Shellon

Yeah, Bolshevik, I did (and often still do where family/twi is concerned) most quickly become the bad guy.... ummm girl. The perhaps easier part of wearing that particular title, crown and sash included, no batteries required, was that I knew full well going with my decision and actions, that I would be that particular winner. I think that helped, at least in part, as it aleviated most of the shock and surprise factor as things unfolded and the fecal matter hit the air conditioner which was, of course, set on turbo in short order. I would, as I said, do it mostly the same way again. The toughest was and remains my daughters and the great loss to their lives as they lost their father, then his entire family, my 17 year old lost friends and the little stability we'd been struggling to find foot on after her dad's death. No good mom wants to purposely turn her children's worlds upside down, especially after it's just been tipped, spilled and most of it was still gone. As nearly 12 years has come and gone now I can't help but continue to amaze at that same young woman, my 28 year old daughter and see the strengths and wealth of love and good in her and it sufficiently serves to remind me that I made the right choice. Her 14 year old sister, who has no memory of TWI save for "singing was fun" and has almost as little memory of her dad's family save for an uncle chasing lizards with her the afternoon of their dad's memorial service; she was 23 months old. The latter I'd prefer was fuller in her memory, but they, too, made their choices. I was asked, recently, if their dad would be proud of "what I did" in leaving TWI, would he be proud of us, how would he feel about my care of his children given the circumstances faced. My answer was and remains a resounding YES he would. And would he be angry with the choices others made and directed at us because I chose to protect his children. An even bigger YES! I am a blessed woman to have my family intact and strong and to have the joy to continue to learn from my daughters, to continue to be the mom they need, to continue to grow in my strength, to have never lost God and His infinite goodness and love in my life. Jeff and I are building our lives under that same incredibly fortunate umbrella of love, communication, understanding, passion and it's such a source of pride for me that he, having lost so much himself, and I can remain with enough of what is needed to put it all together into even more solid love than we each experienced while in TWI and he in River Road Fellowship. Finally, I'd add that our children are involved with us, with our experiences and our joy and our love and I can not contemplate a better way to teach them understanding of family and love and doing what they have to do with a given situation and doing their damn best to keep their heads up in pride of knowing that, even if their actions might be most painful and it's going to be a pretty tough trek because of some decision, they'll not lose family, they'll not lose support of us or each other, they'll not lose laughter, they'll not lose that unconditional good that their parents had to endure. I just don't think it gets better than that in this life for kids involved in any thing.

So much I don't miss. I don't miss the lies, the lying, the twisting of EVERthing. I don't miss dancing their dance and never knowing the steps. I don't miss having to be in so many places at once to cover so many things at once. I don't miss listening to their bullshi+ dressed up as something else like no one could figure out it was shi+. I don't miss worrying every damn day if tomorrow was going to show up. I don't miss wondering if my marriage was going to sustain the stress. I don't miss the questions that never got answered or the answers that never even had a question to begin with. I don't miss the people the look straight at me and told me they loved me when they didn't. I don't miss the concern of knowing at any moment I might lose everything, including my children. I don't miss having information in my head that I couldn't tell anyone. I don't miss The Way International; at all.

Perhaps. Poor Phil

Thanks mstar

Punxatawney Phil -------> Crockpot

I've thought about this issue since the thread began and my thoughts have been all over the place in terms of my children, our family, etc. and the parts that some days feel broken as a result of TWI. A year after my husband died, I left TWI, which meant I was taking my daughters, then 16 and 3, away from their paternal family, who were all in TWI. I knew what my girls would be missing out on in terms of grandma, aunts, uncles and cousins and the decision wasn't an easy one. For nine years, we heard nothing from them, as expected, and since then there have been a smattering of contact events but nothing that could be considered improving the situation or healthy for the girls. The disconnect is painful some times and really ok other times; depending if it's a birthday, holiday or event that I regret is being missed by their dad's family. It's been a long process of reconciliation and quite a maze of decisions as their mom. So, in answer to the original question, no, my kids are not still involved. I am most thankful for our communication process that affords them information on why I made the choices I did, actually for them, but the cost has been high. I'd do it again the same way if presented with the same circumstances.

Yes, newlife, I have vivid memories of all that stuff and, in fact, still carry some of it, which pizzes me off some times. Last night I was fixing my fave cup of tea and it occured to me that I didn't even drink the kinds of tea I liked while in TWI. Whatever some leadership person said was the best kind, we made our best kind; that's some silly shi+ if ya ask me and ya did. The first time I wasted two days in a row lounging around reading some "devilish" books and leaving all the chores just because I wanted a couple of mental health days, it felt very strange and like I would probably get busted. Most of the time I think I'm past things like this and then some reminder smacks me in the heart. The first time both my parents and my step dad all pulled into my driveway at the same time scared hell outa me. It was a total fluke; they just all happened to be driving in the same area and one saw the other pull in and so forth; nothing to do with coming to confront me about nuttin honey. But the emotions if brought were a huge wake up call to me that I still carry this crap. They stole many important things from us, didn't they? Some stuff can not be recovered and no one can make restitution for them; we just have to figure out where we can live with it and keep going.........sigh. http://outofmymouthontothepage.blogspot.com/2010/01/if-i-were-you.html

Congratulations and please do not assume how anyone might feel. This is America and we get to choose who we love, who we are an item with and no one else's opinion should matter. Love comes along so very rarely, go with it, enjoy each other, have some fun, love each other. I certainly don't wish to take from your announcement thread by reminding you of things you already know, but seriously, don't give a fig what another thinks about your lives; you've both been there, done that and have some really crappy tshirt to prove it. This life is way too short to worry about that crap. Rather, tell us the good stuff, share your lives as you might wish, let us congratulate you! Congratulations !

Not crazy about speaking for excathedra, but I think she was speaking of the 'get a life' comment that was given to Jeff

You're welcome ~! One of the most valuable things I took from TWI and still apply, I hope, is how NOT to treat people and I learned to understand that I can do more good if I meet people where THEY are, not where I wish they'd hurry up and get to. If those from RFR never learn compassion, kindness, patience (something I know you're strong in) and learn the basics of human behavior as to engaging another for hoped for results, then I fear they shall just remain ignorant, blind, accusatory, ugly hearted. What a shame and loss to their lives, not to mention those that they might otherwise have benefited if not for their stupidity. Here at GSC, I believe the majority of us get that, if simply because we use two brain cells together; we've been there and have a few ugly tshirts as our grand prizes. That they refuse to fire any synapse to the end of a whole thought isn't your fault. As a contributor to our little family around here, you get the benefit of friendships and like minded others who don't wish for you to be hurt or in pain or lose any more please. We support each other here; that aint a difficult concept, even for silly people. I don't want to invite them to cause you more and/or further crap, but you're made it crystal clear you prefer straight out, straight up truth as opposed to slinking around behind huge dirty rocks, peeking at you with heavy laden bloodshot eyes. Ew

I've bolded my responses under yours, I hope it communicates

I'm glad we were both in the right place at the right times for what needed to be said and done. You tied a knot and hung on; that's not a small deal !

That statement "get a life" is really a silly one. Of course the the person to whom it's addressed has a life, otherwise, what, they're dead. Duh. I do understand that it implies 'get over it' and all that bloody foolishness too. Hell, people that land on those things must not have much production in their lives too or they'd have exercised the organ that lies dormant in their skull to be a little more creative. Talk about needing some life. Why people think those cliche's work just never makes good sense to me. It's another way of saying something like "I don't want to address your life, I don't want to consider that you have had pains and struggles, I don't want to accept that I might have to actually converse, think, breath, do anything other than my own shi t" Excuse for not saying anything but blowing out their hole. Another one of those 'is that the best you've got?' sheesh, how lame. I offer to them, whomever they are, and yes, even if it were a silly teenage girl and maybe more so if it were a grown man; shut the hell up, take a look in the shiny thing on the wall and ask yourself some simple and basic questions. Get a life, indeed. sheeeeesh

Love that! And you have been the one to do the hardest work, I'm proud of you ~!

I guess I struggle with this one. I just can't give TWI that much credit in my life. I liken this one to blaming the one who "got me in the word" which is the one in the mirror. I made choices, I did what I did for reasons that are finally clear to me and I blame no one else. My husband died while we were in TWI but I can't even blame them; he had a horrible heart disease that he could have known about if he'd gone for check ups, etc. and I believe he'd have had the heart attack he did, regardless of their silly and foolish instructions. I can't blame Ford Motor Company if I run over a nail and my tire blows out either. I don't know........I just can't blame it on them, I try, have tried. It's part of my story, I get that; they'll always be part of my story, but I chose, I decided. Maybe all of our dynamics are unique and there's so much more to why things happened. I certainly hold TWI a smidge accountable for some things, like trashing my husband's name after he died, holding him up as an example; they did that of their own choice. My life is in a place not necessarily because of TWI but because of the choices I made to stay with them. Having said all that, I know that it's not the case for everyone, just me and it's something I think about a lot and question all of this stuff.

doingjustfinethankyou, I see you've come to the battle of wits unarmed.

Welcome to Greasespot Cafe doingjustfinethankyou Your post here reminds me of the "every and never" words again. I don't see where Jeff blames others for every bad thing in his life. Every bad thing? Sometimes when someone expects others to take accountability for their actions that altered our life other say "you chose to be there, why blame them". That is an excuse, again, so that the one excusing doesn't have to interact, consider, converse or, perhaps, help. Read what he's said, he lost his wife ! His marriage ! Why would he not want someone to have some sort of accountability for that massive loss in his life? Could he have walked away and given up and not fought for his wife and marriage and their son? Sure he could have and likely saved himself a helluvalot of grief and torment, but it seems to me he's got more integrity and scrap in him than that. Then he'd be accused of "allowing it to happen" or some other silliness. He took vows with a woman he loved and they bore a son; that's not a small deal and he had every right to not accept the loss of either. I believe that blame is a good thing; maybe it's the word we don't like: blame. Call it whatever works, but he has the right to understand and put the spotlight on those that harmed, hurt, wracked and ruined his, and it seems many others', lives. And by all accounts continue to do so. Why not? Wouldn't you? Would you lie down and watch your family be ripped out from under your heart and just say "ho hum, whatever"? I hope not. These forums are tricky in that we can't know a whole lot about a person unless we hang here quite a bit and get a feel for their words, ideas, watch for consistency, and listen with our reading, as it were. So much for my introduction to you; I do welcome you here. And add that this is the My Story section of this forum; of course implying that it's that person's story. Unless you or I or anyone has actually lived a part of the writers life, we can't possibly refute or contradict or argue with their telling, can we? Jeff has been given the freedom, here, to tell his story and he's done so with the information he's got, in fact looking for discussion and exchange, but not to be confused with argument of his facts. I'd bet if you told one of your life's stories here, you attempt to do so with the assurance that it's your story and therefore you hold the copyright to it, by default, 'cuz it's yours; who's to argue with you. Am I to assume by your 'get your facts straight' comment that you are familiar with Jeff and his story? Then, by all means, share as he's invited. Again, when we write out a story in a forum such as this, we do have to practice some form of edit for the sake of time, the readers attention span and our own other obligations. I'm 50 years old and if I were to tell EVERY fact of my story, there would be much snoring; it's just too long. I know, you would suggest that he "tell the story he's told here" with his facts straight. I would again say 'how do you know'. Get a life. Why is that the quickest retort available; seems like one of those "get over it" excuses, rather than actually giving someone the courtesy of your time and consideration to his story. Get spellcheck. Read his posts and you'll see how often he edits for "spelling and clarity". Again, isn't it rather unkind to make such a comment as "get spellcheck". Perhaps you are an Editor by trade and spelling errors pizz you off. Understandable but still not neighborly to point out anothers' errors. I add again, we don't really know each other here, save for a small handful of those that have met, or have been hanging here and elsewhere before Greasespot, so we only have each other's written words with which to get aquainted. We have to exercise patience and kindness. If someone chooses to tell their story around here, it's not how they do it, it's that they do it. That, as I understand it, is the purpose of this part of the forum. Get to know us, wander around and see that we're not perfect, there are not a whole lot of judgement calls in this part of the forum. Alot of Greasespot Cafe, in my opinion, is telling what happened, with the eye toward finding the places our experiences fit in our life so that we can live with them and not err on the same side again OR telling what happened so as to perhaps assist another in not having it happen to them. One voice can carry a long way towards healing if that's what is needed, understanding which is always helpful and clarity as needed. Regardless, it's his story, my story and you have one; tell us.

http://sowersonline.com/default.aspx">S.O.W.E.R.S. If you can look past the pictures of the dude dressed in a cow costume on his hands and knees or tied to a tree limb, you can find a couple of contact numbers on their site. I also PM'd you Doug's private email, as well.

Even though I've read this elsewhere before you shared with us here, this one just kills me, still and maybe always........ This arrogance reminds me why I don't like the words 'always' and 'never' when we speak to others or refer to ourselves. He says you've "never once.." and my question to him would be how he could possibly know that. And therein also lies his assumption that you want to "fix anyone else". How could he possibly know your motive or intent if he won't participate in some form of communication exchange. He paints you with a terribly wide brush, if ya ask me. Maybe he can go the cowards journey and run back a few times, as witnessed in the exchange you have put here, hollar a few ill placed accusations and ASSumptions then run again, but I think we already know that it's sneaky and fearful and such a pizzpoor way of dealing with uncomfortable situations. I've been looking for another place to use the word douchenozzle and I think it fits here. (edited cuz the cussing thing would not let me say urine)

I think, over the last days, I've figured out what I mean more clearly. I'm their mother, I need to get to choose what of my life or certainly the life of their deceased father they hear. Understandably, I can not nor would I ever want to keep them in some protective bubble; my children are realists, not by choice and they've been told the truth as it pertains to them individually and the given situation since they could understand the language of love and truth. When someone else makes the choice for me, for them, to divulge things, that's when I'm piXsed off as a mama. One of my baby's is almost 28 years old and living on her own, so of course I have no "control" over her information; don't want to. But I'm still her mama and I still want to protect her and certainly the memory of her dead father where and when I can. The realist in each of them was taught by me and the reality is that I can't control it and it makes me mad. Alot of what I wrote in My Story here I had to tell them first; I had no problem with that and there wasn't alot of new information for them. I just want to choose what I tell them about me or the man they knew as daddy who can't defend himself. That's really it.

Roy, I dig that you are putting some of your story here, keep it comin' will ya? The best part is that it's YOUR story and no one can tell it like you; the best. In our house we pray for you every day. Shellon

How do we decide when to tell someone that we love a truth that we know is going to do some damage to them? Are some secrets better left there? Yes. Who the he!! are we to decide something like "I know this is going to hurt and hurt alot but I've decided you need to know it". There is something inherently twisted in that logic, if logical at all. I'm a mother of two amazing young women and I would, literally, give my own life if it meant they got to live theirs. We do that as parents, or at least we say we would, while silently hoping that choice is never given us. Emotionally it's the same way and it's tough to communicate isn't it? If my children can be spared some ugliness, I'd no sooner expose them to it on purpose than I would expose them to a weapon "so they can know what happens". If I accidently shoot myself in the foot, would I draw my kids to me and say 'look, girls this is how it happened and I'm gonna teach you something here, don't ever do........THIS' and shoot the other foot just to draw home my lesson to them? How freakin' dare I impose my life's pains on others just so they can know the truth and hope like he!! it sets them free. It's a combination of dances that the steps to are never clear. When in this life do we draw the line on speaking the truth "in love" and shutting the .... up so spare the heart and mind of someone we love? Who decides this shi+, is what I want to know. I'm usually the first one to say "tell them, are you kidding me, they have to know". I'm changing that to "don't listen to me and you do what is right for YOU". Especially ! ! and mostly if I have no idea of the particular situation I'm giving such sage advice on. Maybe they don't, maybe it's not my decision as to what you tell those you love, maybe it's ok to let the people we care about have happy thoughts and dreams about the people they love. Not maybe, but yes. I'm not so crazy about truth if it hurts people I love.

Thanks for compliments, Ron; I'm glad that you and others have found the story to be many different things, that was my hope as well as getting it out of my own head as a cathartic tool, perhaps. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The reason(s) I've not been published a long time ago are as varied as the story itself, like any of us; it's a painful process when it's ones own truth and not just a "story". It's about my daughters, it's about a man who can't defend himself, it's about people who walked in and out of my life in the process of some painful times and others who will never leave it, even if I'd prefer them to. It's about some of those people who I can't just walk away from, it's about toxic relationships and secrets that should never be told, no matter how others think it's good to. I want to decide what truth should be told about MY life and when and where. That is the good stuff about writing the book or publishing it. If I never ever ever! publish anything, but only write it for my own therapy, that should be enough; either way I get to decide. It took 10 years to even write the story here where I have relative safety and counsel if needed. It's a painful journey that I'd rather not own.