Watered Garden

Must have been local. I'm sure I would have noticed it. TWI with my wonderful Buckeyes? That absolutely sucks! How dare they! Here's hopin' Troy gets the Heisman; he sure deserves it! WG

Happy Birthday from both of us!!!!! WG

I have some insight from a parenting seminar I took that I will add to this thread later. Right now my ancient dog who I think has sundowner syndrome is barking and might wake up my sleeping grandson. It's from a seminar at church by a minister and his wife who had training by Paul Hegstrom. It is so germane to this topic. Later WG

Just wanted to add my welcome. Feel free to ask about anything here. Some folks will jump down your throat, perhaps, but we are all passionate about whatever we do or don't believe, and basically goodhearted. My husband and I have attended a Grace Brethren church since 2001. They teach the Bible straight up, and are very humble. Fairly similar to Baptists in a lot of ways. It's been my experience that you find all sorts of people in any church you attend. Just gotta lovve 'em whatever. Enjoy your coffee! wG

We lived in SC when we adopted our son, who was 8 at the time. We then lived in NC for three years, then to FWC for three months, and then on to the fiasco in WA. While in WA, we were soundly reproved by our illustrious BC for having adopted, because LCM had stated that "if you could not conceive children of your own, you should focus your energies in other directions". I never heard him say that. I also knew of a FWC grad couple who adopted a baby girl, with help from B*** Gr****. We were told that our son, who admittedly had a lot of problems, still does, was "a mad dog, and you don't keep a mad dog in your house, you get rid of it, put it down." The guy who kicked his boys told us that if any one of his four children intefered in the slightest with his relationship with God he would happily kick that kid down the driveway into the street, walk back into his house and never look back, and forget that child ever existed. Gee, you know what? My son is a still a mess, but I STILL love hiim. And, funnier thing yet, my relationship with God is just fine, in fact much better since I no longer have blithering idiots like V*** R around to give me bad, wicked, hard-hearted advice. TWI in the 90's busily drove a wedge between God and His people every chance they got. My only regret is that we didn't leave long before we actually did. I would think a lot of children raised in this TWI atmosphere would have major issues with trust. If you can't trust mommie and daddy to love you and protect you no matter what, who's left? God? Oh heck no, He doesn't love you unless TWI says He can! Jeez! WG

Bramble, I definitely remember, having received the SNS tapes for a while even back in Ohio, the tape where LCM portentously announced: "It is impossible to obey God without first obeying your leadership!" If I didn't know before he was extremely wrong, and totally insane, I sure did then. I wrote and canceled our subscription to tapes and the magazine the next day. (Couldn't bear to call the jerks). What was it Peter and the other apostles said? "We ought to obey God rather than men." Of course LCM'd been wrong before......

I don't think anyone ever said it was the official policy of TWI for parents to beat the he11 out of their children for the slightest infraction of the rules and regs that owned their lives. No one is going to teach that in a TWI class or state that on a STS tape. It would make them liable for abuse that happened as a result of their teaching. However, the statement I made about the wooden spoons at RC in 1993 is true. I got in trouble many times for not having a spoon in my purse or my pocket. And when we left, we went to a city north of Seattle to be in the fellowship of a couple we had known off and on for years, who had four children who listened attentively, remembered accurately, and obeyed without question, the first time every time, just like we were supposed to be teaching our son. We thought they could help us. They beat the .... out of the children for the slightest reason. The dad liked to have the two older boys bend over in front of him and then kick them in the buttocks sending them flying across the room. The mom, thought by many to be the living epitomization of Prov. 31:10-31, beat the crap out of a two year old who wouldn't eat freshly steamed spinach. A WOW couple from our twig in NC were told of their 4-5 year old daughter to use a spoon and if that doesn't work, use a belt, and if that doesn't work, use a 2 x 4. They used Ritalin instead and the girl was just fine. Oh, who said that? M*****l F**t, the trunk/WOW coordinator at that time. (They were in Lima, OH). Did he put it in writing? Of course not. The Washington guy suggested to us we take our son, about 12 at the time, up into the North Cascades and take turns hitting him with a 2 x 4 until he knew that if he did not LRO (listen remember obey) he would be taken back up there and just die. The Man of God for that city for that day and for that time and for that hour, deeply regretted to us that he could not order the men of God of that city to take our son out and stone him with stones that he die. So, no, it was not taught from the seat of all authority and power, the MOGFODAT, for official consumption, but it was taught that children were obey the first time every time, quickly and efficiently, no questions asked. And parents were to do WHATEVER it took to make them obey. That often included vicious corporal punishment. And my hat's off to you who faced off with these folks. We were already in trouble for getting tossed from the WC and my diabetes. But we didn't use the 2 x 4. We didn't use corporal punishment all that much. Of course, he was bigger than I was at age 12, so he just knocked me on my anatomy and went his merry way. WG

I knew a woman once who bragged that she swatted her son for 3 hours because she took him to someone's house and he refused to say "Good morning, Mrs. _____." when commanded to do so. I kept wondering what the hostess thought of all this. Don't think I could handle someone in my foyer beating their kid for three hours. or three minutes. or..... The child was about 2-3. By the time I met them her kids were just like her, legalistic little smart butts who REPROVED me for the way I folded my bath towels and the way I put fitted sheets on my bed. Only one way to do it you know, and that was mommy's way. I just stared open mouthed at them. Of course it was proper and logicalk for them to do so, becuase they were HER kids and of COURSE they were right. The older two are out of high school now. I wonder whatever became of them? Their parents were WC grads and not much interested in higher education, which is unfortunate, because at least the firstborn was pretty smart, at least until he was properly brainwashed. It's sad. Some people just should be spayed and never allowed around kids. WG

I agree, even though I'm not much of a golf fan. And he's a nice guy, too.

The kids with the rifles were about 6-8th grade, which would make them 13-14 years old. They were J**n N***Z's sons, probably junior high or so at most. No the itty-bitties were not taught firearm management. My objection was that the two lads were strolling through a playground with the little ones in it and accidents do happen even to the sons of the elite. I felt they should have chosen another route. However, being the privileged sons of the privileged, they put me in my place. I dared not complain to their daddy. WG

The part about carrying a wooden spoon is true. We were in FWC in 1993 for three hellish months, until the Sunday after Thanksgiving when we were deemed unworthy of the privilege. Each adult was to carry a wooden spoon and wallop any kid who got an inch out of line, EXCEPT EXCEPT EXCEPT the children of staff. They could do anything they pleased. My son saw the daughter of the FWC director bouncing on a trampoline with no one else in sight and ran and got me, because it was against the rules and she might get hurt. This young lady quite haughtily informed us that her father was W**** C**** and she could anything she wanted to. "Yes, Ma'am, Ms. C***, Ma'am, sorry to have bothered you, ma'am." Another time, two staff kids marched through a playground full of 1-2 year olds carrying rifles, for pete's sake, and when I asked them not to, they prompted reproved me! Scared the crap out of me. Some of those things can accidentally fire with little provocation. And darned if I didn't forget my spoon most of the time. I didn't really want my son beaten by any and all, but of course when you apply they don't tell you, "Oh by the way, every adult on campus will be gunning for your brat, to beat him at every opportunity. " Had they been that honest, I would have tried a lot harder to get out of going. WG

Once while on a hiking trail, one of the easy ones, in Great Smokey Mts. National park, we came back to the parking area to find a rather large redneck-y and none-too-sober sort of guy in a tussle with a 1-2 year old black bear. He had decided to kick the bear to death for some stupid reason, probably too much alcohol. The bear had calmly, well, not too calmly, put its canine teeth clean through Bubba's $200 leather hiking boots. All of us, however, were rooting for the bear, which eventually broke off the engagement and took off through the woods. My only regret was that mama bear was evidently not around. Nor was there a park ranger in sight. Oh for a cell phone back then! I generally don't mess with wildlife. Food and self-defense are the only logical reason. I did hear once though that there is a way to easily tell the difference between a large black bear and a grizzly. You annoy the bear in question. It will chase you and you quickly climb up a predetermined tree. If the bear climbs up right after you, it's a black bear. If it simply shakes the tree until you fall out, it's a grizzly. Anybody wanna give it a try?

I think perhaps some of you have misunderstood me. I don't hate deer. My next door neighbor has a feeding stand and I enjoy watching them. I think it is unfortunate that there are so many of them. My only real fear is that someone I love will hit one of them with a vehicle and get injured or killed. Today at 11:55 AM I was driving 55 mph down a fairly busy two-lane state highway, and a 6-8 point buck and two does ran to within 20 feet of the road. My grandson was in the back on the side of the car they would have run into. I just almost stopped in the highway, and they kind of changed their minds and loped away. However, I do not agree that that deer's life is equally sacred to a human's and as important as a humans. God said He made man in His own image. not deer. WG

On behalf of me, I would like to thank all you Michigan folks for a very fine game in the best tradition of Ohio State-Michigan football. Bo must be smiling that huge grin of his up there. The game was dedicated to him. As far as I am concerned that was the National Championship Game. Thanks again. WG

Well, lessee...... I ran a twig for a while in Indy whilst awaiting the ROA to go out WOW. We didn't smoke pot or drink or anything, but I was kinda breezy regarding formalities, and anyone could come who wanted to, especially and get prayed for. I always asked people what I could do for them. Prayed for stuff and meant it. I learned a lot and I think the people there enjoyed themselves. Then on the WOW year.....very different, lived with WC, stick up her anatomy most of the time. The first year we were married, my husband was a TC and I think we did a very good, nonlegalistic job, in spite of the 7th WC BL knowitall. One time we had a brand new grad who had formerly dabbled in witchcraft and was still friends with her coven. WC BL told her to M&A same. She refused; how could she bring her friends to a knowledge of Christ if she never saw them or spoke to them? Where was the love and logic in that? Not one to fold when faced with logic, the WC BL told her to get lost; no longer was she permitted to fellowship with his righteous self or any other believer, nor were any of us to acknowledge her existence. After a week or so of this, we had had it, and invited her and her boyfriend over for coffee, dessert, and talk. I don't remember much of what was said. We listened a lot, explained to her a nicer version of Billy Boy's concerns, and quietly let her and boyfriend come to our twig. Nothing much was said about it, but we didnt' really care one way or the other. That guy was such a jerk! In a contest with legalism, love always wins. Or so I've found. WG

The big 4, CBS (or see BS), NBC, ABC and CNN are, in my opinion, in almost total control of America's thoughts. To a person, they seem to hate this country. They certainly dislike the military intensely. And hate, loathe, and despise the president (Please let's don't go there on this thread and derail it). So news is selectively reported to make America sound like a nation of ignorant bullies, the administration look bad, and glorify the enemies. Here's a non war example: In the 1990's when the Dow topped 10,000 for the first time, it was trumpeted to the world that this was a result of our most exceedingly wonderful president's handling of the economy! Why the economy was booming, Bill Clinton was a genius. As a coworker of mine said, "The economy is great! I own a little stock, and it's doing very well. As long as I'm prospering, as far as I'm concerned, Bill Clinton can get a B*** J** from every intern in Washington, D.C.!" The Dow recently topped 12,000. Who got the credit for the economy booming? Nobody in the White House, that's for sure. And we continually hear reports of how lousy the economy is. This film, I notice, is from Glen Beck, who is a decent guy. It's just sad. WG

Two members of my husband's family have been on antidepressants, Remeron and Prozac, for years. It doesn't seem to have made their lives easier. One member while on one or the other of these drugs, (she's been on one or the other for years now) physically assaulted me. The other, on Prozac, has gone from sweet and easy-going to a mean little B..... from h3ll. Do I think the antidepressants had anything to do with it? Yep. The first person tried to throw me through a plateglass door and would have succeeded had I not screamed for my husband to intervene. She's not like that as a normal person. I suspect that the bad results tend to be mediated by individual response to these medications, i.e., body chemistry maybe, or diet, or other medications they are taking interacting with the antidepressant? WG

Last year, a guy in a full size pickup hit a deer on a country road not far from wher we live. He apparently braked hard, the deer flew right through the windshield and out the back window, landing in the bed of the truck, dead. The human? Oh, he was killed, too. So sad that the beautiful deer had to die. There are several human deaths each year in Ohio from deer vs. automotive vehicle. Perhaps what we need to do here is teach the deer to drive, take cars, trucks, etc away from humans, and let them have their just revenge. However, we are nice enough here in Buckeye Land to plant orchards, corn, soybeans, etc. to feed the little darlings. They are nice enough to let us sell some of it to make money to plant more. WG

I have been to the museum where the ship's bell is displayed. They played the song. It was interesting. I think people reaslized this really happened. They were really men who went down with the ship. A haunting tale. I think National Geographic did a story with a dive on it. I remember one young woman gave one of the divers a can of Budwiser and asked him to put it in the boat, for her dad was down there and always loved a can of beer when he came home from a voyage. WG

"edited posthumously"? That's pretty impossible.

Here where I work, the sentiment is that the deer were here first and we are the interlopers. Some ladies even feel it would have been fine if my husband had been mangled and dead on the highway, but what a pity that that beautiful, innocent deer had to suffer and die. Allow me to disagree. I would gladly hire a pack of wolves from Alaska, pay for their airline tickets round trip, if they would cull the herds. What puzzles me is that the two that have taken out our vehicles completely have been huge, multi-pointed bucks in a mindless hurry to cross the road. I will certainly find some deer alert whistles and install them on our vehicles so these beautiful, innocent creatures won't be harmed by mean, hateful, nasty, worthless humans, namely my husband and me, who drive through their rightful homeland on the way to work and back, so we can pay our taxes and keep the tree huggers supplied with food to spread out for them in winter like my next door neighbor does. WG

One of the deer-huggers here at work told me about the deer alert whistles. I will definitely buy some and put them on our vehicles. We are going to look at a car or two tonight. We just want something reliable and safe and cheap for a couple years, while we save up for a newer car. My husband said the entire motor components on the driver's side of the car, where Bambi impacted, is about 4 inches lower than the rest of the stuff under the hood. How can animal that can hear a hunter breathing for 500 yards not hear a vehicle going 60 mph? Must be that Y chromosome, I guess he had something else on his mind! Watered Garden, puttin' the BAM! in Bambi since 2003

Bumper sticker for hunters: I SHOT BAMBI'S MOTHER....AND SHE WAS DELICIOUS!

Well, another Honda, this time a CR-V has gone the way of all vehicles. My husband hit a huge buck on the way home from work in a rather populated area near a Cracker Barrel restaurant. The deer did sufficient damage that the vehicle has been totalled. This is the 4th deer we've hit in 3 years, two vehicles were totalled, the other being a Dodge Dakota. What a pain in the anatomy, expense, etc. The insurance adjustor said he had had 8 car-vs-deer claims in 5 days, and 5 of those were totalled. (The cars, that is, no word on the deer). Mostly what I hear around work is "Oh that poor dear lovely creature! He was the one who had the right to be there, not YOU!" My only satisfaction is that the SOB stumbled off into the trees and brush and died. Anyone else with deer encounters?

I posted a bit on the thread about tPDL several times and after a couple of years to reflect, I find that there are things I liked about it. Much of it was Christianity 101. BUT: When we studied this book in a small group in our former church, one woman, the wife of the leader of the small group, got VERY EXCITED INDEED about the possibility of reproving each other daily, offering up reproofS and correctionS to everyone else. This woman already bugged me greatly as being very legalistic, always criticizing what other women wore to church, i.e. skirts should be long and pants should be loose and blouses must have long sleeves and high necks and so on. She drove me nuts to begin with but the thought of her running around reproving and correcting all the time put a quick end to my attendance at the small group. My cult-o-meter was clanging a great deal by the time we got past the chapter on love. Any group that elevates one man (or one book) above God is a cult. IMO. These days, I'm much more interested in what Jesus has to say than what any guy who wrote a book has to say. I did read somewhere that Mr. Warren donates all the profits from his book to his church. WG