Watered Garden

Belle, The kids of this age, and from maybe 2-3 years on up, lived in rooms on the same hall with their parents, but were bunked in with other kids in their own age group. The elder corps kids were encouraged to train the newbies and would quickly tattle if there was a problem. I admire this kid that he tried to work with the offender himself and then was honest with Mom. By the way, it wasn't my kid. :) It was not right . We had very little overseeing time for our own children, they were watched by staff members, some bad, some good. Our son had repeated the first grade and was the same age as the sixth graders, who were allowed to stay up until 9 pm, whereas little baby fifth graders and younger had to go to bed at 8 pm. We meekly petitioned F***e Cl*** to let him stay up with kids his age, not his grade, and were rudely rebuffed. He was in the fifth grade, he could damn well go to bed with the other fifth graders. This of course only made things worse; he had stayed up until 9 at home. But rules are rules and there must be no exceptions, I guess. WG

I am so happy for you and I thank God for every minute you spent there. Joyce Meyer has given her life to Christ to use to do His good will. She is one of the most dynamic people I have ever heard. I hope you kept a prayer journal. This is something I vigorously resisted doing until about a month ago. Since then, it amazes me where i've been and what I'm learning. Have a safe trip home, honey. Your testimony has better my life. Love, WG

Actually, I would not be surprised if Brucie recommended some kind of sacrifice, other than that God just kills you if you aren't producing enough fruit, which makes no sense since you can't improve your fruit-production level if you're dead. It is certainly not what I would call a "Christian" view point. Mr. Garden indicated to me that not very many people are impressed, excited, blessed and thankful, or even agree with much of it. I looked up Brucie Boy and found a really good critique of "Secrets of the Vine" by a pastor-teacher at a seminary in Illinois. Though I didn't completely agree with some of his points either, he did point out that Wilkinson pulls stuff out of thin air that he declares God personally told him, that doesn't agree with Scripture and cannot be documented. He indicates, subtly or nonsubtly, to have a special connection whereby God gives him revelation over and above what He has revealed to other men. He brought up the point I think I made about God inviting only those to abide with Him who have produced "much" fruit. In John 15 Jesus says no such thing. He simply says, "Abide in me, and I will abide in you." He doesn't put so much as an implied condition upon it. This guy thought "Secrets" was better than "The Prayer of Jabez" but then he thought "Prayer" really stunk and this doesn't stink quite as much. He suggested the main purpose of the book was not so much to bless God's children with indepth study of scripture as to make money. Hmmmm...sound familiar? I realize, reading what I just wrote, that part of my concern and dismay is rooted in the old snow in July thing. Deja Vue all over again. Well, I won't be fooled again. Been there, done that, got the diplomas to prove it. WG

Sounds like just what you need! I love Joyce Meyer. I hope while you are there, great healing and deliverance occurs in your life and heart. I am so happy for you. You are such a sweetie, and I know God is keeping His eye on you and taking real good care of you. WG

I, too, slipped a couple bucks to someone occasionally. The individual Waysider mentioned was a true practitioner of charity. Our first year, we had liver and onions fairly frequently for our evening meal. There are those who can cook it, and those who can't. Mr. Garden's household was always fragrant with onions afterward, and also with the considerable amount of garlic he put on it to drown the taste. Probably the worst was wilted mustard greens. For some reason, the limb garden and yielded a bumper crop of mustard greens that summer, and it was the brain child of someone to make wilted mustards greens, as wilted lettuce is made, but with hot, peppery mustard greens. I never liked wilted lettuce as a child and found wilted mustard greens to be well-nigh unpalatable. * *For those who are familiar with neither, clean leaf lettuce or mustard greens are placed in a large bowl. The sauce if you can call it that, is comprised of egg, crumbled bacon, vinegar and oil, very sour and nasty, which is heated to boiling and poured over the bowl of greens, thus wilting it. This was The Meal, not a side dish. We had this several times, until somehow the mustard greens died a mysterious death, I suspect at the hands of the individual in charge of the 1 1/2 acre garden behind limb, my future husband. Or maybe it was the collective believing of 42 disgusted FLO's. WG

They were the limb coordinators for two of the three years we were in WA. Soon after I was diagnosed with IDDM, I asked Barbara about receiving healing. Instead of offering to pray for me, she told me to continue to read the bible until I saw the desired results, and I think some of that old crap about taking your medicines until they make you sick. If you take too much insulin, it will make you DEAD in short order. I thought she was really cold and aloof. She made me feel dirty and inadequate. Tom, on the other hand, seemed fairly nice. He loved western WA and it is no surprise to me he returned there. They were replaced by Roman Steciew. Talk about being chastised with scorpions! WG

More Secrets of the Vine: (from the workbook; I didn't go back to the class.) Secret #2 "Fruit" to "more Fruit" In this exciting session we learn that after we start producing some fruit (internal fruit is becoming more Christ-like and external fruit is performing good works), God quits disciplining us and starts pruning us. Pruning is designed to be extremely painful. You must experience pain in order to be properly pruned. God will use several methods of pruning you. Wilkinson uses Joseph as an example. Joseph was old testament and we are under a different covenant, (the blood of Jesus) as Christians, but anyway he says God prunes you with the following tools: Possessions Money, House, Furniture, Jewelry, Clothing, Retirement, Recreation Positiion in the family, church, organization, community, business. Physical Sickness, weakness, discomfort, exhaustion, pregnancy, blind, deaf, aging People Family, friends, employer, employees, co-workers, government, strangers Profession Job title, responsibilities, demotion/promotion, success/failure, competition Place Location of home, employment, transfer, desk location, church move Plan: When you think you've got it all figured out Plans to get married, children, education, succeed, finances, retire God will use the above tools to cause horrible things to happen to you so that you are prepared for greater things. Example is Joseph's life from favored child to slave to Potiphar to prison to ruler of Egypt. The third secret of the vine is that "IF you bear a lot of fruit, God will invite you to abide more deeply with Him." Notice the IF. God apparently wants nothing to do with you, other than to cause you great suffering and harm, unless you are producing a LOT of fruit in your life. Huge baskets, heaped with fruit from here to Alpha Centauri. THEN AND ONLY THEN does God invite you to abide more deeply with Him. I really wonder if I want to serve a God like that. However, I do NOT believe that God causes horrible things to happen to me for any reason. I don't believe God scourges people, tests people, or is only friendly with those who bribe Him with enough fruit of good works and Christ like thinking and behavior. (That reminds me of the immortal declaration: "God won't even so much as SPIT in your direction unless you tithe a MINIMUM of 10%.") I think this guy is almost as good at twisting scripture as TWI. Maybe better. His blatherings have certainly reached a larger audience. I wish my husband would drop this garbage, but he is the assistant instructor. I know he knows better. I think this class is almost over. I doubt, however, that I go back to Sunday school ever. I am attending the women's bible study, which I like, and we are in a small group which is actually training for small group leaders, and that's okay too. But my deepest heart is no longer trusting of God or this church or anything else. I wish I could shake this off. It is such bull-oney. But it hurts me deeply and hinders my relationship with my heavenly Father. I did look up criticsm of the author on Google and there is a lot of it, mostly aimed at the Prayer of Jabez book. It includes using scripture out of context, name it-claim it theology, watered down thinking, and being downright mercenary. Some warn strongly against formulaic prayer. Some of the same criticisms aimed against Rick Warren are cited regarding Wilkinson as well (no surprise there; they consider themselves partners). I always thought of Jabez as being "make me famous, make me rich" for Christians, and apparently I was right. I am not sure anyone took "Secrets" as seriously as I am. I would not want to ever promote this crap to anyone else, especially someone searching for a deeper relationship with God. I personally wonder why this bird is teaching out of the old testament and the gospels. He does quote from the new testament but a lot out of the old testament and a lot of everything out of context. In closing, I think anyone who really wants to know the nature of God needs to look more closely at the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, who, whether one believes in his diety or not, was surely the image of God in the flesh. Jesus did not scourge anyone except the moneytraders in the temple, and he was not interested in discipline as much as getting the evil out of the house of God. He taught his disciples with love and tenderness and humor. He never ever caused anyone to become sick or to die in order to make them closer to him. He actually raised people from the dead. He was love and kindness personified. People learned from him not out of fear but out of love. He said, "I always do the will of my Father." Apparently, that didn't include making people closer to God by "pruning" them with all this distress and bad things mentioned above. I would rather be like Jesus than like Wilkinson. I would rather love Jesus than fear the Father's heavy hand upon my life. I think "Secrets of the Vine" is an insult to God. WG

Sorry about Texas, Darlin'. This was on the news when the artist first finished it. That's not bonkers in Buckeye Country, man, that's superb! And that was TBDBITL playing in the background. WG

Han only knows.

Cinder, I apologize for letting myself be enticed down a rabbit trail. Seems someone may have an "enticing" spirit around here. Seriously, the whole DOS thing is just too strange. Look, I took the advanced class in 1976 and I was never in a position to say "Okay, God, is so-and-so possessed, and if so, by what, and if so and by what, may I cast it out?" The closest I ever came to anything of the sort was when I had just moved to Charleston and was walking my dog down the street, headed home. It was about dark:thirty and a car pulled up beside me, and the guy behind the wheel mumbled something at me. I said "Excuse me?" and I don't know what else he said, because without looking it up in the syllabus, or reaching into the cookie jar, or anything else, I knew in a flash that this man meant me great harm, and I shouted at him, "You get the he11 out of here IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!" He hit the accelerator so fast his tires screamed and he went flying down the road. I never saw him again. I believe that was discerning of spirits. No time to explore, examine or categorize. Just had to move it on down the line. WG

Rhino, the ver sight makes me shiver! WG

I've been in several churches where NONE of this was taught. I don't what they taught in Evangelical and Reformed, but they don't teach manifestations of holy spirit at all in most churches. If touched on at all, they are called gifts. And Mike, it seems you are all about the information. I haven't seen any answers to the questions I've asked. I can't see that it is important to know this just so we can be different from a "real" church. That's not the purpose for information; we should be wanting to deliver people from the wiles of Satan and bring them to Christ. I guess my whole question is not why the great doctor wanted people to know this, but what good does it do to know it in the realm of serving others the bread of life. There is no sense knowing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin unless it is information you can use to help someone come closer to God. Unless you just want to be the one in the know. As Christians, we shouldn't be falling into the abuses, period. Knowledge puffeth up, remember? WG

Ours contained, and I don't know the measurements: RAW steel cut oats. sunflower seeds dried dates sesame seed flax seed, frequently LOTS of flax seeds. The oil in flax seeds is good for smooth muscle, such as arteries, veins and heart, and also is A SURE FIRE ANTIDOTE FOR CONSTIPATION nuts, sometimes pecans, or walnuts or almonds sometimes coconut. sometimes cinnamon ALWAYS flax seeds maybe dried apples once in a while Don't forget to add extra flax seeds It wasn't really all that bad. It was the monotony of having it for breakfast 10-12 mornings in a row. It was sometimes replaced by a bowl of wheat berries. I'm not sure if wheat berries are really wheat. They were to be soaked in ice water in the refrigerator overnight before serving. They could then be simmered in water on the stove in the morning while we prayed and jogged, then served warm, or, as my house leader decided, served fresh from the fridge, drained of their water but stilll icy and refreshing and served with milkl. They had no flavor at all and were the consistency of rubber bands. I think mush was occasionally on the morning menu. Of course, the best way to make mush is to cook cornmeal in the appropriate amount of boiling water, pour into a pan, let chill overnight, then slice and fry in butter. But we ate ours straight from the pot. With a half stick of butter and some salt and pepper it was kinda like grits, but mushy.Other folks put sugar in theirs. and milk. WG

Geo, I went through the same damn thing when our son was 15. He rode a bike into the back of a parked van, whilst staring at some girl he liked. He now has a five tooth bridge. Health insurance paid for it since it was in the context of an accident. They heal faster than you think they will. Hopefully a great dentist will be around who can fix up the broken teeth. WG

But why is this information, if it is such, even necessary, in either partial or complete form? I am into helping people, but my point that I guess I'm not making very clear, is that you just can't go around "discerning spirits" and help anyone other than yourself. And what kind of help is that? To prove to yourself that you are indeed a most exceedingly great and might person of God? I think it's nice that people think they can do this, but I wonder if in a way it's not the power of suggestion kicking in. I mean, if someone is doing such and such, you can just pull out out the old AC syllabus, check the list, and plug in the name/category of a devil spirit that has to be causing it. In the least I think these definitions limit God. And I think the whole damn AC was very dangerous. I saw people come back from the AC with so many stupid ideas, it blows me away, the least of which is that Star Wars promoted the holy trinity. (Darth the father, Luke the son, and Yoda the holy spirit) WG

What I was trying to convey is that many, many people took these definitions and made them a gospel of sorts. I don't even believe very much of what I learned in the Adv. Class any more, primarily because it can lead one to think s/he is so amazingly spiritual, so very in tune with God, that by memorizing a definition like the one Mike so graciously posted above, s/he can receive revelation from God every time s/he turns around. This can lead to individuals categorizing someone by their behavior, their looks, something they say or do and rattling off, not from scripture, but from a human-inspired definition of that individual's PERCEIVED problem. So it ends up that a person is labelled, "possessed" or "born of the seed of the serpent" when the poor fellow just needed some medication or a hug. A biggie I do recall is a list someone put together of the characteristics of various categories of devil spirits. I think it was in the Athletes tape but also in the adv. class. So all you have to do is write down the characteristics and walk around looking for trouble. "Oh, that guy over there? He looks sad. I bet he's possessed with a spirit of depression." Or, "Oh, that guy is wearing a pink necktie. Bet he's got a homo spirit." See what I mean? I am a screaming little bytch when my blood sugar gets out of control. If it's too high, I can snap your head off for nothing. Low enough, and I hallucinate, thrash and scream in my sleep. The latter is a precursor to death from acute hypoglycemia, and if my husband were of the mindset that every aberration in behavior is caused by devil spirit possession, I'd be in a very deep state of death right now. What I'm trying to say is "Be very careful indeed with this stuff. It can do much more harm than good." I would say off hand more people were hurt than helped with this informtion. WG

I was never real good at memorizing, rules and regulations and 10 line definitions like those on the Adv. Class retemories, so I just asked God to let me know if I need to know anything about a situation or individual. I usually didn't and don't ask for revelation in any situation. I never saw a lot of Biblical truth in what was taught in the Adv. Class, as much as complicated examples extrapolated from scripture that was as much private interpretation as I could have come up with on my own. That said, there are still times when being around an individual will give me a little icy shiver up my spine that has nothing to do with the air temperature around me. It seems to say "Be aware! This person has spiritual problems." No technicolor vision, no flashing lights, no little voice whispering in my brain. Just that little icy shiver. It started happening when I worked as a receptionist at a "residential facility for behaviorally-challenged adolescent females" populated by order of the court with some very scary young ladies. It still happens today, including when I hand out a sample at work sometimes. I suppose it's God's way of putting me on yellow alert. I just don't give it much thought. And I smashed the cookie jar that was full of pain and misinformation years ago. I will say this, and I'm putting it in all capital letters because it is critically important: BE DAMN CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY TO PEOPLE OR ACCUSE OR DIAGNOSE THEM OF HAVING OR DOING!!!!! DON'T PREACH ANYTHING TO SHOW OFF HOW CLEVER OR SPIRITUAL YOU ARE! LIVES CAN DEPEND ON IT! Ask Waysider if you doubt the above. He lost a friend secondary to some seed of the serpent BS some little Adv. Class grad spewed without thinking, and likely without having a clue what she was really talking about. Get over the "VP said it, that settles it, I believe it" mindset. Read the Bible. Learn to think. Be compassionate. God gave us one mouth and two ears. Maybe He wants us to listen twice as much as we talk. WG

Waysider was in the wrong men's apartment. The one Mr. Garden headed almost never had familia and never had wheat berries, because Mr. Garden went to the grocery store and purchased eggs, potatoes, sausage and bacon, along with pancake mix, butter and syrup, and fixed breakfast so that he could have something really edible. One would think he would have received serious reproof and correction (which is instruction in righteousness) by the FLO coordinator, who lived in that particular house. But no, he liked real breakfast too! When the apartment was cleaned between 3rd year graduation and the entrance of the hapless 5th year FLO, there was amazement at one kitchen cupboard, filled with gigantic bags of familia which Mr. Garden had thoughtfully left behind. My household coordinators were on the legalistic side and we were not only commanded to eat the freakin' wheat berries but ENJOY :blink: them as they are provided for our health and nutrition. Many's the time when my day began with a trip to the L&K for a real breakfast, even if some thoughtful, deeply concerned soul had added a few extra handfuls of flax seeds to the familia. It just wasn't the same as breakfast. WG

Outfield, TWI"s attitude about depression was very wrong, especially in the later years. We had a fellowship coordinator who met us at the door and demanded if we had our family decent and in order and our attitudes were positive, or we were not allowed in her gracious home. We had a rebellious son, were under the gun for that, and I had been diagnosed with insulin dependent diabetes. So of course things were not decent and in order." We desperately needed real help, love, and understanding that this women could not provide, nor could anyone else in that organization. I was horribly depressed, I think they call it "situational depression." I always smiled, lied and said yes, of course, because they said to be depressed is a sin which either can or has already lead to possession with a spirit of depression. But inside I was desperate and lost. The reason, in my opinion, for this insanity on the leader's and TWI's part is that they HAVE NO ANSWERS! Faced with the problems of life, TWI is like a person in the jungle who sees a huge bull elephant charging right at them, closes their eyes, and thinks that makes the elephant disappear! You get people the help they need, period. If it's prayer, pray for them. If it's mental illness, pray on the way to the doctor's office. Perhaps indeed the "believing," whatever that is, of some of these folks staved off physical and mental illness, but I doubt it. My personal opinion of LCM is that he may well suffer for some mental illness, and his "in-depth spiritual awareness and perception" didn't help him one darn bit. I may be, in their evaluation, much less spiritual than they, but I think I am better equipped to help people than I was when I was "in." WG

Dot, Sometimes I think about life without Sophie, and I cry too. She is in pain a lot of the time. She has good days and bad days. Yesterday, she was downright sprightly. Today, she just wants to be left alone to sleep on her favorite rug. She needs her Adequan shot and I will make the appointment today. Thanks for caring so much. I appreciate that and so does The Queen. WG

Another Brandy story: Brandy hated for me to sleep in late. Mr. Garden would get up and let him out and all, but I enjoyed my Saturday morning snooze. However, he set about to change this. First, he would stand at the foot of the bed and stare fixedly at my face. It is an eerie sensation to be stared at in one's sleep; some primitive part of the brain begins to stir uneasily. If that didn't work, he would come over to my side of the bed, stick his big wet nose in my ear and inhale deeply. This usually worked, as it seemed like my brain would be sucked out by his vacuum-cleaner like proboscis. However, if that still didn't rouse me, he would find my elbow, stick his head under it, and start flipping my arm up until I surrendered. Once I swung my feet over the side of the bed, he would do a little victory dance. He was the most aggravating dog I've ever seen. He knew no master but my husband. He would take off on a neighborhood tour and was impossible to catch until he wanted to be caught. No trick worked on him more than once. He was wicked smart, and could be a real pain in the rear. I still miss him. WG

Oh, gosh, I'm so sorry this is a day late! Happy Birthday! Thanks for all you've helped me with, your insight, your stedfastness. I send you my very best wishes and Sophie sends you a slurp from a big pink tongue! WG

My son told me that if a child touched a wall, they received a wallop with the omnipresent spoon. Good grief, we had to CLEAN the freakin' place every blessed day! That staircase that was wide and made of red oak was dusted and waxed at least once in every 24-hour period. The restrictions on children in FWC were unbelievable. WG

Highway, I distinctly remember that phrase "There is not a one of you who is worthy of the PRIVILEGE of carrying my jockstrap!" I wanted to throw up at the very thought. Then I wanted, and wish I had, to jump up from my seat in the chapel at RC and shout at the top of my lungs: THANK YOU JESUS! I bet that would've got us set free from FWC in a big hurry! WG

When we went into the FWC we were told, "Oh, it's so wonderful! You will get to spend so much more time with your son than you do now, with both of you working:. Then the program starts. Guess what! We are BOTH STILL WORKING! We have to get up earlier than we did at home, gobble some inedible something for breakfast and our son, who is not a morning person, is hustled off to morning fellowship at the school bus stop. We are hustled off to this and that, me usually cleaning something, occasionally cleaning freshly gathered eggs (they did let us wear gloves for which I am eternally grateful). Nothing we do is right. My husband and I were on a canning crew for a while. Now two things we know about are proper food processing and canning tomatoes. But OH NO we suddenly don't know beans from barium. Of course you DO NOT throw out the rotten tomatoes, or cut out spots that are rotten, or remove leaves that are still attached or vines that are hanging there. We were permitted to wash them in ice cold water then into the pot they went. We made salsa without onions and without garlic, because Reverend Martindale, our wonderful Man of God, hates onions and garlic. That's tomato sauce folks. Come to think of it, I put onions and garlic in tomato sauce too. Corps nights were mostly bytch sessions. We almost never saw our son, but he made his presence known by stealing food from the Corps kitchen on the third floor, throwing eggs across Adam's Alley, stealing candy from peoples' rooms, and emptying his bladder into a sanitary product receptacle in the co-ed bathroom we all used. He was absolutely miserable, but couldn't talk to us about it because we were either working or exhausted. The 19th WC kids tried to rule his life, the staff beat the crap out of him every opportunity, and he felt totally abandoned. He told me once, "It was like you were the Jews and they were the Nazis." It ruined our relationship with our child. It completely blew any trust we might have built up with him since we adopted him at age 8. I don't blame him one bit. My only excuse is that we had NO IDEA what was going on until he acted out so badly we were dropped from the Corps. No one came and told us he was having problems. He was 11 years old. OF course we were so terrified ourselves, there wouldn't have been much to do. Some day I would like to think WC and a few other people there would like to apologize for what they did to him. WG