Watered Garden

The drawer in my dresser that houses a pile of my aunt's scarves still smells of her perfume. She died in 2000. I still remember her gentle presence every time I open the drawer. WG

Thanks. WG

Abigail, draw in your claws. My son WAS on medication from grades 1 through 8, until he flatly refused to take it in high school, because he did not want to his friends to laugh at him. I asked him if he would rather flunk high school or be popular. He said he didn't care about his grades, but didn't want to be laughed at by his friends. Perhaps I come across a bit harsh. Please be aware that I love my son deeply, and grieve over his present lifestyle. But as YOU said, the decisions were ALL HIS. He made the decision not to take the medication, not to attempt to do well in school, to steal (and get caught), to marry right out of high school, to abandon his wife and child, walk off numerous jobs, and to live with a girl while he is married to a very nice young lady who is the sole support of their child (except for us and her parents). If my son came to me and said "I need to be on medication," I would be overjoyed. I would pay for the doctor's appointments, the medications, and everything else. He is NOT messed up because he is or was a poor helpless child whose evil adoptive parents denied him the medication, psychological assistance or anything else he needed. Not at all. We did all that, the difference between him on and off medications was night and day. He has made some decisions that have done him great damage, and he is suffering the consequences. I am no longer interested in being his enabler, or his victim. But that doesn't mean I don't love him, and would not help him if he wanted to help himself. Until he gets honest and admits he needs help, there's not much I can do. Now as to me being ignorant and egotistical, I have some experience myself. And thank you very much, I do blame myself for much of his problems, simply because I'm the mom and in spite of six months of therapy and being told it's not all my fault. I blamed myself to the point of standing with the barrel of a 22 rifle in my mouth at one point. I believe you were the one who said the child always makes the decision on whether to behave or not? I don't want to trouble Paw to delete this, but I think you are being very vicious and you have NO idea what has gone on with my son and me. He more than once made the decision to knock me flat. He more than once made the decision to steal from us, and from my 87 year old aunt. He countless times has lied, that was his decision too. And not because he HAD to lie to us because we were such awful parents, because he likes to lie, for no reason. If he told us the truth we could and would help him. So lay off. You are not alone in your pain. If you weren't calling me names, I would empathize with you. Okay? WG

ADD: attention deficit disorder ADHD: attention deficit hyperactivity disorder ODD: Oppositional defiant disorder My third grade teacher did go overboard a bit once in a while. I don't advocate slapping anyone in the face, it is degrading. However, I do believe that many children diagnosed with these socalled disorders are really just brats. I think that the years 1-6 are absolutely critical in childhood development. Those are the years when the brain actually grows. And sometimes kids are not in the best learning environment. Watching TV for main recreation is said by experts to (pediatric association) to be a factor in developing attention deficit. This is difficult for parents to believe becuase the child is sitting in front of the tube, open mouthed in what appears to be rapt concentration. WG

When I was a 3rd grader, a little boy named Timmy sat in front of me. Timmy was seldom in his seat, mouthed off continually, and made a point of aggravating his teacher. One day, she marched over and slapped the snot out of him. He settled right down. Scared me silly and I never dared mouth off in her class. Nowadays, she would be in prison, Timmy would be on Ritalin or something, and there would be chaos in the classroom. BTW, my son allegedly has ADHD and was on Ritalin until he hit high school and refused to take it. He has had control problems ever since. We adopted him at age 8. He had spent 7 of his first 8 years of life being bounced from foster home to foster home, never taught much discipline at all, probably as much a cause of his problems as a "chemical imbalance in his brain", which can only be proven by a brain biopsy, and is entirely diagnosed by behavior problems and response to behavior modifying drugs. If I had got that child from the day he was taken into custody, he would (1) not have been on Ritalin, (2) not have failed the first grade and (3) not be a total F-up today. Sound egotistical? Tough! Many of these problems started being diagnosed and treated after mom went to work, dad went to live with his girlfriend, and being politically correct became more important than being Godly. WG

Actually my spouse and I have self-control and mutual respect to the end that we have never had to walk away from each other to regain control. I'm with Allan. Many many of the problems these little darlin's have is because the parents are not in charge but have at least in part given over all control to their children, who need to learn self-control by example set by mom and dad. Good for you, Allan! WG

So would there be circumstances when you would strongly support your child punching the teacher? See in the circumstance you describe, the CHILD is the one who is making the decision. "No, you are not permitted to touch me. You must not correct me." I will support you if you feel you need to punch, kick, hit or bite your teacher if that person is doing something you don't like." Do you think it's okay to say, "Little Johnny, your teacher is an a$$ and you don't have to show that person any respect or do anything they say"? If they bother you, just hit them?

Whether she is trying to get away from the AP or just being a brat, she is still out of control. I think the big question these days is who gets to make the decision, the kid or the adult? Usually, unfortunately, it's the kid. "I do not want you touching me, and therefore I will "act out" (read disobey) until you submit to my will". If the AP wanted the kid to go across the room and sit down in a certain chair or whatever, the kid needed to obey. I have actually offered to come to a school where my child was "acting out," take him across the street where he was not on school property, and whup his little a$$ until he decided to obey. They never called me but since I made the offer right in front of him, it wasn't necessary. The drugs probably helped. But we would never facilitate his disobedience. If I had an issue with a teacher/principal he would never have known about it, because he was supposed to obey his teachers and the parent and the teacher having an issue that the child knows about simply encourages the child to act out. Interesting, when moms stayed home to raise the kids, and the kids would get a smack on the bum if they disobeyed (that's what they called it back then) there were fewer discipline problems in the schools and fewer drugs to hand out, fewer diagnoses of behavior disorders, and, not coincidentally, better educated kids. WG

It's unfortunate that this child got so totally out of control in the first place. My husband, who certainly is no expert, but IS a teacher and a highly qualified one at that, says that all of his students who have behavior problems are from a troubled home environment, usually without a mom and dad who are living together and have a good marriage. That said, I do realize that there are lots of special needs kids with ADD, ADHD, ODD, and other problems who need special discipline methods and medication and all sorts of special attention. Unfortunately, No Child Left Behind places many of these kids in classroom situations they can't handle. I would not be happy if my child were handcuffed by the police. And when our son was 8 and 9 years old, he did get almost that out of control on occasions, at least at home. The only thing to do was give him a dose of Ritalin and put him in a quiet dark room in bed until he could get a little control with the drug's help. I do think a five-year-old could really hurt someone, especially if s/he picked up a weapon, like a pair of scissors or a ruler or a stapler to hit with, or bit, or kicked (lots of 5 year olds know exactly where to hit or kick to do the most damage.) The teachers aren't always the bad guys. I thought the assistant principal or aide or whoever that was showed great restraint. WG

There is an enormous difference between doing what we women do out of love for our S.O's and doing it because some hairbrained kid with a math degree or even worse, some lamebrained, egotistical, fire breathing nut case with a Psych degree says so. My husband is so awesome, he works two jobs so we can get out of debt ( bad word here) so I can retire with honor in 23 months and 1 day. He helps with cooking and housework and everything he can. I do what I can to support him because he is so kind, loving and giving to me, who doesn't really deserve it most of the time. Sound like anyone you heard of? Maybe in the Bible? Maybe initials JC? Husbands are NOT to lord it over their wives like little godlets. What did Jesus Christ do for the church? That is the example. Before people can consider becoming husband and wife, look at how they are to comport themselves toward their fellow believers. Because, it's so much easier to be nice to others and then treat our family members like crap. We are all one body. WG

Allan, Bo and Renee were LC of South Carolina. Cathy and Sara Meyer are in Washington State. I trust you know of Christian Family Fellowship Ministry that Wayne and Fern Clapp are leading with Rev. Shroyer. Oddly enough, I can't really remember too many others now that you ask. Sorry. WG

You know what is weird to me in all of this? The women I heard and knew who so diligently taught the doctrine of submitting women were gals with great big cojones! Their husbands might teach how they had their women in subjection, but they were only the head of the household as long as the wife said so! I think this doctrine has done me personally more harm than any other. Oddly enough, it is not a doctrine to which my husband subscribes. I know a lot of times he wishes I'd just go do something instead of asking him to make the decision. In 1994 or so, when we lived in latte' land, apparently some middle management type decided we had a bad marriage relationship. We were sat down and bleated at about communication or something, left with puzzled looks, and a couple months later, in someone's home, with our illustrious branch leader in attendance, he said to me something like the following: "Well you certainly seem to be doing well!" Me: "Yes, we are fine, thank you so much for asking, oh great and wonderful Man of God." (not really ;)--> ) Him (in a sort of self-congratulatory way) "See? all you have to do is have better communication in your marriage and do what you are supposed to do and things just work out great!" Me, smiling like a mule eating sour briers: "You are so right! They certainly do!" I have NO idea now nor did I then, what that was all about. I suspect the HFC's had told him about this extensive counselling session they had had with us in some detail, and some of the details may well have been embroidered a bit. Weird. Real weird. WG

Sediments? Sentiments?

Just one thing about NAMBLA: Their motto is "sex before eight (age) or else it's too late." How can an adult male have consensual sex with a boy under 8 years of age? WG

One of my favorite books has always been "Travels with Charley (in Search of America)", by John Steinbeck. The first phrase is "When I was very young, and the urge was upon me to be someplace else....." Yeah and I get the urge occasionally, too, John. But then I wouldn't get to see my grandson every week, or watch my Lab chase the geese off the neighbor's pond, and weeds would grow in the perennial bed. So I sigh, and say with Dorothy, "there's no place like home." WG

Well y'all certainly have cheered me up! I could probably add some more, but when I try to think of one I draw a blank. However, I'm sure I'll do something embarrassing in the not-too-distant future, just cain't hep mahself I guess. Thanks, WG

Sachi, thank you so much! I did infact e-mail you this morning! WG

I wish...... Sigh.... WG

Was in FC 20 with us for a short time. She had a sweet little daughter. I always wondered what happened to them. They were such wonderful people. WG

Blue S I sent you a private topic. Click on GO then MY SPACE then PRIVATE MESSAGES. WG

A lot of nice people used to come there, too. The last house we owned (before our present home) was across the street from a city cop and his wife a teacher. Her first teaching job was 6th grade at NK. She was pretty convinced from the get go that TWI was a cult. WG

Oh how wonderful! My eyes are getting all wet! "A baby is God's opinion that the world should go on." Carl Sandberg Love ya WG

Rascal, some people just love to build themselves up by bringing others down. That is so sad. WG

Different SW, Buff, this one is the administrative secretary. She is not as dangerous, but almost as obnoxious. WG

Blue Sunday, if you read this, PT me. I expect we have mutual friends. I was WOW 1974-75 but I took PFAL in Indy and was a secretary at IUMC. WG