Shellon

People like those mentioned also develop an intimidation that is mixed with the arrogance and ability to work a crowd, approach an individual and command attention. It's a skill. That coupled with they way they carry themselves and presentation of money and power; people notice and give respect of some sort without even knowing if the fellah deserves it. They'll look ya square in the eyeballs, extend a confident and firm handshake that reeks of honesty and it works, it just works.

:) I've always been so proud of you, Box What joy to be your friend........

Indeed, Frank. And since his youngest daughter doesn't really remember him, we do get to tell alot of stories about the man he was.

Thank you, Twinky and Waterbuffalo (nice to see you ~!) it has been a beautiful thing for my girls. Samantha was 15 and Kelly 23 months when their father died and so having a memorial tree is important, yes. We've kicked around different ideas as to marking it, a rock, something but we also rent our home so for that reason we've kept it simply a little tree growing in our yard. We do need a place to go and do as we feel comforts us or provides us solice, yes. We were also given a gravesite at a local cemetary. We'll see what we end up doing as time goes. The daddy tree is a place where beloved pets have been buried, flowers have been planted, stories have been told. It's been run over by a snowplow, squashed by a pickup, run over by a lawnmower twice and yet it lives and grows. :) I struggle with our situation; the girls not having something in the world that says their father lived and died, but I also understand that it's not his death that did so much to their lives as it was his life.

That's a picture of her between her two grandfathers there. The kid was probably 4 before she'd not look behind any toilet before she did her thing. I'm so glad she doesn't post or read here anymore........ :blink:

When I was potty training my first child, Samantha, we lived in Oklahoma and we had Tarantulu's in the yard; she played with them. We should have just gotten the kid a dog. Anyway, into the bathroom one morning as usual, we went for her to do her thing, hopefully. She liked to be alone for this particular project which was fine by me so long as she made the expected deposits. After a few minutes I heard a two year old scream and cuz I'm the mama and her daddy was the daddy, we started our own selves and tripped over each other to get to the owner of the scream. Behind the toilet (ours, not the childs training one) there was a wall covered in little crawling pepper sized tarantula's, their proud new mama overseeing the entire process. It took nearly 6 months to get our toddler to go back into the bathroom. Baths had to be done in a large basin in the kitchen, the potty chair went into her bedroom. Enough spiders in our life, no? Well there was the time this same child, at 13, had a pet tarantula (albeit contained) for a science project; that was fun. She (her name was Rose) could only stay a short time as I was expecting our second child in months and I was not havin' it ! ha, spiders..........................

Oh hell yeah, it's about power and control. If one can make another look smaller, they think they, then look bigger. And yes, getting into another's MARRIAGE, I'll never ever understand that, either. Shame on them, just for starters.

Exactly, squirrely one

I love it 'cuz it reminds me of the tried and true 'act, don't react' kind of thing. If I don't take time to consider what it going on, where it might be coming from, look at all of the picture rather than just what I'm seeing in front of me, I'm going to miss what might be vital info to then go from there on. And never say never especially grabs my attention. Words are like rocks, once we throw them, we can not undo the throw.

Thank you, Kimberly, it's just our lives and our new normal and like so many things we adapt to it, but your thoughtfulness is appreciated. For me, I struggle with my choices and re-think things that can't be changed no matter how much I re-think; it's futile mostly. I find myself most thankful for amazing children who don't also grieve the loss of a proper place where daddy is buried, who don't lament about 'why can't we move to Ohio to be closer to daddy' or any of that. They are women of strength and understanding and good, for which I'm thankful. I'm ok with having to contact someone in a TWI office if we did choose to return, simply because I do understand it is a business, a property not my own and therefore I have to extend them the courtesy. It's a part of my choice to have his remains buried there. For now, it's what we've got but we've also got a "daddy tree", a little blue spruce planted and happily growing in memory of a good husband and father. :)

Sure, I'd have loved to stomp on some things, but I was already back in Arkansas by the time I understood what was really wrong. I would have loved to stomp on some instructions of "believe God over what your instinct tells you and ignore all common sense".

Hi Box, me too, what a shame eh? And then let us consider how they treated Don's family (siblings) when he died. They originaly gave them one hour to visit and say goodbye to their brother, then under public scrutiny and media spotlight, added 30 more minutes. It was then, for me, I wasn't shocked at anything done, said or directed at us regarding our loved ones buried there. Sad, hurt, angry, ashamed of some of my decisions, yes. edited to cite my source http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/waydale/waydale-miscellaneous/dr.-donald-e.-wierwille-burial-arrangements.html

love it, even if I'm not sure what it means. I do agree that words like 'never, always and forever' are dangerous ones in real life.

Oh, you're not talking about my leg, damn, sorry.

Thanks, everyone, for your kind words of Bob; he did take care of his wife and family. The scenerio so strikes of TWI's lack of care and concern for an ill person on their property. Did that damn spider that bit me belong to the woods of TWI? Probably not. Were they cuplable, of course not, but I was a guest in their "home" and they took serious risks not being prepared for any possible emergency that might have arisen. Stupid action; what if it had been my child or a more immediate killing spider? Uhhuh. I learned some great and painful things beyond having to have my open wounded leg scrubbed and cut and cleaned out every day. We should ! ! have taken me to an emergency room as the wound became so obviously worse. Rather we sucked it up, and went through the motions of instructions, perhaps silently knowing something was bad wrong with my leg, minimally. We didn't, I was lucky and it won't happen again, I can say that. Additionally, had it, in fact been my child, I'd have carried her on my own back to the emergency room, regardless of any leadership's chagrine or angst. It's that parent thing, eh? My leg is fine, there is a scar to remind me to listen to my own voice even if it doesn't track with others who believe they believe better than I.

I believe he was something like that, yeah. :) (edited cuz I suck at quoting)

Yeah, I loved those woods too, at first. They were beautiful, eh? Walking around, especially late night when it was much quieter, hanging in the house of his healing presence, sitting on some really great grass sitting on the porch of that little cabin...... Then I understood more of what really went on in those woods.

Hi Bolshevik, I understand your comments and concerns, truly. I am aware of another parent and her own desires regarding wanting to see the burial spot of her dead child because I, too, was invited to be part of the court proceedings and before I made my decision, I researched as completely as I found possible, needed to understand motives, other involved, why, etc. I'm afraid it would be imprudent, impolite and simply rude of me to share her name here without her permission. It was given in the newspaper articles which I do not have at my disposal at the moment; perhaps I can find that for you at another time. Yes, Mr. McMullan did mention his relationship with Mr. Wierwille, as they had what was purported to be a close, kind and good relationship back in the day and Mr. McMullan was, as are so many others, appalled at the treatment he, the mother he was assisting and others like myself were handed. Since I've told Mr. McMullan straight up I can, then tell you the same here. I opted out of acting in a court of law as a witness because I would have had to involve my children in a mess that they had no more to do with than where their daddy was buried. Additionally, my inlaws were, at that time, still very involved. So my personal agenda, if there was one, was one of concern and thought, but certainly NOT without concern and thought for the reality that those same children might not be able to visit daddy's grave if they so chose. I can not, shall not, speak for Mr. McMullan but I do understand the original idea and supported it, however he got there. If he wanted publicity, I agreed to that too, to bring it to media's light, drawing attention to those that had dead buried there and no access, perhaps. Why not? Any PR is still PR and it did do some good; TWI had some questions to answer regarding such a delicate issue as grieving family members. If I were to attempt to visit a place I believed I had proper right to visit and was denied, I'm sure media would be a high enough consideration for me as well, if for no other reason than to draw attention. Heck, I'm asking media to come to a school board meeting in three weeks as I anticipate some uncomfortable Board Members that we want answers from and we believe they'll feel more required to if a camera is pointed in their direction and we're not getting anything on our own. Mr. McMullan took a shot and it didn't go exactly as planned, but he did take a shot and for that I'm grateful, as are my children. I'll assume that you do not have a loved one buried there and count you as fortunate in that regard; truly, blessed to not have to say to your children, for instance, that they can not visit a parents grave because of sheer mean-ness on the part of religious leaders. If you were to be in that place, as I am, you and I both could now answer them with something to the effect of "yes you can visit, but there is a policy in place for that particular property because it's private". (say that three times fast :) ) Best case scenerio it is not, but it's what we have and it's better than nothing. As for me and my children, we'll take it and say thank you.

Thank you JT, it's appreciated. In hindsight, might I have done differently, I can't really say. As I've said, he loved that place and it was some honor then. Life is good, we've found our new normals for our family and each as individuals, we're happy. :)

I do not feel that publicity was the goal. He was, in part, attempting to help a young mother who's infant was interred on the grounds and she wanted to visit. TWI property is private property, as much as if I were expected to allow someone to enter my property when ever they wished to do so. Doesn't seem right to us, I know that, but it is. Would seem that our Abundant Sharing provided for years should give us freedom to do as we pleased, especially those of us that have a loved one interred there. Seems like it, but it's not so. TWI, to my understanding, entered into an agreement, court ordered or not, that states that we can visit when we wish so long as we call ahead and ask them to put on the coffee, we're staying awhile. Just like I'd hope someone would do if they wished to enter my property for any reason. Do I or my children like it? Certainly not, but it is where we agreed to have the man interred and I knew going into the agreement with them that it was not public. It's not like I can say now "hey!" Additionally, cremated remains are not as much my "property" as if there were a body buried. There was no contract signed, there was no agreement discussed, as it were, like a cemetary would offer.

Found it! In the edite profile option it's under "member title" to change it.

We moved some of the site dirt, yes. Five years after the burial, but at least the dirt, with their permission.

Kind of early for that, lets imagine those are coffee cups. :) Happy Birthday Andy, I hope it's a great day Shellon and Kelly