Watered Garden

When we were adopting our son, we got everything short of a colonoscopy. Psychological profiles, home visits, four references of people who had known us for a certain length of time. They checked a lot of stuff, including criminal records. Somehow these guys slipped through the cracks. The wooden spoon part really bothers me too.

MJ There you go again...(sigh) I have no idea why you are so hateful, rude and defensive. But it is so inappropriate to "say" such nasty things to people. Nobody is picking on you! Nobody is asking you to solve their problem, in fact, you'd be the last person I'd ask to do anything other than.... PLEASE LEAVE this thread. You are doing lots of harm and no good to anyone, including yourself. WG

I knew a couple once who were urged again and again to go in the family WC. Alan said, No way, no one is raising/disciplining my daughters, other than my wife and me. I didn't believe him until I saw the same thing. They would tell us we would see our children so much more. We had almost NO one-on-one time with sonny and absolutely NO say over how he was handled. He is early 20's now, not on medication, and his life is somewhat of a mess, BUT I can say they never broke his spirit! WG

Boyohboy! If the authorities had ever picked up on that one, I think TWI could have been held legally accountable for letting them just go away and not reporting it. WG

My son said later, regarding being a 5th grader at FC campus: "It was like we were the Jews and they were the Nazis. Any time you even touched a wall on your way by, someone hit you with wooden spoon." Had I know then about that, there would have been some wooden spoons up some behinds. WG

WB, We were shortly thereafter M&A. I got sonny back on Ritalin in a double blind study that his homeroom teacher said was "day and night". We moved back here to be closer to family. The BC in the area where we were M&A was a LCM wannabe, hardassed and harder hearted. He and the WC in that area had been systematically persecuting people who had been around awhile. LCM felt that those of us who had been "in" for a couple decades were not strong in the Lord enough to stand forth boldly and fearlessly in the great light of the present truth which God had revealed until his own most magnificant self. Of course the real reason was that the oldies could smell something rotten in New Knoxville and it was his brain. Our son should never have been off medication. We were told to take him off, went in FC for 3 months and got kicked out because of his misbehavior at school. We did sort of get counselling afterward from a family who had several children. These parents were always correcting their children with a wooden spoon, or literally a kick in the butt. Their children were meek, humble, and obedient all right - they were punished if they did not obey the first time! Not my cup of tea, and if I had it to do over again, I would have stayed away from FC at all costs. Any child who had any spirit at all was labeled a juvenile delinquent and not welcome in Rome City.

This is extremely mild compared to the stories above, however, I am posting it because it think illustrates the policy TWI must have had that anyone who showed any need for major outside help had to be labelled "possessed" and disposed of as quickly as possible. My son has/had ADHD. In his early teen years, we were told there is no such thing and do not put him on Ritalin again (he'd been off it while we were in Rome City), just give him some up-against-the-wall discipline. As anyone who has dealt with this disorder knows, that kind of crap doesn't work!!!! So we were then told, "Get rid of him. You wouldn't let a mad dog stay in your house. Take down to Pike Place Market, shove him out of the car, and drive away! Do not give this little *(***** a second thought. You will not be able to stand in the light of the present truth if you allow him to remain in your home."

Geo, not to derail this too awfully much, but I gotta admit, Snohomish is a lovely little town. But NK aside, there are pretty little towns here in Buckeye Land, too. Honest. And I never grew a decent tomato all the time I lived in WA. WG

"It was not TWI's job to protect your children from whom you chose to leave them with?" Oh for god's sake! Get real! TWI was recommending these people to keep the kids! If a secular day care center hires a worker who sexually abuse children, and then maybe when the worker is caught out, just sends that worker across town to work at another day care center, is that okay, too? I really think, mj, that you should consider leaving this thread, and maybe GSC altogether, until you can think more clearly, and thus express yourself more logically. People are definitely losing patience with you. WG

I just remembered that when we were foster parents it seemed that the abusive parents of these children always blamed the children. The father of a 13-year-old girl, whose mother was the queen of enablement (for him) and bought this child lingerie straight out of Frederick's, justified his actions with statements such as "I could tell she wanted me to by the way she wiggled when she walked up the stairs." "It's my responsibility as a loving father to make sure my daughter's first sexual experience is with a kind, gentle man who loves her and wants the best for her." "She led me on. She tempted me." Am I the only one who sees a pattern here. The girl was sexually abused by her father, who blamed HER? To excuse, to point the finger at the abused, is to condone, even maybe to approve. This is mental sickness. I don't want to think about it any more. I'm going to get a glass of wine, and go to bed. WG

MJ412 and Oldiesman, If you must be so rude, hateful, haughty and condescending - please LEAVE. I don't know any of these people on this thread personally, but I have seen their hearts and read their words of pain. I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about everything there is to know anything about, like y'all, but I will say this: Neither do you! MJ412, when you point the accusing finger at MY FRIEND CW, you are pointing the rest of your fingers back at yourself. You spew hatred and blame and it makes me wonder if you don't maybe just "protest too much." Oldies, when I was in TWI I believed every word about abortion on demand. I knew that I knew that I knew that I knew, for a total and a complete and flawless certainty that life begins with the first breath and ends with the last. Now that I'm free, I notice that the logic they used when quoting Scripture to back up their doctrine was kinda shaky. I personally do not believe in or promote abortion any more. What about choice? Ask that unborn child what choice he/she would make. I notice everyone promoting abortion has already been born. In my opinion it's child abuse. And get off CW's case, dammit! And answer her question, which is now mine: What is wrong with child abuse, anyway? I am nauseated and horrified that anyone would defend someone who abused a child, specifically sexual abuse of children. Even shutting up or looking the other way is inexcusable. So, answer me, please: WHAT IS WRONG WITH CHILD ABUSE??? that loud enough for ya? WG

Regarding the "Initiation" thing: It was Indian Horseradish. Burned like a son of a gun. And was all in fun. Not a serious ceremony at all. My husband was there, too, summer school 1972. He told me abuot it years ago. Never thought for a minute it was serious at all. And he's a smart guy, so please don't jump on this and impugn his integrity. I can see where it might have been scary to some folks. WG

We were never allowed to speak up. When I tried to, His Majesty the corpse guy cut me off with loud, derisive sarcasm. We were blasted because I had written the wrong date on an ABS check, according to him deliberately pre-dating it. I accepted it and started to cross out the date and put the present date on it with my initials, which would have been accepted at any bank. I got blasted again for doing that, on a check made out to TWI, like I would do to some ordinary, worldly check. How unbelievably slovenly of me. We were told we would not be permitted the privilege of attending WIB for which we had already registered and paid, because of a small debt we had incurred. I immediately asked if we would get our money back from the deposit. That, too, went over like a screen door on a submarine. How dare I ask for money back from TWI - but yes I would get it. We were not actually allowed to speak one word in our own defense. All of DM's questions were rhetorical, because he, as the MOGFODAT for that day and place and time, already had the answers, concocted in his own tiny brain, nicely warped and twisted to make him look good to his superior officers in the devil's army. We were quite stunned and I could naught but sputter; my poor husband just sat in astonishment. Our twig leaders, the only witnesses to this travesty, were silent, except for a few pseudo-sagacious nods of agreement; one of them was related to DM and they were trying to comply with the insane demands of their relative-in-law by selling their home before a deadline, so I guess they had to put any decent impulses aside. I pitied them, actually, inspite of ripping us off of a piece of nice furniture, they were not bad people. But not all that good, either. I never was requested to witness a verbal thrashing myself, but would probably have been too terrified to speak up anyway. Now, I'm happy to say I'm getting back to being my pre-LCM days smart-a$$ self! :D--> WG

"Achoo!, I'm sorry, I'm allergic to bull****!" Oh my goodness! I gotta go see this movie! I gotta find a reason to use that line, too! WG

Advanced Class 79 and the Lincoln Town Car: George, the ADV Cl 1979 was held in teh summer at Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. It was two weeks long. The Saturday in the middle was open to all and it was called "Specially Mine in '79". I think it was that day that in VPW's absence, it was made known to us all that he liked this Lincoln Town car ahe had seen at a lot somewhere in NW Ohio. I think it was a couple years old, but as Blue Sunday said it was silver. So everybody chipped in and they bought it for him. It actually outlived him, as I recall seeing it parked behind the house or barn, and it had vanity plates reading VPW. Of course a phonetic of my name is on my plate so I'll not criticize! :o--> But that is the best of my recollection. That was also the time when it was revealed to all us underlings that he didn't like garlic. what a class!!! What revelation!!! ;)--> WG

Blue Sunday, not to be too picky but the live Advanced Class in 1979 was in Athens, Ohio, not Columbus. Also, I thought the car they took up the collection for was that Lincoln Town Car...? Love yas WG

Yep, sure do, she was my roommate for a few months when she first took PFAL. I remember her speaking at a big meeting and was married and in New Orleans, but that's about it. Sorry I can't help, but the memory made me smile! WG

Hey! I'm not into revealing my identity, but I remember y'all and you are wonderful people and your parents are just awesome!!!! My prayers for your brothers to stay safe, and the rest of you to be happy! WG

Went to Doctor and got a steroid cream prescription for skin reaction. It got almost gone and then I was out in the sun over the 4th of July weekend and now the damn thing is back. I'm going to call tomorrow and get another appt. They don't want to give me oral steroids because of the diabetes. I think stress is a factor too. WG

Thanks, Danny. That's why I seldom "reproved" anyone unless they were flagrantly hurting themselves or others, and then only with a Bible in hand. I certainly never considered myself to be perfect enough to tell anyone what to think, say or do. I do think the LCM-wannabe's were the worst and saying vicious, mean, hurtful things to people and even to children. A nasty, hateful woman crawled all over my son once because she gave him a tiny sliver of cake and he asked after he ate it if there were seconds available. He was so embarrassed. She was the most self-righteous witch I've ever met and enjoyed raking over the coals those of us who didn't measure up to her exacting standards. (that was a lot of us). It's too bad people get that way. "Evil to him who evil thinks" is what I say. WG

When I was 'in' the only way I would reprove someone was with book, chapter and verse. Otherwise, it's just my opinion and who cares about that? In the later years of my internment, I was reproved by anyone's opinion, commanded to do the most outrageous things and the principle was if a WC grad said it, it was by relevation and God's Word and Will. An awful lot of abuse was perpetrated this way. To this day, I am very, very put off by people in my church, who to my way of looking at things are no better than I am jumping on my case about something. My attitude nowadays is: "If I want your opinion, I'LL BEAT IT OUT OF YOU! :o-->

Did you every drive the "Going to the Sun Road"? Narrow, two lanes, steep cliff on one side, mountain on the other. No guard rails, just chunks of rock with a gap in between each that would easily accommodate a small car. My husband laughed at me all the way, as I edged over toward him on the seat. While I was waiting for him to take a picture, I happened to glance up in time to see an American eagle gliding into a landing on its nest above, a treat for the kiddies in its talons. Don't see that every day.

Galen, American Safari tours offers yacht cruises up some river (Napa?) and stops to visit wineries. I am just busting to do that some day. Been to northern California, never middle or southern. Our best vacation: Glacier National Park. On the goback list for sure. WG

I still believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible. However, I am incredibly suspicious of anyone who tries to tell me what to do. We go to a small group at church, or used to, and had a few incidents which have encouraged me to stay away because it was to "TWI-ish": My husband works as a restaurant manager part time, because he likes to, and when this group met on Sunday nights, he had his schedule arranged so we could go. Then the group leaders decided to meet on Saturday nights and fussed and carried on and whined because my husband couldn't come. One woman even prayed for his schedule to change! This annoyed me no end. Set off alarms, too - no one's business what he does. Then, the last time I went, one woman made this blanket statement: "It is the HEIGHT OF ARROGANCE not to read God's Word every day." My shi tometer went off on that one. Been there, done that. No fun. I don't know if I will ever get to the point where I'm not on the lookout for TWI-like stuff from well meaning people. but I don't blame God for this kind of crap. Well meaning people sometimes take things too seriously, starting with themselves, and then it gets all out of hand. WG

DMiller....."Conceal Kerry Law" hahahahahaha! :D--> :D-->