jen-o

hey excie, i was using the dots (ellipsis) before waydale... btw, if folks really want to see some mud-slinging, they should check out the "few big things about pfal" thread... (which is on page 6 of the "way" forum... and which was never shut down) but, the wc link thread was tame by comparison! peace, jen-o

ummm, that would be my comment...perhaps, you should go back and read the reasons why i said that... you have twisted my words, and made quite the assumption... i am not asking God to damn CA (i ask God to have mercy on them)... the title of this thread is: "God bless california"... and my point is that it is unreasonable to expect God to bless something that He is against... God has already given His opinion about homosexuality (as previously noted in my post #28) my problem is not semantic...i object to homosexuality on the grounds that it is an unbiblical practice... i also object to adultery for the same reason, but no one calls me a religious bigot for that! ummm, i guess i would be considered a fundamentalist christian...and i refuse to apologize for my beliefs! even though this term is used as if it is some kind of disease... yes, i believe that homosexuality is a sin... but it is not a matter of not liking homosexuals; it is the behavior i object to... just as i have an objection to adulterous behavior... i do not object to people! Jesus came to save people... but that doesn't mean that i whitewash sin... everyone in the country is allowed to believe whatever they want... and liberals would tolerate any belief system... except for christian fundamentalism... that the liberals can't tolerate... i don't force my beliefs on others... but surely i should be allowed to express them! i don't try to legislate my beliefs... although the homosexual lobby is definitely trying to legislate their belief system... even to the point of "hate crimes/hate speech"... which has the effect of silencing the expression of my belief system! and thereby forcing their worldview down my throat! but i'm sure you don't have a problem with that... peace, jen-o

maybe it's just me, but the pictures of vpw creep me out...

hey dmiller! do you know the folks in that video?

evidently, nottadamnthing...whitedove, this is the 2nd time you have accused me of not wanting to address something or answer your questions... yet. both times i have responded in detail, and you have completely ignored what i said... methinks that you are the one who is avoiding things... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ chockfull, thank you for your clear response... and for pointing out the example of public exposure of individual sexual sin in 1st Cor 5... peace, jen-o

oakspear, excellent analysis! God is the source... every man can manifest the spirit... and there are 9 ways the spirit can be manifested... but, that does not mean one can logically deduce: "all nine all the time"... (vpw took a leap to that conclusion)... hey, what else is new, eh? peace, jen-o p.s. heheheh... where's this "original" that wth seems to think he has access to??

gee, bride, this is exactly what i said in my first post on this thread...(which i thought you were objecting to... but now i see we both agree... :D ) apology accepted... :) peace, jen-o

wth, you strain at a gnat... and swallow a camel...

rhino, sounds like they might have more chiefs than indians, eh? peace, jen-o

hey sunesis! as i was reading this thread, i had the very same thought... and the first word that came to me was: projection... personally, i don't see the need to sexualize the original sin... i know it was a sin of pride and disobedience... and that's good enough for me... caveman, so they are down to 600 members?... that's a good thing! perhaps they will eventually die off... and the wierwille kingdom will become a faded memory... chockfull, there's a new class called FNC? what does FNC stand for? peace to all, jen-o

ummm, whitedove... you've accused me of this before (i.e. that i didn't want to address scripture)... and when i did answer all your questions and comments (in my post #202), you completely ignored my answers... so what's gonna be different about it this time?? i tried to give you the benefit of the doubt... but i guess you really don't want any information... from the sound of your last post, it doesn't look like you know too much about Jesus... because he definitely DID SOUND THE ALARM and give MANY CLEAR WARNINGS... afterall, He IS THE SHEPHERD... and that's what shepherds do: warn people about danger... (i don't know why you are stuck on herod... he's kinda obvious... people need to be warned about the more subtle dangers of those in spiritual "leadership" positions, such as pharisees... which Jesus gave repeated clear warnings about... but you seem to be stuck on a political figure??) are these the questions that you are referring to?? they don't seem like honest questions at all... just more mocking... that is why i said that you don't understand what a watchman is or does... and why you don't understand the analogy of "the shepherd"... if you really want to know what a watchman is called to do, then read ezekiel!! in any case, all of your questions are answered in this verse (which you evidently ignored... you seem to ignore a lot of things, whitedove) On Your Walls O Jerusalem I Have Appointed Watchmen; All Day And All Night they Will Never Keep Silent. (Isaiah 62:8) and yes, while exposing the false prophets and false teachers, one will of necessity expose their "sins"... as for this question, it is really a nonsensical statement that can only be understood in the context of "way" theology... the verb "believe/believing" needs an object... believe greater in what?/enemy of believing in what?? peace, jen-o

i thought of vpw when i read it... at least martindale got some judgement in this life... and therefore, has a shot at repentance... but those who are not judged in this lifetime, must be judged sometime (and one cannot repent after he is gone)... the judgement that comes after this life is far worse... i don't envy vpw...

rascal, i love The Shepherd! :) peace, jen-o

whitedove, it is clear that you do not know what a watchman is... it's also clear that you do not understand the analogy of the shepherd... ezekiel is a good example of a watchman (perhaps you should read the book of ezekiel) isaiah is another example of a watchman... if you read what these men did, you will get a good idea of what watchmen are called to do... On Your Walls O Jerusalem I Have Appointed Watchmen; All Day And All Night they Will Never Keep Silent. (Isaiah 62:8) here is a list of current watchmen... (perhaps you would like to check out their websites and see what they do) The Berean Call (Dave Hunt & Tom McMahon) Jacata Ministries (David Lister) Believers In Grace (Bill Randles) National Prayer Network (Mark Haville) Belfast Berean (Mark McAlister) Media Spotlight (Al Dagger) The Sentinel (Jacky & Bill Alnor) Vanguard (Siam Bayhro) CWM (Philip Powell) Eddy Cheong Ministries (Dr. Eddy Cheong) St. Matthew Publishing (Philip Foster) Intercessors For Britain (Ray Borlaise, Stuart Dule) PWM (Clifford Hill & David Noakes) Ed Tarkowski Ministries (Ed Tarkowski) Spirit of 88 (Michael De Semlyn) Living Word (Gary Hall) Bread Upon the Water (Bill Brehm) Christian Voice (Stephen Green) Banner Ministries(Trish & Jon Tillin) Light For the Last Days (Tony Pearce) Take Heed Ministries (Cecil Andrews) Come Let Us Reason (Mike Oppenheimer) Watchman Fellowship (James Walker, Bob Anderson) Personal Freedom Outreach (Dick Fisher) Spiritual Counterfeit Project (Tal Brooks) Alpha and Omega Ministries (James White) Utah Lighthouse Ministry (Jerald Tanner) Reach Out Trust (Doug Harris) Discernment in the Church (Sandy Simpson) the tone of your post is mocking... you appear to be mocking the ministry of a watchman and what he does (which is WARN people) however, perhaps you do it out of ignorance... so i am gonna give you the benefit of the doubt... and that is why i have tried to point you in a direction for you to check these things out for yourself... peace, jen-o

cynic, who is this "internet hack"? and why are you speaking for him?

bfh posted: well, i was kinda interested about what you wrote... and so i wanted to check it out for myself... and what i found was that you didn't quite give us the whole story here... in fact, i would like to add some information that seems to NEGATE your original statement about it not being instinctive for the actual parent to care more... so evidently it is NOT the ACTUAL PARENT who is killing its own offspring in most cases... from these examples in nature, it appears that most killing of young animals is the work of UNRELATED members of the same species, who in fact do it toprotect their OWN OFFSPRING... so this reference to nature shows the opposite of what you intended... it does appear that it is instinctive for the actual parent to care more about the kids!

well, i can't speak for everyone else, but as for myself, i am definitely "as passionately against" adultery, divorce, the porn industry, etc. etc... if there is a thread about those issues, i will speak up against them as well... you don't think that if someone posted a thread that said 'God bless adultery' or 'God bless the porn industry' that i wouldn't speak up about that? in fact, i'm sure there would be even more outrage than anything posted on this thread... and the point is?... i never said that homosexuality is worse than adultery... what makes people think that because i speak out about homosexuality that somehow means i condone adultery (or any other sin)

wow, bfh, look who's having the tantrum... :blink: (especially in your 1st 2 posts to me) i guess you didn't like some things i said, eh? (as noted by your 4 different posts regarding my 1 post) perhaps you missed my first post on this topic (post#28) wherein i elaborated on the reasons why God was not gonna bless this legal decision... it's because God has already given his opinion on homosexual behavior... and i gave a few places you could find said opinion... i could list them again if you like, but folks don't usually like to read His opinion on this matter... (perhaps you want to go back and check out post #28 for a reference point) my thinking on this is that God is NOT gonna bless something that He doesn't like... or bless a state (ca) on the basis of its passage of legislation in favor of something that He is against... i don't have an "attitude" toward gays... i know you find that hard to believe... but quite frankly, what you believe does not concern me... i treat everybody with the same dignity and respect (and friendliness)... but that doesn't mean i like their behavior... nor does it mean i am gonna remain silent about God's opinion... even if you do throw a tantrum while claiming that my God is like you in that respect... God says that homosexual behavior is against nature... (see post #28 or romans 1:26)... now who do you think i'm gonna trust and believe: you and your opinions (and wikipedia) or God and His opinion? peace, jen-o

bride, where are you getting this idea from? i never said that you couldn't... if you read what i wrote, i said that christians could be "oppressed" but not "possessed"...in fact, i'm not sure you read what i wrote at all... you write: and how exactly does this disagree with what i said... which is, that a christian cannot be "possessed"... you yourself admit that the demon would move once a person becomes a christian...so are you saying a christian CAN be possessed or CAN'T be possessed?? well... i can't correct you, i don't remember the specifics of this class, and i don't have the syllabus... all i know is that all the wafers that i was around used the term "possessed" for both believers and non-believers... so whatever vpw's thinking was, in practice, the term "possessed" was applied to BOTH christians and non-christians indiscriminately... and i was led to believe while IN twi that christians could become "possessed"... this is quite an assumption, bride... because i don't agree with you, you want to label my thinking as way-like... you don't know me very well!... and i don't think that is a very honest way to have a discussion by labeling the other person's thoughts as ingrained with "twi terminology" (especially when i've told you otherwise)... if you want to disagree, then disagree on the merits of what i say and NOT by trying to discredit me with a presumptuous label...peace, jen-o

well... i'll try to bring it back on topic...God is not gonna "bless" california because of this legal decision... God has already given his opinion on homosexuality (as previously noted)... hey, little ham-ster... this is not a matter of "demonization" (although i do note that the use of this language term is powerful... as well as the term "scapegoat")personally, i do not believe that homosexuals have cornered the market on what is "really wrong in america"... i have also had the same experience... they have the potential to be parents IF they use heterosexual people's children... (or perhaps if they use a "donor" or sperm bank... which in that case (as rhino has already pointed out) they have already created a "broken home" by definition... we definitely are changing our society by redefining basic words like "marriage" and "parenting"... IF this really were the case, then all of those species listed would be extinct...and clearly, there are no cases in the animal world where same sex animals mate and raise offspring... that's because homosexuality is against nature... this is absolutely an experiment...and in the cases i know of, an experiment gone bad... i know of cases where homosexuals adopted children... and even at the young age of 7 and 8, those children are in counseling for a variety of issues... looky here!... i agree with whitedove! peace, jen-o

p.s. obviously, his teachings include his practices... because that is what he taught by example... oh, and THE SHEPHERD is obviously Jesus!

dot, i agree... Melchizedek, king of Salem, was Jesus, Prince of Peace! :) jen-o

whitedove,i already answered this in post #173... the danger exists not only in the physical body of vpw, but LIVES ON thru his teachings and false doctrine! this is what we are warning the sheep about! this is what we seek to dismantle! ESPECIALLY since there are those who seek to put a pro-twi spin on things... as i have previously stated: i do not believe that the teachings and doctrine of vpw led to anyone being born again... (as i also previously stated: IF anyone got born again while in twi, it was IN SPITE OF twi not BECAUSE OF twi) twi did NOT know Jesus... and Jesus is the door to eternal life! so i think it is VERY important to WARN people about this mad prophet and his teachings! whether he is dead or alive makes no difference!! if you think that because vpw is dead that his teachings are no longer any threat, then you are sadly mistaken...

whitedove, you don't have a clue on what my life's mission is...

rhino, i agree with you... language is powerful... and categorizing something as a "basic, fundamental right" makes it more powerful... abbie, you really think that having access to birth control is the same thing as practicing homosexual acts?? i don't... shalom to all, jen-o