jen-o

well... i didn't see the show (but thanks to shell) i did get to see it on youtube... :) ex10, i am not surprised at all by american idol's use of this "christian" song... (especially since they censored the name of Jesus in the first show)... in fact, i would predict that you will see more of this kind of thing as time goes on... the reason i say that is because there is currently a huge move to merge all religions together... the ecumenical movement is pushing to unite all religions (under the banner of interfaith cooperation)in order to solve the problems of the world... (it's the 3rd legged stool of rick warren's p.e.a.c.e. plan)... there is a focus on co-existence, and the "one-ness" of all religions... there is a push for a universal "faith" where all religious belief systems are accepted, and tolerance among all ideologies is promoted... except... except for exclusive ideologies that state such things as "Jesus is the Only Way to God"... that will NOT be tolerated! the current church is the laodicean church (and they are asleep at the wheel)... they do not even recognize that they are laodicean (they need eye salve acc. to rev. 3:18)... they are lukewarm for Jesus, and they are joining together with the world religions on the way to babylon (that's babylon, mystery religion, the mother of all harlots)... yep, the lukewarm laodicean church is merging with all the religions of the world to form a global religion (that is spoken about in the book of rev.) and along the way, they will need to redefine "christianity" and reinvent Jesus Christ... which thing they are currently in the midst of... this "new christianity" has a form of godliness, but denies the power of the cross of Jesus Christ... (and the secular world doesn't want to talk about Jesus too much)... however, the deception is now taking on christian overtones by using christian terms - like "christ-consciousness"... so although this new "global religion" will be borrowing terms from christianity, those terms will NOT have the same meaning as they do biblically... they will be using christian terms, but with different meanings and different definitions... (oprah is real good at doing this while promoting new agers who offer dramatically different meanings for biblical terms) anyway, a great deception is covering the earth (as Jesus warned would happen in the last days)... and a one-world religious system is currently being formed while the laodicean church sleeps (or worse, sometimes takes an active role in this) well... you asked for "any thoughts?" so, no, i am not surprised by american idol's use of this song - either with or without the name of Jesus... peace, jen-o p.s. i do like the original song with its original intent and focus on Jesus! (and i don't know how anyone can think that is creepy) (edited to add my p.s.)

well..... i'm gonna give you some motherly advice... =:~D (although it may not be too popular... LOL) i have 3 teenage boys (one of them your age), and if one of them came to me with this situation, this is what i would say: look, honey, you're young; you're only 18... you met a girl online (it's probably not the 1st time, and it probably won't be the last)... sure, it's fun to chat and exchange ideas online... but you really don't know someone thru an online relationship!... why get involved in a long distance relationship at such a young age?... relationships are difficult enough, and long distance relationships are even harder... honey, i think you need to find people to interact with here in town (where you will have real life interactions, and not just via a computer)... i do not think that it is wise to become emotionally attached to someone via a computer screen... why don't you let the Lord lead you (to a girl who shares your more orthodox christian beliefs)... why knowingly get involved with someone that you know has beliefs and ideas that are so far removed from your own?... you will end up constantly butting heads over basic doctrinal issues... you're young, take your time, don't become so emotionally attached or involved with someone over the internet, cultivate relationships here at home, and let the Lord lead and guide you... peace, momma jen-o :~)

hey twinky! thanks for the heads up on freecycle! i'm involved with the homeless ministry at my church... and this is going to come in real handy! in fact, we just got a family set up in a 2 bedroom apartment, and they are basically in need of everything to furnish it... so i really appreciate this information... thanks again! peace, jen-o

wow... when this thread is hot, it's hot!... LOL i haven't read all the posts on this thread, but i just wanted to comment on this one line: LOLOL, oak, it wouldn't be the first time! :lol: peace, jen-o

so in the end, it appears we are all human and struggle with forgiveness...

dear waysider and excie, as i was writing my post, i actually thought about PTSD, and thought about putting a qualifier in there for severe and extreme cases of abuse... but those situations are so much more complicated than a message board can handle... and i didn't really know where to draw the line... i mean, forgiveness is a process, not a simple statement... though it may start with the statement or end with the statement... i, myself, have gone thru things that could be condidered PTSD (okay, WERE considered PTSD by a professional)... and i no longer suffer from any of those effects... and yes, i have forgiven "the offenders", and yes, it was a process... and no, i never think about the "offenders" or the "situations" anymore... but i'm not sure how much more than that i really want to say on a message board on the internet... for some things, forgiveness is pretty easy - like someone cut you off in traffic, or someone called you a name, someone was rude to you, someone acted "nasty" to you on a message board, etc., (well, i think those things are pretty easy to forgive anyway) and other things are harder to forgive... (depending on the level of emotional trauma) stuff like: your spouse cheating on you, or your spouse leaving you, issues of child abandonment or parental neglect, etc. etc. [these kinds of things may be harder to work thru, but IMO can be forgiven and put into the past to the degree that "one basically doesn't even think about them anymore"... and on the rare occasion that these kinds of memories are brought to mind (like now), there is no emotional attachment to them... [and believe me, that's freedom] how do i know?... having experienced all of the above (and more), i've seen it happen in my own life... and in the lives of others... and then, there are cases of extreme abuse, which things i could not even begin to scratch the surface of on a message board... (although i still believe those things can be completely healed) so i did not mean to make it sound like i was giving a "pat answer" about forgiveness... and i certainly did not mean to make light of extreme trauma and abuse... forgiveness is really more than mental assent (as you have pointed out waysider)... it is more than a "thought process", although it may begin there... and it's certainly not about ignoring what happened or telling yourself "not to think about it" or filling the hurt/pain/trauma with alcohol, drugs, food, work, etc. so that you never think about it... that would be called "stuffing it"... forgiveness is not about ignoring pain and trauma, it is about releasing it... i really feel like i'm rambling here... and i'm not sure i've even clarified my position... the reason i'm having such a difficult time expressing myself is because there are different levels of pain/trauma from a minor insult to extreme, prolonged abuse... (and there is no one size fits all regarding "forgiveness") peace, jen-o

hi rachel, i do agree with oak that paganism is an umbrella term... in the sense that it does not differentiate among the multitude of "pagan" religions and give any specifics about each one's practices and beliefs... personally, i am following webster's definition, which defines paganism as the worship of idols or false gods... so i would agree that the term does not apply to someone who holds christian or jewish beliefs (not heritage) however, muslims worship a false god, allah (who is the moon god) and paganism (and it's practices) are infiltrating christianity today as well... (wide is the way to destruction) anyway... since acts 6:1 makes a distinction between the "hellenists" and the "hebrews", i believe that a distinction is being made between those who follow after the grecian/hellenistic gods, and those who follow the hebrew God... i know bride disagrees with me on this... but that is my thinking and train of thought on the "hellenists"... peace, jen-o

God Bless You Agape! you seem to be doing really well for having just recently left twi... i understand what you are saying, and agree that forgiveness does help a person let go and move on... not only with twi... but with other people and things that happen in life... there really is freedom in forgiveness... and the best thing that happens - is that you never really think about the offending party anymore! :) peace, jen-o

dear twinky, i am aware of the topic of the thread... but if you go back and read my first post, it was not actually off topic... the point i was trying to make was that reading "the message" paraphrase was a factor in leading you to make some inaccurate conclusions about the section of acts that you were referencing... you said that the verse seemed a little "off" to you... and i was giving my opinion as to why it seemed "off"... in your very first paragraph, you state: and i posted: that is why i wanted to comment on "the message" paraphrase that you were quoting from... i was not trying to hijack your thread and start talking about the value of the various versions of the bible that exist... are you saying that i should not have given my opinion that "the message" bible was leading you to some faulty conclusions about the verses in acts that you thought were "off"? peace, jen-o

mike, don't you think you should explain to everyone why we aren't going to be having the conversation about whether or not pfal "materials" are God-breathed? i only say this because it looks like everything has been left up in the air... and my last post sits there like a dangling participle... LOL shouldn't we at least say something about it? peace, jen-o

hey rachel! i'm gonna need a refresher myself... LOL i'm on my webtv, which is hard to navigate at the greasespot... so i'm gonna go up to my computer and read thru the posts again... see you soon... (as long as no one accuses me of "attacking" twinky... which thing i have never done, and will never do) just FYI for all the readers out there... :~) shalom, jen-o

and speaking of 1 Cor. 3, "let no man glory in men" (v.21) the context of which suggests that "those who glory in men" are vain, thinking themselves wise, but deceiving themselves... mike, i just don't think that there is any way around it... because everytime you point to a man (vpw) and his writings, this is gonna come up... i.e. that i think you are being idolatrous...

thanks waysider, that is the way i read it, too... i mean, the whole thesis depends upon whether or not the pfal "materials" are God-breathed in order to determine whether mike is idolatrous or not... that was the big "IF" question! so mike, i don't know how we can possibly have a conversation about "this" if your mind is closed tight as a bank vault... you say this is just one issue, but this is the only issue we were talking about... i.e. the issue of "IF pfal materials are God-breathed or not" what other issues are there to discuss?? mike, if you don't want to discuss this, just say so... peace, jen-o

well, how are we going to have a conversation then?? or are you telling me that you really don't want to have a conversation with me? peace, jen-o

mike, i think that your motivation to help people is a good thing... i also am motivated to help people... i am glad that you agree with me that IF the written part of pfal is not God-breathed, then your thesis is idolatry... i'm assuming your thesis has something to do with studying and following the written pfal "materials"... but would you please succintly state your thesis for me so that i will know exactly what it is (i do not want to make assumptions about it, and i have not been on this message board for 4 years so i really have not read too many of your posts) and i would agree with you that IF (and i wish i could make that "if" 3 feet tall)... but IF written pfal is God-breathed, then you would not be idolatrous in following it... so the big question is: IF and i would also like to ask you: do you agree that IF there are errors in written pfal, then it cannot be God-breathed (since God does not make errors) soooo... before we start i need you to clarify a couple of things... 1.) please succintly state your thesis for me and 2.) please state what the written pfal "materials" include (that you believe are "God-breathed") thank you, jen-o

mike, i am not trying to attack you... and i am glad that you re not going to be sarcastic with me anymore... i definitely like straight talk! :~) shalom, jen-o p.s. i will have to post more later because i am on webtv right now...

hey eyesopen, i'm not trying to rain on your parade... and i have no idea what's in your book... and whether you have come to the conclusion that homosexuality IS a sin OR whether you have decided that homosexuality is NOT a sin... personally, i just don't think the bible is all that hard to understand (especially on this subject)... it's really not a matter of me already having "made up my mind"... i don't try to read into the bible, and pick and choose things to agree with me... i let the bible speak for itself... and i just really don't find it all that difficult... i really do not want to buy and read a book in order to engage someone in discussion on a message board... so i guess i will never know what you believe about this subject... LOL but, hey, that's okay too... :) God Bless, jen-o [edited to add smiley face... cuz you can never have too many smiley faces] :)

hey cman, thanks for your short, clear explanation... i agree with you that it's not a big deal if someone makes a grammatical error... (see my previous post on this - post #1060) however, what i find baffling is that some of the folks on this thread refuse to acknowledge that it IS a grammatical error... the idolatry is sooo thick that a couple of folks refuse to acknowledge that the "man" (vpw) that they worship could make any errors (including grammatical errors or misusing the english language) i am grieved by this blatant idolatry and worship of a man... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ hey what the hey, now you are presenting "material" to me?!? your choice of words is interesting, to say the least... um, i was responding to a post on a message board... not trying to "look too far ahead"... you wrote a simple story about your cheating in the 9th grade (there's no great understanding i need to gain about that) me thinks you are a bit full of yourself thinking that i have to gain some "proper understanding" of the "material being presented" in your 9th grade cheating story... btw, your edit doesn't change a thing... the rest of the students still said "-1" and if you list the names of all the students (without distinction) who said "-1" AND list the names of all the students (without exception) who said "-1", you will find that the lists contains the exact same names... but your idolatry will not allow you to think logically! "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie" (2 Thess. 2:11) this verse applies to anyone who idolizes vpw!

hey mike, seems to me, it might be a little more important to remember what God said in the book of Job... rather than what vpw said on pg. 127 of some collateral.... hmmmm... if ya really want to know what was said... check out Job 19:23 and Job 31:35...

you mean you were the only one to get the right answer, and the rest of the students said "-1"... you mean all the rest of the students without exception said "-1" there was no distinction among the rest of the students - they all said "-1" there was no exception to this, and there was no distinction made among the students who gave the wrong answer... that is because all without distinction=all without exception.... it's the same set of students... why don't you name all the students in the group "all without distinction" who gave the answer "-1" then name all the students in the group "all without exception" who gave the answer "-1" and tell me if you don't come up with the same list of names...

mike, you are kinda sarcastic toward me... and i have not been sarcastic toward you... and part of the reason you are sarcastic towards me is because you insinuate that i don't understand what you mean... and then you proceed to define your words... as in: when i said earth, i meant... when i said walked, i meant... [why didn't you just say what you meant to begin with??] this is a problem - because i told you before that if you don't use words the way the rest of the english-speaking population does, then you are going to have a problem communicating with folks... and if people don't understand you, you don't need to get sarcastic with them... you also wrote: are you telling me that you deliberately "bait" people??how can you think that is an honest or godly thing to do? do you think that Jesus is some sort of game?? you wrote: what are you talking about? telling someone to turn to the book of luke is NOT the same thing as elevating a man to god-like status... i don't know how you can compare the two things... you also wrote: you worship those collaterals, don't you? and it seems to me that you worship vpw (and vpw's writings) more than you worship God and the Lord Jesus Christ... perhaps you would like to rewrite 2 Cor. 5:19 to say that: "God was in vpw, reconcilling the world to Himself" you know, the mormons have added another book and claim it is part of God's "revelation to mankind" (which they hold as equal to the bible, having been written by their prophet, joseph smith, who they claim received this "new revelation" from God) and you seem to be doing the very same thing... you have added the collaterals (a set of books) and seem to be claiming that they are part of God's "revelation to mankind" (you seem to be holding these "collaterals" as equal to the bible, having been written by your prophet, vpw, who you claim received his information from God) this is all idolatry! perhaps you don't know what idolatry is...

so this is a thread about a book, but no one is allowed to comment on the content of the title... and you don't want any discussion about the content, but simply want to promote the book... well, okay, i guess... except i wouldn't exactly go to secular sources to find out whether "homosexuality" is a sin or not... and i'm not sure why it took close to 3 years to research this question... i don't think i need to read a book to find the answer to this question... i think the bible already has answered it very clearly... p.s. lest someone accuse me of being a "homophobe" or hating homosexuals, let me just state (for the record) that i neither fear them nor hate them...

mike, you said "the earth shook when he (vpw) walked"... obviously, this didn't happen literally... so you are using it as a figure of speech to emphasize your opinion about the man vpw... this is idolatry to speak about a man this way... the earth trembles when God speaks, NOT a man... i think that your description of vpw borders on idolatry... if you were elevating the revealed Word of God, you would NOT need to mention ANY man... you would give God the glory, and NOT a man...

mike, why do you elevate another human being (a mere mortal man) in this way? it borders on idolatry...

hi krista! thanks for the welcome! :~) actually i was around back in the waydale days... and then i kinda got busy, havin a life and all... LOL... so i haven't been round these parts in about 4 years,,, not even sure what i'm doing here now... LOLOL... anyway, just want to clarify that i don't hate anyone... vpw, lcm, cff, etc. etc. and i never had a "bad" experience with cff... although i did have an experience with them... and i definitely want to emphasize this last point: i do not want to sit behind my computer monitor and tell other people what to do... Lord knows, i have enough stuff on my own plate, and i definitely do NOT have all the answers... there is only one person with all the answers (imo) and that is Jesus... peace, jen-o :~)