Watered Garden

Of course, your brother could always kick the two oldest kids out of the house so he'd only need 3 bedrooms, slap his mom into the cheapest nursing home he could find, and be considered righteous and godly according to the cornfield cult. I hope he wakes up and tells them to put it where the sun don't shine! This is so pathetic. Jesus, nails in hands and feet, dying on the cross, called on his most trusted friend to take care of his mom. He's doing the right thing and I sure hope he knows it. And takes her to hear Geek teach. WG

I still think this denigrates Jesus Christ. There is no humility taught. "We are the greatest people who ever lived because we KNOW THE WORD. Okay. That nicely bound book with the gold leaf trim did NOT suffer and bleed and die for me. Nikita Khrushchev, premier of the Soviet Union during the height of the cold war, memorized the four Gospels. He could quote any given verse accurately (I never actually heard him, but that's what I've been told). He did not ever accept Jesus Christ as his lord and savior. He never admitted to being a sinner, to being helpless against the wiles of the devil, to NEEDING a savior. So all that memorization (retemorization?) served him for naught. He died unsaved. Period. Do I think the Word takes the place of the risen Christ? Actually in PFAL days, for many unfortunate souls VPW took the place of both. Kinda like old Nikita memorizing the gospels, all for naught. IMO.

We go to a Grace Brethren chuch that teaches the Bible. I think like methodists they probably vary somewhat from church to church. We first attend an American Baptist church which was very similar to what you're describing. A sad experience. Loved the people, didn't like the attitudes. Anyway, good luck. Stick to what you believe. My husband actually got to be a guest speaker at this Baptist church, and one person loved his sharing (about Christmas, the wise men, and the little drummer boy!!!!) That's one guy who was excited and wasn't before. WG

Washington/Weather, thanks for your post of the previous page. WG

Sorry, Tonto, I was one of the girls in the crappy apartments on Hulen Street, with disgusting green shag carpet (the guys had disgusting orange shag carpet). Susan was the other girl. Thanks for remembering. Sorry to derail! WG

I'm so sorry. My daddy always said there were a lot more horses' a$$es in the world than there are horses. Sounds like some of them were up at your camp. Darn!!!!!

If it did try to be PFAL I don't think that would make it any more appealing. If it helps you, great. I think a lot of us are kind of like "Once burned, twice shy." WG

Did you know Susan Bouldin, who was the leader of the WOW team of 28 people in Ft. Worth in 74-75? WG

When I was diagnosed with diabetes I was in the hospital for a week. We had no health insurance, and were paying off our hospital bill in monthly increments. The HFC and BC got wind of this and raised hholy screaming he11 about it. We were forced to sell some valuable stock and pay ours off; however, when the HFC's wife had surgery, they charged it off to Medicaid. When the "revelation" to sell off our houses came down a close personal friend of the BC was allowed to keep his house. Later, after being commanded to attend the last ROA and flying to Ohio and back and having to put the airline tickets on a credit card, we were reamed because of that! We were told we were not permitted to attend Word in Business, for which we were already registered. I promptly fired back with "I want a refund!" Not a popular move, but it was interesting seeing the colors of righteous rage that little puke BC could turn. WG

Belle - is that your choir robe????

Yup, 8/74 to 8/75. We lived in a crappy apartment on Hulen Street. (I thought it was crappy at least). WG

Wow that last quote...do you suppose this guy was ever connected with our good old buddies on the farm??? I swear that reminds me of something from PFAL. WG

Interestingly enough, it didn't take off too much at our church. I think part of this was because the canned sermons were so non-genuine. They are practically recited and no one likes that. A lot of people there do respect the Bible, and some of them are just plain stubborn. It would be interesting to discuss the monograph Dovey posted the link to with the pastors, but I just am not that interested. I have no idea whether the small group I mentioned is still regurgitating this crap (discussed by the men only, of course) and I could frankly care less. Right now, I'm just hovering on the fringes, myself. WG

Oenophile, That was awesome! Thank you! WG

Well I was a WOW in Ft. Worth in 1974. Guess that doesn't really help much, does it? WG

I think most people were too intimidated by his tyranny to think straight. I know one of our initial confrontations with our HFC's we were told our marriage sucked, we did not communicate, and we needed to "get rid of" our son. My husband went storming out and the HFC continued to deride my husband, a man who had mentored his own wonderful self, as "weak and of no character." We were putting our son ahead of God and His Wonderful Ministry!!! I was terrified. Caught between a rock and a hard place. Shocked and horrified. I did, however, leave, and pick up my husband on the way home. A couple months later, the BC congratulated me on learning better communication skills in our marriage and how much more wonderful things now were! We hadn't changed a damn thing nor had we lied and said we did! To this day, I don't know what he was talking about. But see where this doctrine of confrontation and abandonment can lead? These same HFC's a year later had a hefty medical bill to pay. We overheard the wife telling someone how they had written it off to Medicaid. Then we got confronted about the same thing by the BC's who used them as an example of someone who paid the medical bills and cleared their just debt! People lie to make themselves acceptable. This should NEVER be forced to happen. And my question now to them and to the small group and anyone else is this: If I stand approved before God, what makes you think you have the right and the ability to improve on that? Who the he11 do you think you are? If Jesus Christ died for me and I live and breathe and move in God's grace, what do you think you have to add? Are you smarter than God? Do you love me more than He does? Of course we know the answers those TWIers would come up with, don't we? WG

I agree with the part about worship. I liked the book immensely and it helped me a lot, right up to the parts about discipline, abandonment, etc. That was straight TWI, Def, from about 1993 on. I realize you were not around to enjoy the witch hunts, the inquisitions, the friends disappearing from fellowship with no explanation, then hearing them villified and slandered in a couple weeks, then having it happen to you. I believe that we live and move in God's Grace. I do not believe grace is an excuse to sin. I believe that we need to help others, but not to force them into cookie-cutter molds of phony cordiality. Waybots if you will.

Dove, In the early to mid 1990's LCM began to systematically weed out people who had been around TWI when VPW was alive and running things. We were told we were "old wine" and would not be compatible with the "new wine" of the Present Truth. The little smarmy bastard who was our BC said he just didn't think any of you old people will be strong enough to stand on the present truth. Then the attacks on anyone who had been around much before LCM's ascendancy to the throne were individually called on the carpet. Debt was a good excuse - most of us were no longer footloose youth, but married couples with children and jobs and houses we were purchasing. Thus a mortgage loan, which Uncle Harry had said was not a debt since property usually increases in value, became the worst sort of debt. When I reminded someone of this, I was sharply informed, "Uncle Harry is dead! And this is a different administration we are living under, The Present Truth. It is different from the truth Uncle Harry knew!" Well at one time last summer, we owned 3 houses! Happily we sold 2 of them but I look back now with a "Take that, you fool!" attitude! The church I attend is indeed growing but not through the 40 days stuff. I guess. I kind of sing in the choir and mind my own business. But Saddleback sure sounds like New Knoxville West. WG

Def I guess I felt like I was put on the spot. If I was being egotistically self-centered, and not being others oriented, I was definitely wrong. However, it's kind of hard to think "What can I do to bless this person?" when that person has a figurative gun to your head. Did you leave TWI on your own? Were you strong enough to stand up to the Man/Woman of God for your city and tell him/her to go to he11? If you did, good for you! I was yelled at, screamed at, criticized beyond measure and by people I thought I could trust. The WOW Ambassador Program was about others, not self. It was about selling others on a class and getting their money for that class, other classes, abundant sharing, etc. It was about getting them to buy, literally and figuratively, a lifestyle and a pattern of thought that were often contrary to the simple teachings of Jesus. WG

Mstar, when we started going to this group, a different couple, calm and loving, was in charge. We met on Sunday evenings. They went to Florida for the winter and this second couple took over, we got a couple of newbies in, and they started clamoring for Saturday nights for their convenience. My husband had arranged his work schedule to be off on Sundays and wasn't interested in re-arranging it. The second couple who were group leaders wanted it Saturday also. The female half is very sharp tongued and outspoken. Everybody is pretty cowed by her, even though she thinks women should be silent in the church, etc, apparently she doesn't include herself. The male half of the newbie couple was the guy who hammered me to tears, then came over afterward, gave me a brotherly whack on the shoulder and said he hoped I didn't take it personally. He also interrupted every time I said anything, which is why I think he was making a definite point. We are not going to be going there much longer. There is a new church starting up closer to where we live. Hopefully it will be fun again. I like this church. They do teach out of the Bible and some of the minister are quite well versed. But some of them need to read 1 Cor 13 again. I read over briefly the link Dovie posted. HOLY SH--! Sounds like the TWIlight zone to me! WG

In 1994-95-96, There were several things that happened in TWI that fit with WD's post. Well, even before that. 1. The LOYalty letter culled out those who were blocking the MOGFODAT's agenda. 2. The mark and avoid policy was defined and implemented. 3. People who had been involved with TWI from the early days were targeted as weak believers who would not be able to stand on and live the Present Truth which was presented in the new marketing program, aka Loy's new class. And of course, regarding the Purpose Driven stuff, most people "out there" are not seeing the marketing aspect at all and think it's all godly stuff. I KNEW when I saw how a few people were reacting to the Purpose Driven book, that part of it was bad, bad news. Fortunately, our church went on to something else after a while, and taught on the Left Behind series over the summer, which I have never bothered to read. It did encourage me to stop going to that small group tho, which I greatly miss. But my husband is working on the night they decided to meet and they were carrying on that he wasn't there, to the point the woman mentioned above (no surprise) suggested he needed to get his hours changed. And I'm sure not going by myself!!! WG

Is bearing false witness the same as having a "genuine spiritual suspicion???????" WG

Our small group at church studied this book a chapter at a time through much of last year. I liked it right up to I think Ch. 24, the one of reproof and discipline in the church. First some guy hammered me for no reason, using me as an example of someone who needed to be told to shut up. Then the wife of the group leader said we should get to the point where this kind of confrontation happens all the time. I began to sweat, cry, have profuse abdominal pain and flashbacks to my pre-M&A session with the MOGFODAT of the city where we lived. To ice the cake, I led the discussion on the chapter on love, just a week or two before. I worked hard on that, and gave it my best shot. Everybody loved it, and I was thanked for doing such a "good job." So this next week, this leader's wife announces that from now on ONLY THE MEN should lead discussions!!!! Now of course my reaction and experience was at least in part due to my feelings about my previous experiences. But I disagree with the whole concept, because there are always little TWI-wannabes like this woman, who want to run peoples' lives. I wonder if she would respond with the meekness she wants from others if I shared James on the tongue is evil with her? (She's got a very sharp tongue and will say nasty things to people in a very loving way. Sound familiar?) The wonderful thing is I finally understand that evil is not exclusive to TWI - there are people who thrive on that kind of put-you-down, build-me-up mentality in every denomination. I hope this makes some sense. It is pretty specific to the specific situation I found myself in. And, as a whole, the book was just great. But it's just a book. It can't contain God and shouldn't be worshipped as if it does. IMO. WG

Nope. It's Loy.

And you're in super duper dog poo if you don't show up!