Watered Garden

That's a very dangerous statement. Scary even. WG

Another success story.... My beloved aunt was lonely living alone and wondered if she could have a dog. I left Sophie with her and Sophie just sat by the door and whined until I returned. So when my son found a cat and we took it to the shelter, I ended up with a 2 year old neutered Llasa Apso named Sport,and he lived with my aunt for a while. My aunt died two months after I got Sport. She was his third placement. He was a nervous little thing who chewed on anything that didn't bite back. I brought him home with me and for a while we had three dogs vying for food and attention. Sport at 12 lb, invariably won, staring down a Labrador retrievr who loves her chow. Fast forward - my sister-in-law begged for him. It was a match made in heaven. She thinks he's the perfect dog and he thinks she's just perfect, period. Yeah, I heard about Ellen and her problems. I knew my sister-in-law very very well or I wouldn't have let her have him. And I think our Humane Society eventually found out but didn't seem to mind. Oh, yeah, and he doesn't chew any more, hasn't for a long time. A shelter dog, best she ever had. Neutered when we got him. WG

Working for the county, you must be getting the Arizona retirement program instead of social security. Unfortunately I worked for the State of Ohio only 9 years, and bought back service credits for 5 years, before retiring. I also get social security, but it is a paltry sum. My suggestion would be to try to do both for a good long while, that is, work and invest and have a dandy vacation once or twice a year. I retired too soon, and get social security. If you retire before 65 and get social security, you can only earn $10,960/year until you turn 65. I am working part time demonstrating food for Costco and I enjoy it, but it pays a little over half what I was earning full time. I also get OPERS retirement benefits, which are probably similar to those of Arizona. Before you retire, you need to be fully informed on exactly what your benefits will be, and that includes the insurance benefits. Go over each plan offered in minute detail. If you need to, get some help from their people before you decide. Don't let anyone rush you into a plan, or persuade you to sign up for just because your family physician is listed. If you have an investment counselor, that would be a place to start, once you are fully informed. WG

Don'tWorryBeHappy, Thanks for the clarification. I hadn't had much contact with FGW while I was in Fellowlaborers. I think he came and spoke on a FLO Night once, but it may have been first year. Waysider may remember. In the fall of 1977 I had just gotten married and set up housekeeping in Athens, OH so I had no idea what was going on. I was shocked that Uncle Harry had died at all. I didn't even know he was sick. If I were a Wierwille, I would be interested in some genetic testing to see if there was a familial inclination to cancer. Although come to think of it, at least VPW and DEW smoked, which can be an encouragement to the human body to produce more than one kind of cancer, i.e., lung, throat, sinus, and even sometimes ovarian cancer are more common in smokers than non-smokers. The pollutants in cigarette smoke permeate the human body. Melanoma is caused by overexposure to ultraviolet rays and can metastasize internally all over the body. Many cancers are not definitely linked to anything, and appear to be genetically influenced if not outright hereditary. I had always understood from the "teachings" of VPW that he taught that cancer was caused by devil spirits. Thanks for the documentation, Waysider. I worked in a cancer hospital for nine years. I learned a lot. Cancer is not one disease, it's over six hundred. Some are easy to cure; some are 100% terminal, i.e. a very rare form of leukemia that only affects infants and toddlers. It's basically an uncontrolled growth of cells, sometimes due to an irritant such as tobacco smoke or bad, nonfiber diet which can contribute to colon cancer. If all those patients and some of my coworkers who had had cancer or were currently battling the disease had been possessed with devil spirits, I think God would have told me to transfer out of that place, cast the boogers out (which would have caused no small stir), or do something else about it. And one more thing I noticed: When a patient died, the cancerous tumors within the patient died too. So how can we say the disease has life of itself? Huh? I mean, 'scuse me if I'm not exhibiting in-depth spiritual awareness and perception, but it was very obvious when a patient died. They were dead. They had no cardiorespiratory or neuromuscular functions. Their obituitary appeared in the local paper and their tearful relatives called in to cancel the next followup. The cancer didn't come in to keep the appointment either, because the cancer died with the rest of the patient. <_< WG

Could be, but I think I knew before that. Probably ran across it somewhere else, as my family always had religious poetry and writings hanging around. WG

Wayne Watson does a song based on this poem. Somehow or other, I've known for years that Myra Brooks Welch was the author. I DO NOT BELIEVE that God GIVES us infirmities to make us stronger (or "discipline" us for that matter). I do believe that what we do with an infirmity can bring glory to God. Obviously, this woman's faith rose above physical problems. That poem is one of my favorites. I read it at my mother's memorial service. WG

I got an 80% which surprised me - I expected an F! WG

HB from WG! Thanks for all I've learned from you! WG

We bought Sophie, our yellow lab, when she was 6 years old from a couple who had had her from a pup. Her grandfather was a national champion, Borador's Ridgeway Reflection. They stated that she was vicious and might harm their 22-month-old child. She is of show lab stock and shorter than a field lab, with heavier bones. Her ideal weight, which I am proud to say we have achieved, is about 65 lb. She weighed 110 lb. when we got her. God bless her heart. She figured out where she belonged in the household and took her position (as queen) graciously. After 9/11, Mr. Garden and I were extremely stressed, as our son was at boot camp and refused to contact us, and we had no idea what would happen to him in this national emergency. Sophie would come over to us, use her front paws to push over if we were sitting on the floor, and curl herself around us as if we were her puppies, emitting anxioux little grunts of concern. Her warm pink tongue would lap our faces, her golden eyes filled with love and a desire to make things better for us. When my son returned from the Navy, his child was beginning to walk. He used Sophie for a speed bump. She lapped his face, too. Now to make a short story long, as I often do, Sophie was NOT spayed when we got her. She was too well fed, emotionally distraught, and aching in every bone for love and attention. And these people had the unmitigated audacity to ask us to contact them if we bred her, as they would like to have one of her puppies. They couldn't take care of the greatest dog I've ever met, that heart, that trust, that devotion, but they wanted one of her puppies? I got her spayed the first year. Sophie is 14 now. She has bad arthritis in her hips and lumbar spine, at least partially from being overweight for several years before we got her. She can be crochety and demanding, needing her rear end picked up and set straight because she has neurological damage to her spine and sometimes can get her toes straightened out. But I do it without too much complaint. She would the same for me and more if she could. When I don't have Sophie any more, I will contact our local animal shelters to see if they can get me another lab. She wasn't a puppy when we got her. She was house trained, and been to puppy school. She was smart and eager to please. She didn't chew shoes or furniture. She needed love and a place in the household. She has given us back more than we could ever give her, including gratitude, which most people don't show those who help them out. If you want a dog, try a shelter or rescue before you look for a breeder. And stay away from those cursed pet stores that buy from puppy farms! We are trying to outlaw that particular brand of he11hole in Ohio. WG Spaying a female dog also cuts their chances for developing breast cancer, according to my vet.

If this is the Bill Mitchell who married Sadie Brown and went through the FWC twice, I thought they were in Columbia, SC. Sadie is the sister of a former friend of mine. WG

Aspirin can kill a headache. It thins the blood. I didn't know Uncle Harry died of cancer. I thought he had renal failure or something. WG

Not everyone bought into the name tag prestige game. I remember one ROA when Dorothy Owens got up to lead the choir in rehearsal (in the early days when the choir was comprised of volunteers from every state for just the ROA) and she didn't say a word. She was wearing about 6 name tags pinned to her blouse! She simply looked all around and smiled that little mischievous smile. She certainly made her point without saying a word! WG

For the record, Mr. Garden says that the discussion was good and that the error in the teaching of the eminent, famous, rich and stupid Dr. Wilkinson was corrected. I have great respect for our pastor, more than ever now, and I am comfortable again with my church. But I ain't goin' back to Sunday school. One guy told me they missed me this morning when I went to church; I thought, "You have NO idea!" I'm feeling better physically already. But whatever comes my way, I know God and I can handle it. WG

(((Belle))) Thanks so much. Mr. Garden did talk to the pastor, and he does not believe that God gave me diabetes or anyone else disease. They went over Scripture; they came to agreements and understandings. This pastor in my view is better than most of the people we knew in TWI-2. I can't imagine giong to our last branch leader with questions, and having him (a) listen and (b) change his thinking if he wasn't reading it as it was written. So I feel like I can continue in this church. I am not feeling well physically. Sometimes I get little tinglings in my feet, because my blood sugar has been generally high these past few weeks from my stress in dealing with this. I'm scared. But I don't think God is giving my neuropathy for my doubt. In fact, this has happened before and will most surely clear up after a few days of exercise and prudent eating patterns, and no stress from the stupid class. Went to a concert last night and talked briefly with a friend who works in medicine. She doesn't believe God makes people sick either. She was very sweet to me. I'm thankful I'm not going to the class any more. Now I need to take some aspirin for my headache which I get thinking about it. Thanks again, Doojable, Belle, Waysider, Penguin, Washington Weather, and all others who have helped me with this. I love you every one. WG

EEEEWWW!

This was featured in a brief little squib on the morning news the other day, and one of the commentators, obviously experienced with babies, suggested this might be a better idea for those with hardwood or vinyl flooring rather than carpet! WG

Waysider, Oh, yes, I do remember the music! Their little boy was about the age my grandson is now. I remember him helping me clean "yeafs" from the flower beds in the fall. I was just shocked when I asked about them, probably at ROA or some shindig at HQ, and was told quite offhandedly that he had died. Being the person I am, I demanded to know what the he11 happened and was told of the infection. It hadn't happened all that long ago (maybe six months) and the person who told me was rather off-hand about it. I've seen that before, though. A friend of Mr. Garden's from our Athens days went through the WC with a young woman whom he later married. This girl was in a horrible auto accident while in residence, and spent several months in the hospital in Marion, Ohio. They later married, though she never really recovered 100%. Fast forward a few years to some anniversary or other, and we see this fellow and ask after his wife. "Oh, she died." he replies quite airily, with no emotion, as if he were talking about a cat or dog, well less than that really. He was engaged to be married again. I never felt the same about him after that. In fact, he got more and more "hard corps" and the last time we saw him, he didn't even speak (we'd been DFAC'd and I was diabetic by then, so I guess word had gotten around). WAW, Let us know how Liz & husband are doing. I am so thankful you found them! WG

(((((((((Waysider)))))))) I am so sorry to hear of your childhood friend's death. Years ago, but the pain recurs, like a fresh wound appearing where we thought there was only a faint scar. I hope you know God's love is great for both of you. I remember Les G very well, and his wife J. They had the cute little boy and then another baby, I believe. As I recall, while on staff at HQ, he contracted some kind of an infection that ran rampant and eventually killed him. Too early for MRSA, but who knows? With the tender loving care TWI offered to those in medical need, it wouldn't have been unusual for someone to die from an infected hangnail. This was many years ago, but I remember him as a very nice man. I think he and his wife took over the positions at Ohio Limb once held by the infamous T** Jen***&&n and wife. I recall they left after our first year to go to HQ and were quite excited. I remember taking over a pickup truck load of organic fertilizer to their flower beds once. And they gave Mr. Garden and me a mahogony dining room table & chairs and sideboard (?) with the condition it be passed on to other "believers" when we were through with it. It stayed in Athens when Mr. Garden graduated. I am very thankful that I was initially in TWI under the auspices of a darn fine surgeon who strongly believed in God's healing power AND timely medical attention. It's extremely unfortunate he didn't have the influence over the folks at HQ he should have - oh gee I forgot! The powers that be get the medical attention, everyone else gets to "believe." I don't think the "rewards" God hands out to those folks are gonna be quite what they expected. WG

Mine was so real it made me cry. But I'm not sure if I'll send it to 7 people. WG

I should add, now that I have more time, that the above was muttered in an aside to me, and I have no idea whether it was serious or not. She may have been joking. If she really believes that, this individual desperately needs prayer. I have decided to drop out of the class. My entire relationship with God is at stake. Controversy and arguing make me ill, no doubt due to some of the previous TWI experiences I survived. Mr. Garden will be there, and his knowledge and diplomacy are far greater than mine. I do think most people were as dumfounded as I was, and there was a great deal of talk and chatter. I was angry, upset, and tearful, and didn't catch everything people tried to explain. Of course I wasn't too concerned with what they said; opinions are like noses; everyone has one and most of them smell. I won't be posting on this thread any more. Thanks and God bless every one of you who read this thread and responded. WG

Forgot to add this tidbit: One woman in the class informed me that Satan makes unbelievers sick and God makes believers sick. What is this all about? This class is making me sick. I don't think I'm going back. Maybe never. WG

Thanks, y'all. Thanks, Waysider for reminding of those storied days of yesteryear! I seriously think my emotions are trying to remind me of that happy soul, and a few others we met afterwards. I don't think the people in this class are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker, but it is alarming that they don't all jump up as a unit and state that yea, verily, the eminent doctor is out in the giggleweeds counting grasshoppers. One thing Wilkinson had said was that in Ezekiel God stated that there were different degrees of sin. He didn't give chapter and verse, mainly because he was referring to Ezekiel 9 (no bible dummy, I) and it is a freaking vision! A vision because the nation had sinned greatly. I have a lot of notes on it because LCM taught some blather or other that made equally no sense. The nation sinned and worshipped other gods. God gave His prophet a vision about it. It is in the sense of God "showing" Ezekiel different areas of the temple where people were sinning and then saying "You see how awful that is? Well, look over here, I'll show you something even worse!" At the end, he says he is going to clobber all of them, not to different degrees. No P.I. Another thing (and there are many) this guy teaches that causes me exceeding great displeasure is that we should do good works for one reason: We FEAR God's discipline (i.e. disease, weakness, death). I was freed from fearing God as a young woman and do good works (if that's what you want to call it) because He LOVES me and I love him. Penguin, I am not about to waste a dime or time on The Prayer of Jabez, but did he discuss titheing? I keep wondering where the money is in all of this. I know this man has made a huge fortune from the sale of his books, tapes, teaching series, etc. There is even a "secrets of the vine" for little small children, which had better never come near my grandson or heads will roll! I don't think it is a great idea to take one verse or one passage of the Bible and build a whole huge doctrin on it. Speaking of Jesus wept, you could conceivably take that verse, build a theology around it, and become the First Church of the Weepers or something. For every verse this guy picks to support his statements, I can usually think of two or three more that contradict him. Most of what he uses is out of context. John 9 contradicts his statement that sickness is a result of sin. So does John 10:10. So do a lot of other verses. Probably the biggie for me is working in a cancer hospital for a doctor who treated kids with cancer. If God gives people cancer to discipline them, what on earth did a 1 year old child do, what sin did this child commit to be thus "disciplined" by God? In John 9 Jesus says neither the man born blind nor his parents sinned. Newer versions stick in a word or two to indicate that God caused the man to be born blind so that Jesus could heal him. I don't believe this for a minute. Anyways, I'm hanging in there. I don't know if the pastor is going to set up a time to meeting with Mr. Garden or not. I suspect he was somewhat dismayed by the whole thing himself. He is good man who truly loves God and I have never heard him say anything to make me wonder if this is his theology also. I don't think it is. So I'm hanging on by a thread. Thanks for the support! WG

Awwwww...Maxx would have loved this! WG

Washington Weather, I think most of the people in the class are just as dumfounded as I am. I don't think there is much wholehearted agreement with the concept that God makes you sick or kills you, but they don't much know what to do. The pastor wants to have another class next Sunday with no video just to discuss this, and says that there is a lot of bad teaching out there. I have NEVER heard him pray for someone to get healed "if it be thy will" or teach that God brings calamity on His children, or anything like that. Bless Mr. Garden's heart, he did point out that the section in I Cor 11 refers to communion and quoated II Peter (by His stripes ye were healed). Someone I really respect pointed out that things like my diabetes happen and you can grow not because of it but in spite of it. I didn't have the heart to tell her that I am much much much less sure of my relationship to God now than I was before I was diabetic, or that I was "getting there" before this stupid class started up. Mr. Garden did e-mail the pastor with some questions and ask to meet with him to discuss his questions. They seem to be great friends. I have an extremely difficult time trusting anyone in a remotely leadership position, thanks to our mutual friends in Washington State and a couple other folks who were out there when we were. I told them I am deeply offended that anyone would suggest that God causes sickness and premature death to his saints to "discipline" them. I am a better parent than that, and I am not all that great of a parent. The section in Ezekiel that his eminence says proves there are different degrees of sin is Ezekiel 9. I haven't looked at it much, except that LCM used it to teach about evil spirits and I have some really weird notes in the margin of my Oxford. It is a vision. One chapter out of 66 books and NOWHERE else does it say that in the Bible. If this numbskull is right about God making me diabetic to chasten me I wish to he11 He'd tell my what I did so I could get healed of his chastening. But, I really think he is out in left field so far he can't see home plate! WG

You got it, Dooj! As much as it hurts me and scares me, I can't just walk away. I was very choked up as I spoke at times, but I was very honest. The weird thing is, the church doesn't teach this at all, and one of the more prominent individuals and I have had conversations regarding a close relative of this person who died a few years back, and how upsetting it was when this good, good, Christian man was dying that people from his church where he had gone for years and years, came and asked him what sin he had committed to cause God to give him cancer! This person is just as incensed as I am, but unfortunately not taking the class! One thing I intend to bring up next week, is that this man is just a man, nuthin' special except he's got some fame and money. (He sure as heck ain't no Billy Graham, I'll tell ya that right now!) And opinions are opinions, nothing more. I just hate it when people blame God for all kinds of junk that He had nothing to do with! And honestly, he is not nearly as riveting or charismatic as VPW, just more full of organic fertilizer. So I don't get what people see in him. But some people who are in the class are talking as if Jesus Himself is divulging great secrets, not some guy who wants to make more money selling books and tapes. (that's my private interpretation of this man's ultimate motivation). Come to think of it, wasn't there some discussion going on in the About The Way forum about "gimmicks", unique teachings people dream up to sell class and tapes? Interesting. WG