Watered Garden

You will probably have oregano plants six feet tall next summer. And the answer is "Anywhere he wants to." That is totally hilarious. WG

I understand that was the official version. The term was used for many purposes, to flatter, cajole, and also to threaten, reprove, and as a "put-down." WG

How can someone teach out one side of his mouth that God's Word is so simple even a child can understand it, and then teach out of the other side you have to be "spiritually mature" to REALLY understand it? I may not have been spiritually mature or a graduate of the Way Corps, but I can smell a load of BS 50 miles this side of the state legislature when the wind blows in the right direction, and that was pure BS. The first time I heard it was in Charleston, and I still don't like and I never did. WG

HB from WG! (too technologically deficient to do fancy things like the one above)

One of my nephews got married a couple years ago to a Catholic girl. They were married in his church, which was a Protestant one, and her priest came and participated in the ceremony. Last summer he converted to Catholicism. I've know this kid for, well, all his life, and I really don't understand why he would do this, especially now, after they've been married a while. But they are back in their hometown and her family I'm sure would want her married to a true Son of The Church. When my own son asked me what kind of girl I wanted him to marry, I just told him to marry someone who loves God, loves him, and can make him happy. A clean house and healthy happy kids were on the menu, but not as important, I thought. Cult, denomination, sect, I dunno. Seems like some care more than others. I'm glad for Mrs. Waysider, really glad she didn't get sucked into the vortex. WG

It is in the archives under churches, doctrines and something else. I started that thread for an entirely different reason, mostly because I had taught in a small group in someones' home, at the leader's invitation, and the leader's wife got upset because a WOMAN had TAUGHT OUT OF THE BIBLE in front of MEN! It went on from there. Perhaps someone can combine them at sometime if everyone so desires. WG

When Mr. Garden was in college at OU in Athens, Ohio, we were shocked to drive by the colusseum or whatever it was called and see a motor coach parked there. Later we found that they were having the live advanced class 1979 there. So we got to see motor coaches then too. The old camper came to our apartment complex when we were WOWs and then again for some concert or something, but the second time they stayed in a Holiday Inn. WG

I think the perception of being in a cult or not is pretty subjective in many instances, and I also think it depends on a very subjective impression of who and when. An awful lot of folks say TWI was a cult from the get-go, whereas others would say it was a cult only after LCM took over. Again, it's a totally subjective viewpoint based on the individual's point of view and personal experiences. I hesitate to post anything here that isn't mainstream as I usually get put in my place rather quickly. By mainstream I mean TWI was always a cult, everything about it was bad, everything taught was wrong, and every leader without exception was either a whore or a whoremonger. That is the official viewpoint and doctrine of GSC most of the time. Say anything to the contrary and hatred and contempt will be heaped upon your head. Ask Oldies if you don't believe me. I don't always agree with the guy but I frequently feel sorry for him. And I'm not talking about the claims of sexual abuse that have been made here. I'm not discounting that at all. I'm sure had I been viciously attacked and brutally raped my subjective impression would be a lot different. But my personal experience most of my 23 years wasn't all that bad, just with certain individuals. But do I really feel that way? Do I dare say the first 20 years were worth the last 3? No of course not. WG

I believe we are members of the Body of Christ on earth. Bride of Christ in heaven. Don't know the scriptures to follow up with this, but that is what my church teaches, and for now I'm good with that. I guess I should do some research of my own. The reason TWI taught Israel is the Bride of Christ is because they teach Jesus Christ and the Gospels are all Old Testament and for our learning only, as the Old Testament does not apply to us. I don't think that is right. WG

Was that two beers or two pitchers? :blink: FLO was dry as a 200 year old bone. So two drinks sounded wonderful. WG

I once heard Joyce Meyer refer to her husband, Dave, as being her covering. Perhaps it refers to some kind of authority? I sure as heck don't see any leadership covering for me. I always thought the blood of Jesus Christ covered all my sin, in fact I'm quite sure of it. WG

Is this the class where LCM describes a young lady who was talking to CG and then saw him shape-shift into VPW? That was soo creepy. We were in the process of moving to NC and I had to stay behind to sell the house. When I arrived on a weekend in NC to spend the weekend with Mr. Garden, I was hustled off to listen to the tapes. B*** Gre**e was running the show. I don't remember anything other than what Oakspear listed, and not as well as he, at that. I do remember a question and answer session, and that some guy asked about "all the women who were sexually abused by VPW and what was the ministry going to do to help them?" BG just went off on him, said he had had extensive interviews with so-and-so (and either he or the guy asking the question named a name) and this woman was possessed with a fantasy spirit and some other blather. I just sat stunned. I wish I had jumped in, but I didn't. I was just a little TC from SC and didn't know squat about what had been going on for many years after that. WG

The more I think about this topic, the more shivers I get. When we were in FWC 20 we had to take a hunter's safety course and fire a .22 rifle and a shotgun of our choice (I chose the 20 gauge and it still knocked me on my butt). It did get me over my fear of firearms though. But the very thought of a bunch of socalled men and women of God in a big important meeting and some of them, including the thug who called the meeting to begin with, carrying firearms in there, what on earth? These guys are just plain nuts and I wish I'd left sooner than I did. There's just nothing left there that remotely resembles the teachings of Jesus. But then, He never was all that important to TWI, I guess. WG

Waysider may remember this, though it was kept kinda quiet at the time. Our first year in FLO, HO**** YER**** Jr was limb leader (they were leaders back then, not coordinators). He had a big old 45 caliber revolver, dirty Harry type of firearm, and enjoyed sitting on the hill behind the limb home shooting out past the woods and across the field behind the woods. The field also contained the 2 1/2 acre organic garden where we toiled so many happy hours growing vegetables. At that point there was an irrigation problem and someone had set up a large kiddie pool with hard plastic sides to fill with a hose run down the hill and through the woods to the front of the garden. Mr. Garden was in charge of the garden, and first was dismayed to find a large hole in the side of the kiddie pool, rendering it well nigh useless. He was even more dismayed one day when his fellow fellowlaborers, who were out weeding, noticed what sounded like some very large bees buzzing around them. This, interestingly enough, coincided with some very loud BANG noises coming from up the hill. Seems the limb leader hadn't noticed there were people pulling weeds. Mr. Garden, no respecter of persons, hustled up the hill and told the limb leader in no uncertain terms that he was endangering the folks out back and to cease and desist immediately. This same guy used to blast ducks out of season when they were swimming in the creek behind the house and barn. I am not sure he meant to intimidate, (he was a very nice guy) but he sure scared the daylights out of most of us. WG

One thing comes to mind - I'm sure when firearms were used for intimidation purposes, there were no witnesses around who might blab. I'm sure Mr. L would have happily lied under oath should LCM have suddenly blasted away an unhappy individual confronting him. "It was self-defense." Sure it was. WG

So is the congregation blessed because they tithe, or do they tithe because they are blessed? When LCM published his infamous article in the Way Mag about the tithe is when he first uttered the immortal phrase "If you do not tithe a minimum of 10%, God will not even spit in your direction." He wrote and published that with the full knowledge and approval of VPW. What dribble! Articles like that are written by moneygrubbers with diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain. WG

And I do remember being reproved when I lived in Charleston SC for witnessing to and praying with an for my dentist, who was already a Christian, a Baptist in fact, and had no interest in the PFAL class. That was a waste of time. Never mind the man thought he had stuck himself while working in someone's mouth who might have had a fatal disease and begged for my prayers. OHHECKNO don't share the greatness of God's Word with a Baptist! Lemme share something here: I don't think God is the least bit stingy with His love and blessings. And I think He hears the prayers of those whom He loves, no matter what label mankind puts on that person. HE might even be more inclined to hear the effectual fervent prayer of a man living under a bridge with no home, car, or 401K than someone in an ivory tower in New Knoxville who thinks they are something they are not. WG

Mr. Garden and I always helped people in need out of our own pockets. Twice we gave away cars; true they were not Lincoln Town Cars but they got from here to there. Our first year of marriage we were in Athens Ohio and ran a twigful of college students. The AFSCME went on strike, which included the trash and cafeteria workers, so no food for the twiggies. We just started cooking more and set up a few more chairs. and then the little pi$$ant interim 7th WC "branch" leader told us to stop because the Word wasn't moving. Nobody with authority gave a rat's nose about anything other than getting the money for those classes. Obviously the "man" of God for that day and time didn't care if they ate or not. Of course, we all had to send in our $$ to HQ at that time. Probably would have just gotten their undies in a bundle had they known about the cars; should have sold them and sent the money you know where. WG

Prayers from WG. And please do get in touch with health care professionals who can help you out.

There is a retired couple in our church who have a huge garden and bring in lots of produce every Sunday morning for those who want it to take home with them. Huge, beautiful bunches of delicious Swiss chard awaited us the last Sunday. Darn it, though, I forgot to get my share. If the economy continues to suck, I want to build up the extra-lousy soil on our little piece of heaven and start feeding people, canning and freezing etc. Waysider is right, there was a lot of benefit to "Manna" except of course for the Swiss chard and the flax seeds they put in the familia. Mr. Garden was a house leader, and happily stored the familia, collected cash from his roommates, and went out and bought stuff like bacon, sausage, eggs, syrup and pancake mix. The rest of us just ate as directed and lined up for our turn in the bathroom (think Kashi Go-Lean Crunch on steroids). WG Only slightly

Thanks! WG

I so admire people like you who have such talent, patience and perseverance. My mom and aunt were both into knitting and I have several hand knit sweaters that will probably last forever that they made, my favorite a false turtleneck with a cable stitch in front made of the nicest purple mohair. WG

It is often taught in regular Christian circles that God will help you renew your mind. I don't have any problem with this as God has helped me with a lot of things TWI said I had to do myself. But TWI taught it was all up to us to line up every thought with the thoughts of Christ as taught by TWI, i.e. in reality the thoughts of VPW or LCM. Then as another poster pointed out you got yelled at all the time to RENEW YOUR MIND. Makes no sense to me any more. People need to follow God not organizations. I am so done with worrying myself to a frazzle over what some socalled "man of God" or whatever, Imperial Grand High Poobah for all I care, says I have to do to win God's pat on the back. I'm not worried about whether my mind is renewed enough, I don't care if people think we don't donate enough time or money or whatever to this or that, I don't care if I never attend another "class"or "Bible study" or anything of the sort. If God doesn't love me for who I am and what I am, it's His problem, not mine. WG

"Brainwashing goes on spin cycle" :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: Well, we were to lay the tithe at the Apostle's feet in order to have the windows of heaven open and pour out a blessing, and who was that apostle after all? That One Man Of God for His Day and Time and Hour? Why, son-of-a-biscuit-eater if it wasn't our very own VPW!!!! So, yeah, there was definitely some spin on that verse. And anyway, the Pharisees in the Gospels were really into titheing because they kept it all themselves. Hmmm, maybe a bit of a parallel there? In retrospect, TWI never helped its own people from the corporate level,even on the local level if you had need to got reproof not assistance. My little church plant may not be all that big and magnificent and impressive, I mean we are just starting out, but we have a big pile of nonperishable goods for our town's food pantry in the lobby. No strings attached. And I personally look forward to the day when we are a big church plant and doing it ourselves. If Jesus was a free gift to all of us, why should we have to pay God for blessings? This is all so senseless. And do they really come right out now and say they are the only ones with access to the Almighty? WG

Do they really think the people who spent themselves silly are going to get out of it and then never overspend themselves silly again? On a personal or a global level? WG