mchud11

Watered Garden said: Waysider probably remembers the time in Fellow Laborers when we were all jerked out of bed in the middle of the night and told to report to limb in the middle of the night. This was a twenty minute drive. Got there, were screamed at by the limb leader, J** M**ne, and dismissed en masse. Nowhere to go, no idea why. Weighed in the balance of an unknown judge and found wanting in unknown ways for unknown reasons. We were later reinstated, except for a few hapless souls. Waysider said: Later, I realized the purpose of this little exercise was to keep us off balance and fearful, dependent and confused. It happened in the mid 1970's, in the middle of the night. Our program was in the the middle of rural Ohio. Just packing up and leaving on a moment's notice would have been very difficult for most. We were told the program had been cancelled because our "believing" was corrupted and inadequate. No specifics were given. A few hours later we were told we would be allowed to continue, contingent on our following orders without question. I later found out that the same stunt was being played out, at the same time, in the Way Corps. It was all staged to push people into pledging loyalty. For some people it was quite a traumatic experience. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is the case that the Fl's were called to Limb HQ's very late in the evenning. It is the case that everyone was shocked, including myself. This post of mine is the most complete record of that evenning. J. Mil@@ dismissed the FL program for two reasons: alcohol consumption and too much sex. If memory serves me, the dismissal was shortly after everyone in the program returned from "Christmas"...the FL program had a Christmas break. Regardless if my recollection of the time of the dismissal, I am very sure I know what J. Mil@@ was talking about. There was alcohol consumption, against the rules of the program...Secondly, that year of the program there were many first year FL's who were married, many children. Within a half an hour of the dismissal, I convinced my fiance, Barbara S@@ St@@a@t, to drive me back to Limb HQs. With her in hand, I knocked on J. Mil@@'s door and was invited in, was invited to sit down in his office. I then told J. Mil@@ that I had inappropriately touched Ms. St@@a@t. I was diagnosed in 1999 as a Bi Polar, as having a mental illness. The Dr. said it started to develop when I was 13 years of age or so, just not diagnosed for 33 years. What I am saying is that I was mentally ill throughout my TWI experience. To this day, I cannot explain why I told J. Mil@@ that I had inappropriately touched my fiance, I hadn't...being mentally ill, what else could be the reason. Anyway, immediately after I stated the touching, J. Mil@@ called the FL mens coordinator, asking the coordinator if he wanted to re-start the program the next night. My fiance and I saw the call being made, we both heard the contents of the call. The program did restart the next evenning....nothing has been left out of the dismissal Waysider and Watered Garden have referred to...

I reported this three days ago...my post did not get posted...

Our friend JL, spiritual leader of the Living Truth Fellowship has been diagnosed with a form of bone marrow disease. This is not a joke. He is receiving some "healing counseling". I know more, but I am not talking any more, other than to say that JL certainly deserves our prayer.

Thanks, I was in San Diego for a year and Nancy was there, doing the WOW program, so I really only got to talk to her for just a few minutes..I am not sure who Rhonda is, but maybe...would you drop me a note in my email box..I think I might know who Rhonda is, just not her last name...thanks, michael

From what I know about Abe Lincoln, you would have been either good friends with him or in his Civil War cabinet..He didn't like that Jesus Christ was not present in the Churches of his day... michael

Ya know socks I like this post of yours...its good reality. The thing I found toward the end of my involvement/association with the ministry, was the "raise the bar thing"..I move to San Diego/Coronado, no job, no money and the Branch Leader invites me over to his home. He says welcome and I want you to attend my fellowship..Oh, its real far away, but Hey I can believe for hitching a ride, right? Later I move to Everett, Washington. I have un-resolved issues, I ask the local Corp Grad for some counseling, well he turns me down, doesn't feel I am hungry enough, hey I haven't proved my commitment. Later I work for him, I teach him how to use a paint sprayer to paint homes..He has some serious vision issues, I mean squinting, very bad squinting to see anything and he is driving like that. He neither recognizes, nor takes care of the issue, Ordained Clergy, dumb foot. We do the first job, he is blind as a bat and shooting paint everywhere except where its supposed to go..I wouldn't say it was anything other than sad. And I messed with him, he didn't pay me up. I go to his home, tell him I will collect through small claims court..hie wife comes out, thrusts a bible in my face with a verse on "how dare you...going to man/court rather than the body of believers"...which don't exist in the area... What can I say, the Corp is/was a lifetime commitment to serve. Do I know more than two people in my life presently that are keeping their Corp commitment..no I don't... The ministry became utter horse poo. I didn't help that, not guilty. I do work the Word, I do speak in tongues. I do associate myself with John Lynn. He is a Teacher/Evangelist. His ministry is apparent. I have never met him. We correspond, for getting close to 7 years now. I did finish the Momentus book...well, not horse poo, just pretty damn light-weight. It looks to me that there are a whole lot of light-weights who publish books, John Eldredge, Joyce Meyers. Well, I have gone after old John Eldredge..confronted him on his little Facebook page...of course he doesn't respond on the page or to my email...just like all the light-weights....ears full of wax, living their 'LAW'...I have no empowerment with them...too, too bad, oh well. michael

Thanks, Ham I had to look it up. I had been thinking it was a kind of Greek sandwich wrapped lovingly in a Pita with "the juice". 2.Swarmy Swarmy is a conflation of the words "swarthy" and "smarmy". Originally intended to be an insulting term referring to an unsavoury person with a shallow personality and a less-than-appealing set of grooming and dress habits. So, Richard Dawson might fit in all this, eh? "The bad suit says?"

Stop it Waysider, my ribs are cracking from laughter...BTW, I got banned from Christian Dating For Free for putting up an open discussion on masturbation, not, mind you practices, techniques, or supplemental reading material requirements. I wrote to Pe@er J@y about it and his response was "Well, Michael, I suppose if you were on a masturbation site and discussed Christianity the same thing would probably happen". Ya, I felt compelled to share that with you. michael

So, Socks, you are 'Pro' or 'Agin'? I am hearing a Rush Limbaugh "on crack" rant. Are you like me Socks, can't wait to read Larry Flynt's new tell all on sex in America in politics over the last two hundred years or do you fall asleep with the latest Joyce Meyers work, all safe and secure on your "Kindle"? Just messin with ya Socks, no need to hack my Forex account. love, michael

I read it Steve. I will keep it in mind, but not hide it in my heart...cause I got balls. michael

thanks Ham, I am still researching. One Way leader has said "broke Drs. heart", one says "wonderful", one says "experiential model"...so I am still researching, a book "Us" is on the way. I call em like I see em. michael

As far as I know, the best way to make decisions is with a dartboard, or picking out a scrap of paper from a hat...

I am not sure where this thread is going. I personally thanked Waysider for informing us that the WOW Program was in swing again. I looked up the reference. I wrote a short letter to "Little Vic, whoever he is, like VPW's son, whatever.. I asked him to please not send anyone to Colorado Springs or Denver, promising that if I found out about it..that I would go to their residence and confront them on what I understand the Way to be still teaching, i.e. the "Tithe'. I made a mistake some years ago, I picketed the home of the Limb Leader of Arizona's home, this was like 1986. The police arrived, asked me to leave, and I refused. I spent a night in jail, ended up paying a fine of a little over three hundred dollars. Lesson learned. With regard to the re-vised WOW program, well what is good for the goose is good for the gander. it's unlikely I will discover any WOW's in colorado, however if that does happen, well it just so happens I have a door to door ministry with regard to WOW Ambassadors, explaining to them directly, however meekly, that "the LAW" kills members of the Body of Christ's spiritual walk...not a good thing, you know?? love you guys, Michael Chudzinski

Absolutely and the PFAL Class was a sales tool.

Thanks, Waysider; I wrote Mr. Wierwille a very short letter, asked him to stay out of Denver and Colorado Springs, well cause I would hate to go over to their little fellowship and confront them on the Tithe, cause at the moment that is the only issue that I know of that is worthy of my time...read "the law". I do plan on praying for the Dude, who knows maybe he has "da ka hoe na's" to write me back. michael

Steve; Ok, dude, or Mr. Dude - LOL...I read over the link, not every word..enough to get the sum and substance of it. First, thanks for speaking your mind. Waysider is a great guy, honest..and I also appreciate him putting in his thoughts. Momentus does appear to be quite a few things, but I do have my time constraints, so I will just discuss one thing. Artificial counseling. Real, genuine counseling, like the kind I am reading about now (from Henry Cloud/John Townsend's "How People Grow)...involves techniques Jesus Christ used, like the spectrum of "active listening to confrontation", but when say a trainer (I am merely picking a word that feels to me to be descriptive of the Momentus thing) gets out of someone, for example, that they feel their commitment is weak or could be improved upon..and then the Trainer confronts the trainee on commitment, Yes I would say that is dead wrong. I mean the only benefit I see to that is that the Trainee has the opportunity to react in a way that might even involve grabbing his own chair and going to town on the Trainer's head with it. After all, fair is fair. So, Momentus does sound like a no-brainer to me. Had Waysider not posted , I might not have understood in my gut what was being talked about. I did look on the web link that the sponsoring ministry of Momentus has, as well. So, bottom line, I feel better educated than when the subject first came up. I haven't ever talked to anyone about Momentus, so now it appears I have something to work with, if and when it ever comes up again. Personally, I am like you, Steve, I think we both like to take a stand on things we believe in out heart. Back to your posting..this whole emotion, thoughts, actions discussion is a very large subject matter. So, I will just feed back to you about what you have written above. I am of the belief that the Word says we have freedom of will (another big subject). And I belief that emotions CAN result from events, but self-control can minimize what our emotions bring to the table. Actions do follow our thoughts, like the big picture being "what we think about all day". We are like minded on the opposite of fear (respect) is arrogance..that is IF you are talking about a "mental event", IF you are talking about fear as purely an emotional thing, well I am not so sure...I would have to agree to disagree at the moment, as in I have never really thought about that, read anything in the Word yet that supports or negates that. The right relation to God, humbly recognizing that He is who He is and I am who I am, Oh, absolutely. Last, yes, I agree that fear, compassion, the emotions do motivate us, I would add one more thing..our 5 senses motivate us and our past experiences motivate us...Yet here is the thing..all of those are hit or miss, without knowledge of the Word, be it the written Word or revelation, applied in practice..less than good results can and do come about. This whole discussion is very interesting, real man to man stuff. I read this book, oh, some time ago about the "Sin Of Adam". The author asserts that the sin of Adam was complacency, sitting right there with Eve and not acting, not speaking...like submissive. That ain't cool in my book. Us men were formed to take control, speak truth, bring chaos into orderliness. In short, a lot of authority on this ol' green earth. bless, michael

Yes Waysider I do. It was a two hour presentation by one of Howie's old sales buddy's, I can get his name, if it would help. I wrote to Howie, oh, like two weeks about it. Back then, I remember another FLO'er saying that he heard Howie say that he never would do that again. Anyway, I wrote to Howie about it, told him everything I remembered, the bad and the good. He agreed with me on every point that I wrote to him about. He also reported that a few of our FLO'er brothers have, for the most part, said there was some benefit to it. The negative point I would point out was that Rick Watk@@@ was confronted and it startled him. The purpose of confronting someone in the audience really wasn't the point of like this exercise, the purpose of it was to influence everybody else, like "I am glad I am not that guy right now"...to like build attention, common experience in the here and now. Anyway it was wrong and Momentus may contain similar exercise, I am still looking. The exercise also was VITALLY wrong in that who would have the balls to just walk away, pack up, go home, and pack a bowl, watch some porn, and live in the basement of their mother's place...So, wrong in the first place, wrong in that we trusted Howie and didn't confront him on that score, right then and there. For me, yes,I got some bit of stuff about attention to detail, however that is about all, I have thought more about Rick turning white and pale, you know, Rick, albeit on the religious side, his behavior, didn't ask, expect, or deserve it, he really wasn't giving up a year of his life, like with no sex, a break in his career, serving the Lord Jesus Christ to have someone question why he was in the FLO program.. Yes, my rant, I did a couple of bong hits an hour ago... Bless, Michael Chudzinski Oh, Steve, give me a few days to write back to you here, I am in the middle of helping someone move.

Waysider said: "Take the WOW program, for example. "Grow ten years in one", "Gain a greater, in-depth spiritual perception.", blah, blah, blah, blah. For cryin' out loud. There was nothing spiritual about it. It was simply an unpaid sales/recruiting campaign for the PFAL class." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, I don't know if the WOW program was as you say...BUT The PFAL Class was definitely a sales tool... Could we get a basic survey on the use of Marijuana, i.e. chronic, weed, sweet smoke, da bomb, swag, reefer, Mr. Happy in a bag, and so on...like one that has sex, age group, educational level, amount of usage?? Just wondering. michael chudzinski

Steve; I do admit that that I have very little knowledge about the Momentus..what is it a movement or theology/ I will look it up and reply later. i have no knowledge of the fear the Lord part of your posting. Am I correct in saying that "fear" equals "respect"? that is the definition and usage I remember from VPW. Thanks for the reply, give me a bit to look up Momentus...michael

hey guys and girls; I scanned as many of the posts here as possible and I though I would add my two cents worth. I knew of John Lynn back in 1974. I was a WOW ambassador in Nashville, TN. So, Robin Gli@@k leaves the WOW field like the second week, one of my two "sisters". She goes back to Indiana where John Lynn was the Limb Leader. Some of you know some of the details of my walk with The Way International. It's not like I have done a book on it, I just really wasn't where some of you were or even last as long as some of you did. My only real growth, as painful as it was, was in the Fellowlaborers of Ohio program..under Howard Yere@@@n and James Mil@@. My whole thing, really while in The Way was that I loved the family, the household, but I just did not develop a real relationship or understanding of who and what Jesus Christ was/is, really anything. Where I am going with this is this, The Way International, growing as large as it did, really had some holes in it. I have read many stories about sexual abuse, believers messing up other believers marriages, a whole lot of bad, bad things. To me, the fact is that there were/are a lot of Christians around then and now, how many I do not know...what I do feel is that there were/are still these holes going on in the Body of Christ..that Body requires all the parts to stand in order to close up those holes, these gaps that allow more damage than Carter has little liver pills to occur, needs not being met, the real joy that Christianity is supposed to be, the great stuff that God really wants for us, prosperity, health, meaning... John Lynn is a teacher. That is his job. From my personal experience, Christianity is skilled labor, we each have our specialty and yes we individually can sort of bridge the gap, help people reasonably well outside of our specialty......but its a stretch. John Lynn is no different in the things he can do. John has really helped me. He has never failed to write me back when I send him a letter. I haven't always been all that loving of a dude, have thrown some real sh@@ John's way at times. And yet, he has handled it. John really loves the Lord Jesus Christ. To me, that was one of those things the Way just did not develop...and there were consequences, dramatic consequences. Personally, right now, I am having the time of my life, I am loving life, being "influenced" by John. John does not lord over my life, my decisions... Yes, John has made some real mistakes in his life, there are some mistakes clearly discussed on here, a divorce from Elizabeth, a marriage, a short marriage to another believer (don't remember her name) and a remarriage to Elizabeth....but so what, big deal...Each of us is alive and kicking, some of us have been around since the seventies, the eighties, the nineties...well folks we are here, we are there, we are in, we are out...what really stays the same, ya, the Word of God. Think about it sometime. I personally challenge anyone to write me and tell me how flipped out they have ever been in their lives (cause I can do them one better) or have not been flipped out, but waning, slowing down in their walk, dis-illusionment, boredom, whatever...geez life goes on for a while and none of us is perfect. I am learning about walking with God and the Lord Jesus Christ every day. John has only influenced me, it is still my walk. I haven't even contributed to the Living Truth Fellowship and I have been corresponding with John off and on now for six years. So, honestly John is getting rich off of the what 10 -12 - 14 fellowships right now? Sh@@, he works a job, some basic honest labor. I don't know, I am hearing just a lot of picking at nothing with regard to John Lynn. I will tell you from my experience that my association with John hasn't had the complexity of walking with the Way International...like the tithe crap, the angry, insane ramblings of LCM, VPW getting pedicures, grace includes men of God sleeping with unmarried or married women. Tell me whats on your mind...maybe I can simplify it for you. The only thing I cannot do is argue the Word of God, discuss sure, but the book says what it says, regardless of what John teaches, what I think, what you think...and that boys and girls is the crux of the whole matter..a spiritual battle. Bless, michael chudzinski

Anybody have any information on Del Duncan? Whereabouts? Current or old web sites? Last seen? anyone? Anyone?

I have thought about it and I was Mr. Ya#co#is, the bee guy..thanks for reminding me about Cindy and Pam.

Waysider is right, thats Bruce D. To Waysider's left, I can't recall his name, but he was the gentleman that kept the bees and gave the bees to me. Cindy A., was she the woman who was sent home with Larry?

I am still looking for anyone who went WOW in Nashville, TN. Or knows information. Anyone in the FLO of Ohio program... Barbara Sue Stewart Lynn Menzing Le Ella Danielson thanks, michael chudzinski