Goey

I kinda doubt it. It is much more than the lawsuits that reduced TWI to little more than an insignificant little wannabe cult. It was an accumulation of lots of things. Division, strife - homo purge, harshness/legalism, M&A, abuse, and moving away from a formula that worked (as far as numbers go). Also, Internet Sites like Waydale and GS played a large role in exposing TWI's "evils".

No, the assets belong to the Corporation. The BOD cannot by law build personal wealth from the assets of a NFP corporation. They dont personally own any of it - however they do control it. If the TWI were to liquidate (dissolve) the the BOD cannot "split the dough". The money would go either to the State or to another NFP corporation. The BOD could not take it an put it in personal accounts - unless they wanted lots of prison time.

It says something about the teaching methods employed but absolutley nothing about the content of what was taught. I would say that Wierwille was an "effective" teacher but not necessarily a good one. It's kinda like the brainwashing of America concerning the evils of cholesterol and saturated fats - and the goodness of hydrogenated vegetable oils and soy. Gain thier trust and present the lies long enough and folks will believe just about anything. Especially since it came from a "Doctor". Very effective.

UH, Interest on 22 million in short term investments (Assuming TWI's financial statement is marginally accurate) would barely make the payroll, insurance and property upkeep. One lawsuit setlement could wipe out most if not all of the interest and God only knows what TWI is spending insurance and attorney fees. So TWI needs ABS pretty badly in order for the BOT to maintain the lifesyles they have been accustomed to over the years - (Manicured lawns, personal servants, Bahama vacations, etc). Without sufficient ABS they would either have to sell property or dip into the 22 million cash principle. My guess is that ABS attrition, and legal expenses have been the main reasons for staffing cuts and property sales. (Anyone know how many are on staff now?) Also, free labor from the Corps is now almost non-existant so staff must be paid to do that now. Consider also that TWI sold both the Indiana Campus and Emporia, yet the total assets remain close to the same - meaning that TWI was hurting financally and needed the cash which could produce income, vs the properties which represented an expense. My guess is that the BOT is feeling some financial pressure as they see some of their little nest egg slipping away. The more lawsuits the better to hack away at TWI's ill-gotten booty. If the ABS continues to decline and the lawsuits continue maybe they will have to dip into the 22 million or maybe even be forced to sell Gunnision (est value 16 million). BTW, as far as I can tell Gunnison is a separate corporate entity and is not reported as an asset in TWIs financials. Who knows - maybe one day Rosie, Donna and and gang might even have to make their own beds or even cook a meal for themselves. But unless something really bad happens these folks and a few others are pretty much set for life - maybe not with servants but set anyway. Last I looked, the Way Credit Union had deposits of about 8.8 million - Gee, I wonder who the main depositors could be? I wonder how much of that is Rosie's or Craig's or Howard's? Here's an interesting tidbit - The Way Credit Union has 1 Part Time & 4 Full Time employees, yet they have not processed a loan in in years. In fact they offer almost no services to their members except retirement accounts - no mortgage loans, auto loans, no debit/credit cards - nothing. I wonder what these people actually do? Also, according to reports filed with the NCUA, The Way Credit Union plans to have a Web Site within the next month or so. It is http://www.thewaycu.org - (Nothing there yet except a few empty directories.) The Way Credit Union's charter# is 66066.

Pat, I have "speculated" on that and maybe some others have too, but I am not aware of any allegations to that effect. Do you know who has made these allegations?

What will probably never change is this "teacher's" arrogance and inability to truly teach God's Word. Run away from this person and never look back.

John, Look at the file size of the various plug-ins. The big ones over (1 mb) are the ones that really slow down the program start up. (Send mail and some others are very small and take very little time to load. On the other hand the multimedia and annotes plug in alre large and time consuming. Why not disable the big one and leave the little one alone? My only reason for bringing anything up at all was to point out that there is almost always a price to pay when you do these kind of hacks to software - something you did not mention (or know) when you first posted on this. Yes, the shift key works. Loads almost instantly but with absolutely no plug-ins.

John, This is incorrect as should be obvious by the failure of auto update function. Best that I can tell - they don't work at all. Ebooks wont work, snapshoot tool wont work, read out loud won't work, send mail won't work and various mulitmedia and internet features won't work. Adobe will not use then as they are needed. This "awesome" tip reduces AR60 to a somewhat featureless and basic PDF reader that loads very fast. But if that's what turns your crank ....

John, When you remove a "plug-in" you are removing at least one or more functions from the Reader. You loose stuff like the abiliity to click on a link within a pdf file, automatic updates, send mail, play audio and video, manipulate and view images, fill out an electronic form, or reflow the text when you resize a window. Your patch disabled or crippled all these functions (and more) because as far as the Reader was concerned the files didn't exist so it couldn't load them. These files just don't load up needlessly. Sure, it loads fast now because 80 percent of its features were disabled. Might as well go back to AR-4. If you want to know what you are crippling or disabling, open the Reader and click on help then "About Adobe Plug-Ins". Each plug-in is explained as well as it's dependencies. With your patch - the list will be short. Put the files back where the were and then look again. You will see what the ones that you removed were doing.

John, Your patch and apparant need for speed loading of AR60 disables much of it's functionality, besides causing the error messages that were noted. To make this hack work without error messages do what Steve! suggested. But now realize that all the functions that you removed will no longer work. All in the name of "speed" to save about 2 seconds of loading time. I suppose this is OK if all you do is read plain jane pdf files. Also there is no need to remove AR 5.0 - both versions can work quite well on the same system if one want to be able to do so. I like to use 5.0 at times because I find the GUI less clunky that 6.0.

Isn't that what the majority of folks do? - Try to explain biblical things in terms that they understand? I see no problem with that. I don't think this was submitted as a scholarly research paper up for peer review. Lighten up for Peete's sake. Sometimes times I'd rather read light-hearted articles like this than the dry, dogmatic verse for verse stuff presented TWI style.

Maybe it sounds strange because you possibly have not been exposed to articles and teachings such as this. Especially if that exposure was mostly limited to TWI stuff. What is is that you find unbiblical?

Steve, I think you are going a bit overboard on "scriptural accuracuy" in regards to what makes a word "biblical." There are numerous terms and phrases used in Christianity that cannot be found in the Bible - King James or otherwise - yet it seems you are wanting folk to only use terms found in the King James version. I think it makes little difference what words or phrase are used - as long as the idea or concept is conveyed. "Gathering together" is translated "assembling" in the RSV. Both terms are "biblical". However as I understand it most of Christianity refers to this event as "the rapture." Same concept - same event. Honestly, it seems to me that since rapture is the most commonly used term for this event, that if you want folks to know what you are talking about, "rapture" would be the most "accurate" way of communicating this concept - for the sake of understanding. What is important is that the correct idea/concept is conveyed - not that a particular English word is used in the name of being "biblical." I dont think it is too reasonable to expect all of Christianity conform to your very strict idea of what is "biblical."

Jeanette, Try hitting your enter key every once in awhile to make paragraphs. One line after another with no spaces between makes things difficult to read. Many people will not even read such posts. Fair Enough - only reading what you wrote - how you wrote it. Fine, but in focusing on the positive one does necessarily have to ignore or gloss over the negatives and abuses. True. But is anyone here at GS trying to CORRECT "everyone"? I dont think so. However, it does appear that YOU have taking it upon yourself to CORRECT us here at GS with your charges of "bitterness" and "anger" and being "unloving". What's up with that? Are you not "pointing a finger" yourself when you make such accusations? Maybe you should takes a little of your own advice - eh? A wise choice I think. The TWI you miss does not exist. But even back then the abuses were rampant, taking place behind closed doors. I left early (82) when I saw the abuses beginning - when leaders began meddling and demanding obescience. But later folks were indeed "forced" to stay with threats like "God won't protect you if you leave" or you will be a Greasespot by midnight" No, no one was physically forced to stay, TWI's method was even more hineous than that. They threatened folks with loss of God's love and protection, loss of family and friends and even loss of life. Ok, So they teach Christ (but him being "absent" in practice) and they teach salvation also (their version of it ....) But then ... they set theselves up as God's only true "Household" and threaten anyone that leaves with the things I mentioned above. This is just the tip of the iceberg .... Go ahead and stand by your statement - but I think an objective look at the scriptures will show that their whole method of operation is ungodly and self-serving if not evil. I don't think that bondage to a corrupt corporation pretending to be God's True Household works for anyone - even if they say and believe that it does. Don't mistake the exposing of TWI's ungodliness and abuses with "judgement" that is reserved for God ( How many time have I heard that one?) Doesn't the scripture say to judge all things? Aren't were warned about false teachers and those who would put us under bondage. To point out such things is not taking on the "judgment" that is reserved for God - it is doing what we are supposed to do. I agree, but in seeing the beauty of the forest, let's not be so naive as to think there no thorns and thistles. Well, I see that you weren't worried with your own words of "reproach and correction" aimed at the "angry", "bitter" and "unloving" folks here at GS. - So I think it only fair that you not be offended by the "insults" that you percive may come your way. (Has anyone insulted you really?) As for me, I am only trying get you to see things from a little more balanced prospective - but if you perceive that as "reproach" or "insult" then sorry - you'll just have to deal with it.Stick around and maybe you can learn a thing or two here. Seems like you have a lot of preconcieved ideas about us. Again, Welcome to Greasespot

Folks who truly beleive in Jesus don't normally rape young girls.

Oldies, why is is so important to you that VPW was saved and going to heaven? Is is possibly that your life mirrors his? Something else maybe? I though it didn't matter to you if even Satan himself taught you "the Word" as long as it blessed your little socks off. I mean it's never been like you have representented yourself as any kind of team player concerned for others. You got your "Word" so what about anyone else - uncluding Wierwille? Last I looked at the Bible, I didn't know know that teaching 'hot bible' to glassy-eyed sycophants got folks saved and to heaven. But I do know that Wierwille repeatedly did some scandalous things to some of God's children and that the Bible says for folk like that "it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea."

Roy, What in the world gave you the silly notion that our "spirit" could have "sex"?

Hi Jeanette, Welcome to GS. I must agree with Oakspear, many if not most of the things that that you presented as "facts" are simply your opinions. To be to the point, your post seems kinda like an excuse for the despicable behavoir of men like Wierwille who used his self-appointed authority as God's spokespersons to sexually exploit those who looked up to them as Men of God. I have heard "the all have sinned" rationalization/excuse so many times that it is almost sickening. Christian leaders should be held to the Biblical standards established for the positions they hold. No one is asking for sinlessness or perfection - just accountability. If they cannot meet those standards then they need to be removed from those positions. You never gave a thought to the the human faults within TWI? --- Well, neither did many of the rest of us, and as a result TWI's leaders were pretty much given free reign to run roughshod over the lives of thousands and break up families and ruin the lives of many good folks. History tells us that religious leaders need to be held accountable - or abuses will abound. Casting the blind eye in the name of love is foolish. What you call "pointing fingers" I call revealing the darkness that permeated TWI's core. - I do it not out of "bitterness" or "of living in the past" but instead out of concern for those who still subject themsleves to TWI current "wolves in sheeps clothing" and who may still be unaware of the despicable things done and taught by men such as Wierwille, Martindale and others. You posted: Jeanette this is kinda frightening to me. Do you have any clue at all what TWI is doing now? I bet not. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but don't expect your little sermon (as well intentioned as it may be) to be too well recieved.

Rascal, Did you support TWI's policy of Mark and Avoid? Did you ever M&A someone? - Participate in bearing false witness againt a brother or sister in Christ? Did you ever bust up a family in the name of the Ministry? - or cover up an abuse situation? I bet not. These are the kind of things I think Dizzydog was refering to. Being angry for TWI lies and deceptions is one thing - Someone being angry at TWI for kicking them out while not admitting their part in doing the same to others (if they did such things)is another.

Recently a very good friend of mine who attended Way College (82?) (not a poster here) told me something very interesting. He told me that one of the now current "principals" of one of the largests TWI offshoots (informally) taught - that it would be possible for believers (women I presume) to have sex with Jesus after the return. Has anyone else ever heard of something like this?

Posted by Dizzydog You noticed that too? Sure there are quite a few folks who were M & A'd unwillingly and might even still still be in TWI today if they had their druthers back then. While they were in TWI, it seems that all was OK until it happend to them. Man that must have been a shocker and hoepfully a wake up call to many of these folks - M&A'ing your brohers and sisters and getting all up in thier faces one day - and then getting it done to you the next? And then and only then becoming a critic of TWI? Hey, it takes what it takes - I am glad they are out. But, in all fairness many of these folks have seen the errors of their ways and have made an honest effort to right their wrongs. Others, I am sure, have not and possibly only see themslves as the victims - human nature I suppose - hopefully someday they will get past the denial, see the big picture and make thier ammends. TWI turned a lot of good folks into insensitive asswipes. After TWI, it is up to us (our duty) to right our past wrongs as best we can.

I doesn't matter to me how kind or gentle TWI becomes or how many apologies they make, or what class they sell this week or next - I would never return. TWI's problems did not start when they became visibly harsh. They were there from the beginning. TWI was founded upon lies and deception and it is only by God's grace that any good came out of it in the first place. Return - Never

A quick review of Jeff's "Recent Posts" will show that the vast majority (if not all) of his posts are shameless plugs for CES and it's teachings. There was one post where he seemed to speak in an offical capacity in CES's behalf in regards to CES's use of someone else's logo. But, I could find no posts of Jeff's that suggest in any way that he is in interested in any kind of meaningful dialog with other posters here at GS.

Bramble, My observation/comment was a general one - not limited to posters here at GS. Furthermore, the usage of the "you are being judgmental" ploy is not limited to non-Christians. Many Christians use it as well. For example, there have been many times where someone points out the dispicable behavoir of certain TWI leaders when another poster will counter that the first is being "judgmental" in doing so. Maybe there should be a thread where we can discuss what "judgmentalism" really is - from both a Christian and a secular viewpoint. What many folks losely call being "judgmental" is sometimes no more than making an observation or stating a fact. It is like when someone takes the view that homosexuality is wrong or unglodly and is immediately met with the charge of being a homophobe.

Abigail, Part of my point here was that many folks here (you possibly) throw around the words judge, judgement, etc whenever there is an idea or precept that disgrees with what they choose to believe or not believe - usually of course - aimed at Christians or Christian precepts. Don't like what someone believes? Simple - just call them judgemental and it makes your side all ok.