Watered Garden

Irish during the early 1900's, I doubt would have brought a family Bible, as that would've likely been the property of the eldest son, and eldest sons seldom immigrated. The immigrants would've have undoubtedly brought a rosary, perhaps a crucifix and/or pictures or statues of the Holy Blessed Virgin. There is an excellent PBS film called "Out of Ireland," which my husband's stepfather, who originally introduced himself to me as "I am Irish. I am Catholic. I am a Democrat." owns. The next generation, my husband and his siblings, watched it one evening while I snoozed in a nearby lounge chair. I do remember that starting in the late 19th century there was a movement in Ireland within the Church to worship the Blessed Mother. I'm not sure whether that is where the Marianists got their start, but those who came to the shores of America brought special devotion to Mary with them. The Democrat part? Well that was a result of the bigotry against the Irish that promptly grew amongst the prim and proper merchants and landowners, who put in their help wanted ads and shop windows "No Irish Need Apply." The Democrat party rescued, legitimized and enfranchised the Irish, as they have been doing for minority groups ever since. Thus most Irish-Americans to this day will vote Democrat. I'm not sure what the original patriarch of the clan brought with him, other than a 4'10" wife who gave him a dozen children and a whole lotta smarts. But I'm sure about the Rosary to say the Hail Mary's with. WG

The Holy Spirit is my all time favorite. I like Joyce Meyer too. WG

I gotta say "AYE" on the donation part. That would be a very, very neat thing to do, Oldies. WG

Raf, Count me in on the prayers. And add my prayers for Paul, you and your wife. You all are not alone in this. I pray God to give all of you the strength and faith you will need. WG

Maureen O'Sullivan? WG

Maureen O'Sullivan?

When we were dismissed from the FWC, the little woman in WA who decided to figure out what was wrong with us, with our relationship, decided that I was not submissive enough to my husband. She spewed forth some of the above, especially the "line up your thinking with that of your husband" crap. Several months later, at a meeting including the BC, he asked me how we were doing. "Just fine," was my polite reply; "nunya f-ing business" would've been more honest and accurate. "See!" he exclaimed triumphantly. "You do what the Word says and submit to your husband, and everything's just so much better!" It took me a long time to figure out what THAT was all about, but I finally put it together. WG

Actually, these people were quite active in the Ft. Worth area when I was a WOW there in 1974-75. Their comic-book style booklet, "The Flirty Little Fishy," was put into my hands as I waited for a red light to change and I of course handed a pamphlet of my own right back to the raggedy little girl who "blessed" me with it. I was horrified. Tenderhearted and naive, with no idea what went on in the inner sanctum of TWI, it broke my heart that these kids were being so duped. Ironic. We had some trouble while they were hanging around, handing out leaflets and selling flowers on street corners, explaining that we were not them. WG

One more comment on posts -- Most of us type more slowly than we think. A post written in anger can be reviewed before you hit that "add reply" button at the bottom. I've posted a few things I regret, some deeply, and what I have learned from that is to edit and read carefully before I add a reply to a thread. I edit first for grammar and spelling and then I read it again to see if (a) what I have posted is true to the best of my knowledge and memory; (b) I've posted anything remotely interpretable as slanderous; and © is this going to really, really hurt or offend or anger someone who reads it? Is it too personal? Am I being completely clear or am I engendering confusion and innuendo? I think JohnIam could have done that. It's easy to respond with knee-jerk reflex anger at what we perceive as a personal attack, but doesn't Proverbs say someplace that "a soft answer turneth away wrath, but grievous words stir up anger."? And if I don't want some stupid, ignorant comment of mine to be repeated back to me ad infinitum, I need to keep it to myself - or at least off the internet. WG

It wasn't so much WHAT she taught, it was the WAY she taught it. I am taking a class from material by Elizabeth George that says much the same, that women should be the managers of their household, Love their husbands, keep the place clean, raise the children with love and discipline and nurture (but NOT beatings), etc. She teaches it as an expression of love and respect, DM taught it almost as a burden, a supreme self-sacrifice. I believe there are great benefits and rewards to be had by doing my best to be a good wife and mother, and now grandmother, that certainly outweigh the inconvenience I experience from time to time. And then again, there's the example thing Mr. Ham and Skyrider mentioned. I'd rather hear this from someone who's been a successful missionary, whose husband is a professor, who has done her personal best to live what she's teaching (and is not ashamed to use her own failings as examples), than someone who obviously has fallen short of the mark, but is unwilling to present herself as anything less than perfect. DM also mentioned that a wife should strive to not have very many opinions, but should ask her husband what HIS opinion was and then align her thinking with his. This is all very well and good if you aren't too bright. MY husband thinks I'm a pretty smart cookie and values my opinion. I in turn respect HIS intelligence and wisdom, and he is the CEO of our little company of two. The thing about the father as head of the household deciding when his child is mature enough for sexual activity to my mind is really weird. I find it odd that it would be stated that a father should be that involved in his daughter's sexuality. The concept of a daddy saying to his little girl, aged 12, 13, 14, whatever, "Okay, honey, you seem mature enough to me. Here's a package of condoms, now go have fun!" sounds really perverted in a weird sort of way. WG

Haven't give a thought to Christmas yet, but like others, we are not able to spend much. I did do a right nice job for my husband's birthday last month. At Costco they had a huge package of about 8 boxes of Swiss Miss hot chocolate mixes, about 4 different flavors. It was less than $10, and since he loves hot chocolate in the winter, he was thrilled. Since I'm diabetic, I don't drink that stuff, so it was all his until the grandson showed up this weekend! :) WG

JohnIam, There is no excuse for using such crude and vulgar language. While I frequently disagree with your posts, I have in the past thought you to be literate and more than able to state your POV without such untoward imagery. WG

When I took "Principles of a Believer's Family" in 1996 it was video. This is the one where LCM states it is the decision of the husband/father, as head of the household, when the children are old enough to become sexually active. This sent cold chills down my spine. Also there was a whole session on DM teaching Proverbs 31. I still have notes in my Oxford Bible from that teaching. "She BLEEDS OUT HER LIFE for her husband for that home, for those children." Really makes you wanna be a virtuous woman, doesn't it? It was, as mentioned before, pretty boring for the most part. I am delighted to say it was the last class I ever took in TWI. WG

Happy Birthday from the wet and chilly Midwest from WG and Mr. Garden. Can't tell you how glad I am to know ya! WG

Unassuming modesty. Does not flaunt his/her knowledge/degrees/ordination/whatever. Willing to do whatever to help (see cool chef's example) Kind. Honest but loving does not seek their own glory WG

Those of us who instructed this class or took this class, for the most part thought we were doing the right thing at the time we were doing it. I took it several times, the first at a summer camp type situation where I nearly left the ministry as a result, and had to be reassured by calling my twig leader long distance to have him tell me it was okay. Would he encourage me to stick it out now? I seriously doubt it. I don't have time for any more. I agree it was really strange. But those were strange times and a lot of strange stuff got labeled exciting truths that required the "renewed mind" to properly understand them. WG

HB from WG!

I am so sorry the medical staff where your dad is being treated is so lame. There is no excuse for their untoward behavior. I would suggest keeping a journal of incidents such as that doctor who was so unfeeling. Living wills do provide for comfort measures to prevent pain. My aunt had a living will and when she was dying they gave her injections of viscous Valium and continued to suction her airway until she passed. You will want to look at skilled nursing facilities very closely also. WG

I can remember when I was no older than 3 being in downtown Indianapolis with my mother, crying and holding onto her skirt, terrified I was going to get lost. She was laughing at me. I can also remember in about the same time frame, maybe a little later, the neighbor's black cat jumping on a window box in a front window and looking into the kitchen with big yellow eyes. Scared the daylights out of me. I can remember the sound of a branch scraping against the house that night, making me think the cat was coming to get me. I can remember my tonsillectomy at age 5, the terrifying trip down the hall on a gurney, screaming for my parents, who were standing in the hall waving goodbye. I remember the nurses put me on another table, unwound a huge, thick leather belt and belted me to the table. They put something over my face and something came out of it that smelled funny. Afterward I had the mother of all sore throats and got to go to my grandmother's house for recuperation. I remember how sweet my grandmother was; she smelled like Noxema and the milk from her refrigerator tasted better than anything on earth. I can remember my mother teaching me to pray. WG

I guess I would say that when the world (or Satan) hands you lemons, God hands you the recipe for lemonade. God knew in His foreknowledge what would happen to Joseph, but Joseph's faith and reliance on God opened the door for God to work with him and in him to save his people. Likewise Moses. What if he hadn't turned aside to see the burning bush? Another example would be the man born blind in John 9. It is popularly taught that God predestined the man to be born blind specifically so that His son could come along and heal him. This sounds like a set-up to me. I don't think it is in the nature of God to do that to someone. Take out the man-inserted punctuation and it makes more sense. I do believe, however, that adverse experiences make us stronger (or weaker, depending on our attitude). When some of this subject came up, people talked about how "that which does not kill us makes us stronger." A couple of people are very glad and thankful for diseases that came their way because it was such a great learning experience. They are sure that God predestined them to suffer this disease to improve their faith. I improve my faith by studying the Bible and trying to live love. I do have insulin dependent diabetes, so I had to think whether I am a stronger person because of it and what I have learned. I would say I am a stronger person IN SPITE of it, and yes, I have learned. I can count carbohydrates and measure insulin doses. I can also, because of TWI's reaction to my diagnosis, smell a boatload of legalism a mile away, and a boatload of BS two miles away. Does this mean God predestined me to become diabetic? I don't think so. It's just what I picked up on as a result. Sorry for the slight just an added explanation of the reason this subject came up. WG

Awesome posts, all of you. Thanks so much! It's Black Friday and I work in a large membership/warehouse type store, and I gotta go fight traffic. More later! Waysider, Oakspear, Alfakat, Socks, Sky4it et al, thanks again! WG

That is truly awesome! I don't think anyone in my family has ever had kidney stones, but I understand it is some of the worst pain out there. Thanks for posting. Keep up the good works. WG

I don't know that I can add much doctrinally, but we had a question-and-answer session in our church Sunday as a sermon series was wrapping up. Somehow we touched on the subject of death. One person stated that death was NOT evil, death is a friend. I pointed out the verse in Romans "the last enemy that shall be defeated is death." "Yes but death is not evil" was the quick reply. The pastor chimed in with how he is actually looking forward to his death because then he will be in heaven with Jesus. Not looking forward to the dying process, though. I don't believe death was in God's original plan, since if Adam and Eve had not sinned they would have not had the seeds of death sown in them. However, they did, and now we all do. I don't think death is something to look forward to myself. For one thing, I don't believe people go immediately to heaven or hell upon their demise. There's too much in the Bible that contradicts that POV. I do believe that ultimately I will have eternal life through Christ Jesus my lord. Hope this helps. I'm more into simple faith than complex theologies these days. WG

((((((Nero)))))) Praying for your mom, your dad, and you... WG

Thansk for posting this inspiring message, and thanks Oldies, for the link. WG