jen-o

whitedove, you absolutely did NOT answer my question! because you evidently CANNOT answer my question... there was NO norm (and bride has so thoroughly explained the reasons why)... thank you, bride! you cannot answer the question by telling me what the norm is NOT... UNLESS you first specify what the norm IS... and this you flat out REFUSE do to by hiding behind your misunderstanding of what the word "norm" means... if you cannot delineate what the the "norm" (or normal, typical behavior used to "correct" children) was, then the honest thing to do would be to say so... not hide behind your misunderstanding of a definition... if the "norm" changes for something, then guess what, it's no longer the "norm"... btw, whitedove, do you even have children?... i DO... and twi leadership advocated ABUSE while calling it "correction"... it is the REASON i LEFT twi!! because i REFUSED to follow twi's ABUSIVE child-rearing practices!!! so stick your head in the sand some more, whitedove...

lisa, thank you for sharing this... xo whitedove, sometimes ignorance is bliss...

in legal terms, this analogy/argument is NOT on point... the analogy falls short on so MANY levels... not the least of which is that macy's does not pretend to lead people to eternal life... nor does macy's pretend to have all the answers to spiritual questions... nor do false prophets disguise themselves as macy's sales clerks... no, false prophets tend to hang out in "spiritual" organizations (usually at the top)... and try to cover themselves with the sheep's clothing... a prolonged experience of interaction (with a false prophet and his organization) consisting of multiple events over an extended period of time (in some cases, years) is NOT the same thing as a single, one time event involving a rude sales clerk... whitedove, are you telling me that you don't think we need to WARN the sheep about the WOLVES??

hi excie, you're a sweetheart...

whitedove (or CG, if those are his original words), the "well worn path" leads straight to h3ll..."for strait is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW there be that find it" if you think that following a false prophet/false teacher leads to anywhere but h3ll, you have a surprise coming... the "well worn path" is NOT the path you want to be on! wow... what a telling sentence THIS is... first off, whoever wrote it, evidently, cannot even bring themselves to say that Christ paid the price for sin! instead, it reads as: God "paid the price" with His "manufactured Christ" (you know, via that convoluted manufactured sperm in the egg story) whoever wrote this sentence does NOT know the Lord, and the price HE paid... (if i were you, i would not claim this sentence, whitedove) further, re: "what would be the value in a continued exposé" of SIN? the value of exposing sin is to WARN the sheep about the WOLVES!! shalom to all, jen-o

who's got the agenda, whitedove?? i asked you one simple question, and you couldn't (or wouldn't) answer it...

are you referring to the "brown stains" that twi made on christianity?

oldies, why would you feel humiliated by this post?!? one would only feel humiliated if one thought their position (or actions) were wrong...

pawtucket, aren't you the main mod?

oldies, i did not mention you by name... but i did tell you on another thread, that although i would not directly call you anything... i most definitely would continue to point out and speak out against idolatrous behavior... and i stuck by that agreement... oldies, if the shoe fits....... (and you don't like it)... perhaps, you should try on a different shoe... peace, jen-o p.s. the point being made, oldies, is that IF it was NOT sexual in nature, then why do you consider it homosexual in nature if the very same "innocent buttocks-massage" request were made to you by vpw??

there IS evidence for that! that is what grooming is!! you just don't want to see it!! if a 55 year old woman in a position of power (the utmost position as the spokesperson for God Himself) asked you as a 20-year-old to massage her drambouie-soaked buttocks, and lay beside you with her arm around you, it most definitely WOULD be a vile and disgusting thing to request, as well as an ABUSE of power... btw, this is the same kind of logic the muslims use to defend their pedophile prophet, muhammad, who married a 6-year-old girl named ayisha, and consumated the "marriage" with her when she was 8-years-old... they say "she consented" to the marriage...

so a "homosexual" suggestion is somehow worse than a lewd, lascivious, lecherous, grooming suggestion toward a young innocent girl who looks up to the man (who is making the suggestion) as a "man of god"?!? the "homosexual" suggestion is vile... but the lewd, lascivious, lecherous, grooming suggestion is NOT vile?!? what kind of logic is this?!? when people are confronted with their idolatry and illogical reasoning due to it, they become offended and act like injured victims... and then (indignantly) refuse to respond anymore... hmmmm... p.s. maybe some people "are used to that kind of stuff"... (stuff=lewd, grooming suggestions) maybe that's why it doesn't bother them...

hmmmm.... interesting copenhagen... back in 1997 (my last year in twi, 2nd stint), a new class came out to replace pfal... i don't remember the name of the class, but i remember referring to it with a shorter appellation over the phone with the branch coordinator, and he just about had a cow that i didn't say all the words in the title of the class... talk about legalism, or nit-picking, or frustrating the grace of God, etc. etc. i can see how the term "twig" wouldn't go over too well... peace, jen-o

NOT EVER! we ought to obey God and NOT man! true shepherds always point the flock toward Jesus... they do NOT give out orders to obey... EVER!

wow... i can't believe we are having this conversation about whether or not it is a sin for a lewd, lascivious, lecherous old man (who claims to be a man of "god") to GROOM a potential victim for further sexual exploitation!! and vpw's actions fall under the category of GROOMING!! you have to be spiritually blind not to know that this kind of behavior is wrong... even non-christians KNOW that it is wrong! for someone who calls themselves a christian to defend this behavior is outrageous, and defending such disgustingly lecherous acts is what gives the true christians a bad name... it reminds me of that passage in scripture where paul chastizes the corinthians: It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. this could just as easily read: it is reported commonly that there are lewd, lascivious, lecherous acts being performed among you, and such acts as are not so much as named among the non-christians, that a lewd, lascivious, lecherous old man (who calls himself a man of 'god') should GROOM young innocent girls of the flock of God for further sexual exploitation...... OUTRAGEOUS that anyone should defend such behavior!! there is only one way to explain such a spiritually blind position and that is via IDOLATRY... when one idolizes a lewd, lascivious, lecherous, old man, then one finds it necessary to defend his lewd, lascivious, lecherous behavior... and claim that there is nothing wrong with it (gag)... when we all give an account of our actions to God, do you think that vpw will be praised for this?!? do you think God will say: well done, thou good and faithful servant?!?... thank you for taking care of my sheep?!? you gotta be nuts to think that God condones this! (or else you gotta have a different "god"... and that's called IDOLATRY)

hey roy! i bet you didn't know this one post of yours was gonna cause quite a stir... LOL :) peace, jen-o

which is kinda why i asked whitedove: "what is the norm?"... i thought if he gave it some thought that he would realize that there really was NO "norm", and that people had a wide variety of experiences in twi... but instead, he avoided my question with vocab and grammar lessons... and then gave me some VAGUE answer about"correction".....

trance-inducing Jesus worship?? hand-waving?? what the heck are you taking about??? i think you've lost it...

wow... i'm just shaking my head here at your inability to understand the english language (and my printed words) in general, this is the kind of thing that happens when people allow others to do their thinking for them... i'd try to sort it out for you, but i feel like i'm beating a dead horse... ciao, jen-o

((((copenhagen)))) you're breaking my heart... i feel like i'm watching a caged bird sing... a bird who longs to be free... hugs, jen-o

oldies, let me just say that i will not call YOU idolatrous... however, if i see someTHING that looks idolatrous, i will say so (and i will provide the reasons why i think that) is that better? peace, jen-o

well.... i'm not gonna tap dance around the issue of idolatry! a person does not have to say "i worship money" in order for someone to realize that they do... people look at your behavior, actions, words you post, etc. and are able to see who worships what... if i see something that looks idolatrous, then i'm gonna say so... i'll repeat what i said earlier: if the shoe fits.......... (and i sincerely hope it doesn't)! peace, jen-o

did you just call those two "brothers in Christ"?!? speak for yourself, oldies; i categorically deny that a false prophet is a "brother in Christ"!! and to consider him as such is an outrage (imo)... also, as doojable has pointed out: they knew and did NOTHING!! THAT is what i consider true madness!! (and they claimed to be ministers of the truth) gag! oldies, they are definitely culpable (whether you want to give them a free pass or not) there is such a thing as "reckless disregard for life" and it is ILLEGAL!

hey rottiegrrrl! do you have a comparable picture to show the fellows? (i have 3 teenage boys that i'd like to make a statement to) LOL peace, jen-o

hey oak, i hear ya... it's just another straw man argument... and a way to avoid what i'm really saying... hey ham-ster, i was just telling someone that if vpw said the sky was blue, i would have to go check it for myself... LOL hey roy, THANK YOU for posting your teaching on "false prophets" and for citing all the scripture references... :) peace to all, jen-o