sarcastic when said between two people that don't know each other from brown stuff and shinola. i wish you'd read the rest of what i'd said so i'll quote it below so you can. i did not say i set up the owner of this site, this site or the purpose of this site as such and i didn't make the original correlation between a motorcoach raping and drugging and being "betrayed" on another website, either, but all i did was say it's not even comparable. i have to throw the b.s. flag on this one because the only thing that ex could relate the whole motorcoach experience to was rape and sexual abuse and that is who was being addressed directly by name when that statement was made. maybe it was and maybe it wasn't meant to hit that particular target so obviously, but what other target could it have been meant to hit with that particular person? this argument is getting thin with me because it works only so far and it has become the hiding place of people that tend to go around brown stuffing on others and then spouting off this crapola (not saying that's what you're doing in particular) and it doesn't look at reality much because if it did there wouldn't even be a greasespot cafe would there? because then there wouldn't be anything to talk about because there'd be no excuses and nobody to blame, which is what is done a lot when it comes to telling "the other side" of the way international story, particularly on the discussion boards here. and what about the lawsuits? didn't somebody get blamed there? tell me that if somebody hits your car and you're not at fault that you won't get their insurance information and make their insurance shell out. and i'll bet you'd be out for everything you could get if somebody did to your children what the way international has done to people's children, grown or not. before you go off on some sort of thing that you didn't mean it like that or something, i get that what you're trying to say is that people need to move forward and not let things hold them back in life. ok. i get it. but i don't get why people keep saying it around here. do people really think that it's helpful? it's not. do people really think that there are very many people with computers and internet access and the ability to function enough to keep the bills paid so that they can participate on a discussion forum with any regularity also need to be told to grow up, take responsibility and move on? it's a worn out and thinly disguised last ditch argument. oh but you did (about the motorcoach before) and just a minute, you will again and here it comes. i'm beginning to realize that there are people in the world that think being drugged and raped are equivalent to being backstabbed. this helps me to understand a lot of other things i haven't been able to understand before.

thank you :) i can't get the sound working on my computer but i looked up the lyrics to that song and the slides were so moving and this was great! thank you.

and dammit i just got a call and have to run for a few hours but i really do want to talk with you rumrunner because after reading what geisha said i think you were trying to make a point i didn't get from what you said and i'd like to know that if it is so.

hi rumrunner and thanks for that lesson and i'm trying it now but i don't have more than one person to quote now so it's not going to do anything different this time but i did try it to see at least the first part of it. and i've been talking about you and i don't mean to be talking about you badly but i was hoping you'd show up maybe and i could talk with you instead of about you.

one of two things that happen with people that have been burned/victimized is that they don't trust anything that even remotely resembles the thing that burned/victimized them, or that they go overboard trying to fix the problem in some way, so some people will reject everything similar and some people will embrace everything similar trying to make it right somehow. in the extreme example some women will stop being sexual at all after being raped and some women will become promiscuous after being raped. i see that with the whole religion thing around here a lot, that people tend to go one way or another in that they reject religion totally or embrace religion to the extreme. not all people and i am generalizing but i'm just saying that yah i get your battle and it makes total sense and it was "normal" if there is such a thing.

oh boy i'm not even going to try to do the quote thing so that everybody knows what person i'm responding to so i'm just going to say who i'm responding to because i'm just not that talented ok? tzaia you keep trying to moot my points and i wonder if you're meaning to say my points are "of little or no practical value or meaning"? because whether you like it or not some of the points i make that you try to moot had meaning to us all at one time or another and still have meaning to many people that read here and are still in the way international and still think way international thoughts and wonder how we survive outside of the way international. but then again it could be that you're using the first definition of moot saying that my points are " open to discussion or debate", in which case it would be great if you followed up your mooting with discussion or debate so that we all may be enlightened. lol george, that's pretty much really what it is like here, isn't it? lol geisha there's a whole dynamic that is being ignored when making such a statement that i truly hope isn't a dynamic that anybody here is wanting to say thrives here, and that is that the owner of this site has set himself up as some sort of father figure that lulls people into trusting him with their very lives as an answer from god. the whole motorcoach thing was never about friendship and caring about anybody. the correlation cannot even be made here unless anyone wants to set up the owner of this site as the same type of perpetrator as the owner of the motorcoach, and the participants of this site as the same type of followers, and the purpose of this site as the same type of cult. do you seriously equate being drugged and raped to being dissed on a website? if so, then you and i don't just look at things from different angles, you and i are worlds apart. as for the whole "rules surrounding the giving and receiving of gifts" it's something people don't pay enough attention to and it's something that gets people into problems in interpersonal relationships before they even know what's hit them. how gifts are given and received are at the base of how relationships are built or torn apart and for some reason people tend to think that if they give somebody something then they have also bought into that person's life a little bit in that there is now an expectation about what happens with that gift even if it's just getting a thank you for the gift or a displaying of the gift or a taking care of the gift. i can't believe you were in the way international and missed the whole thing about gift giving in the etiquette lessons? maybe i got them because my brother and my sister were corps? i don't know but there were reams of paper with rules and rules and rules about gifts that were really about how to control people with gifts. anyway i really did have to get therapy to unlearn that crap and to find out that the way international didn't have a corner on the control people with gifts market.

oh yah, real natures, yah. happy anniversary! you make great points, too. thanks.

woah, twilight zone moment here. what's this about?

it is hard for me to find "valid" points in what someone says when they end it with something so obviously vindictive and scathing and meant to harm and incite and control as "Wanna buy a used motor coach too?" because that in fact is called passive-aggressive when it is discussed in therapy as applied to an abuser. but i'm not calling rumrunner an abuser. but i am saying that i have my radar on "high" looking out for such things like this around here because the one thing the way international did in fact teach people was to be abusers and the way international teaches people to start off as passive-aggressive abusers, and the passive-aggressive stuff is usually the hardest stuff to catch onto because it's always laced with such "well intentioned" "good" stuff. but i will say there was nothing "well intentioned" and "good" about that one liner, and i highly suspect everything that came before was said just building up to that one liner because anybody can literally see the buildup in that particular piece of writing if they're willing. so i guess that means that i disagree about his true point when looking at the whole of what he wrote, so i guess that also means i still don't understand how you consider that as an example of trying to calm things down because it was so obviously incendiary (omg i had to look that up! lol) from the moment he started addressing "Excie" directly. well, the whole "gift" concept eludes most people in the world and usually takes therapy (trying to be funny here) to understand that when you give somebody something, you no longer have any say about what happens to the "gift" or even if the person needs to appreciate it because if it truly is a "gift" then the whole purpose is to express your feelings, not expect something in return, even if it is just a thank you or taking care of what you gave. word of warning, though, if somebody gives you a gift and you feel like you owe them something in return, or they make you feel like you do, give it back and be done with the whole thing because it won't be worth it. ok, i'll accept that you weren't being insulting about the grammar and spelling. you did say "I think at times you do need a thick skin to post here. . . or you need to grow one. It also helps to be able to hold your own intellectually and to formulate coherent responses on this forum. But, that is true just about everywhere in life" and i figured there were two places that would count for "everywhere in life" for most people and that was work and the grocery store and so i took how people acted around here into those places to see what it would look like. for you to now say "But, this isn't the grocery store or employment. . . it is a discussion forum populated by ex-cultists." is doing a run around on your own argument. you don't accept what i have to say. i don't accept what you have to say. it's great that we have a place to do that without "being out from under the hedge of protection", isn't it?