Shellon

I signed the check before I got to fellowship and just gave it to em blank. Or just opened my purse and let em take it. They were gonna find out and take it anyway.

Now you're getting it

Paw, we want to know, we definately want to know. Dish mister!

Steve, are my family and yours related? :)--> My parents and brothers waited.... patiently? for me to come to my senses and get outa there. I had already come to my senses years before but like you and so many, I was NOT breaking my marriage vows, period. Lets not even mention risking losing my babies. Thank God my mom, dad and brothers didn't know the full story or knowing them, there would have been some messy actions. They waited while I lied to them and they knew it. They played along while I kept my secrets and they knew it. They waited while I played TWI's game and turned away one of my brothers. They waited when my husband died and they couldn't go to his memorial service. (ok that scene was pretty nasty, but they restrained themselves more than they could have). They accepted that they'd not get a chance to say goodbye to their only son in law. TWI stole much from my family. They were there when I called them and said 'will you come get us'? :)-->

lol Z, ya silly. excath,you don't have to do anything you don't wanna do.

hee hee Kathy. The Alice Cooper thing was a 1970 something event where I won tickets to see the show and go backstage because I spelled 'supercalifragilisticexpiallidosis' correctly in some contest. No idea if I just spelled it right this time. He walked off stage, flew past us, kissing people; I happened to be standing there. Mostly alot of spit and sweat. And my brother, who I took with me hollaring GROSS!

I called my grandparents, all four of them, grandma and grandpa. My children call their grandmothers ( my mom and step mom) grandma and their grandfathers (my dad and step dad) grandpa. I called one of my grandmothers by her first name once and got spanked. My girls also call them Mamooli and Papooli, the greek for grandma and grandpa. I want my grandson to call me granny. :)-->

Ok Dove, this is america

The IRS............GUFFAW! Perfect

10. I drink juice straight out of the carton sometimes. 9. It takes 4 alarm clocks just to get me to the snooze part of morning 8. I was kissed by Alice Cooper

Ya wanna?

The dude is delusional. When they take him to court, they should also charge his wife and his preacher and his God. Oh and his therapist.

http://www.courttv.com/people/2005/0106/fearfactor_ctv.html

Try to get a straight answer outa the man.

The woman had a psychotic explosion when she held each of her babies in the water until they died. Noone, not even this woman, knows the pain she was living. I don't care what any tv show says. Her husband knew 'something' was wrong with her and he'd spent his time arguing with the mental health professionals to get her help and he believed them. We want to believe our doctors when they tell us it's ok, do this or that. We don't really know her or his background, upbringing, belief system. This woman also hid her psychosis really really well. She was the perfect mother, the perfect wife, the perfect neighbor. Her community was aghast, shocked! at her actions. Noone that knew her could have predicted this of her. AS ex-cult people, I'm surprised that isn't easier to understand. Husbands in TWI alot of time have no idea their wife is beyond miserable, cuz she can't/won't tell him, cuz he can't/won't listen. Or the other side of the table. Yet more often than not when the wife in twi leaves, behaves badly, divorces, whatever the husband is shocked and held culpable by the leadership. Women, as a whole, don't talk, in these situations. It's not her husband's 'fault', it just is the way it is because she doesn't think she'll be believed, heard or anyone will give a dang and take action anyway. Alot of time mental illness doesn't have a thing to do with it. Then factor in our system that people keep saying works. This woman had done something that set the mental health world on it's ear with such shock, horror, confusion. How many meetings did her therapist have to sit through with his boss or attorneys going over notes, for their own protection? "Is there anything in her visits/hospitalizations that shows we should have known she'd kill her children?" Probably not. What was her family like growing up? Did her parents live an isolated life as well, was it told her from day one that she serve her husband, have all the babies he wants and like it? Thank God we can't understand this woman or her life; I sure wouldn't want to be able to say 'oh yeah, I feel like that, I get her'. If that were the case, if one of us knew of such a person, knew the family, her husband, lived with or around them......I wonder if we'd be so quick to judge him. She was like my neighbor, yours. Look next door to you, can you fathom this horror happening there? Would you blame him if she did such a horrendous thing? Postpartum depression is powerful!! When I experienced this with both my babies, it scared hell outa me. The second baby was while in TWI and no way was I going to tell them some of the stuff I was feeling. Like everything else, one learns to deal with it, move on and keep the mouth shut. My husband didn't know either. But most women don't act on the delusions and kill their babies. Andrea Yates did. The system couldn't save those kids, her husband couldn't. In the system the way it is today, would they have believed him had he taken a meeting and said "I think she's fixin to kill our children, I see it in her eyes or something".? Sadly there are many more of these messes where mama's kill their babies cuz God told em to, a spider crossed ones hand with a message to kill her children, one cut off her baby's arms. Each one had psychotic meltdowns that thankfully none of us could begin to understand. I'm sure Mr Yates will blame himself for the rest of his sad life. He's had to have gone through the pains of wondering why he trusted the mental health professional, why he didn't "know what was going to happen". We believe the therapists, the doctors. We are not the ones that spend the years and years studying this information, they are, so we believe them when they tell us what we need. It's not an exact science and they are learning things every day. On another strange note, should Andrea Yates be help accountable for the mothers who followed her example and killed their babies in the years since she did? And now Park Deitz's practice is going to take a massive hit from his giving this wrong information on the stand, causing this mess. What should he be held accountable for?

Vic to what are you referring when she said she was excited? During her trial, recently?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/21/...ain630822.shtml Scary dang! Park Dietz made errors when he testified. They say she won't be released.

Since this is started, I sure hope it IS his birthday.

Or isn't it? Saturday the 8th? Friday the 7th?

Delta is having massive savings on flights right now. I just booked a flight with them for July, round trip and with their deals and student discount, the final price was shameful! :D--> As instructors ya'll might like www.studentuniverse.com offers on travel discounts.

..."Please, please don't put yourself through that about your husband... " TheHighway, thank you for your words of kindness and encouragement. Let me add that I really don't beat myself up over this issue. I knew at the time(s) I tried that what I was trying to convey to him were correct and he 'should' turn his ear to me. Indeed it was his loss, but my burden to carry. There is no blame in that situation. He was in a strange position where, in retrospect, I know he couldn't hear me even if he wanted to and had he done so, there would have been little, if anything, he could do. I learned pretty quickly in TWI how to play the TWI game; I was one of the lucky ones. As time passes and the new normal fits better, I understand that he knew the rules too. What might have been differant had we had a conversation that included telling the other things we knew? I've said that I believe TWI contributed to his death, a statement that keeps getting me in trouble, but it's what I stand on. And while we're on this subject, let me say publically that I never have said anywhere that his family or TWI killed him. This keeps coming up. His family loved him. TWI fuked him over.

Cknapp, Chuck, Chuckie. Whatever ya call him, his birthday is January 6 :D--> Happy Day Chuck

Belle, peek at your PT please.

Hi Belle I left you a PT. :)-->

:D-->