Goey

Whenever I watched network news, it was Jennings that I most often watched. His in-depth reporting on other things more than offset his sometimes obvious political bias. He will be missed. Goodbye Mr. Jennings - Job well done.

Do I know a Yummy? No Comment

YOU are on triple letters. I am on doubles. :D-->

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Bliss, Welcome to GS. Most of us have either heard or experienced this belief before. In my opinion it is a fear that comes from years of indoctrination and false teachings. TWI does not have a corner on anything at all, except upon the lives of those that allow them to have it. TWI wants you to think "there is nothing else out there". But, if it is clearly thought through, this myth can be rather easlily be dispelled. "There is nothing else out there" comming from someone raised in TWI is simply a reflection of TWI's indoctrination. However, for clarity we should finish that statement since it is kind of incomplete. 1. There is nothing else out there that can give me the rightly divided word..... Didn't Wierwille teach the keys to us so that we didn't have to have someone tell us what the Bible meant? Why then did folks abandon these good basic keys in the 70's/80's and allow TWI do the so-called research for everyone with no questions asked? Besides there many many places out there that do allow questions and won't punish you for asking them. 2. There is nothing else out there where I can be with like minded believers..... Likemindedness is highly overrated. If it's doctrinal stuff, anyone can find a church or a fellowship where others agree on the major points. But, how important is it for everyone to believe that that there were four crucified with Christ and not 2, or that Peter denied Jesus 6 times instead of 3? -- Trivial stuff that is just that ..... trival. These are just arguing points that do not affect real faith and practice. There are thousands of places out there where you can share friutfull fellowship with others if you can let go of the "way brain" and the "I have all the answers" mindset that most of us inherited from TWI. What you won't find is a whole lot of places like TWI that make you tow the line and swallow stuff hook line and sinker. Stay away from these. Of course many folks became comfortable having an organization like TWI think for them. Tell them what to think and what to do ..... So, it may be a bit uncomfortable at first to be allowed to think and decide for yourself - but ultimately quite rewarding. 3. "There is nothing else out there that can fulfill me." Being truly fulfilled (spiritually) comes from within and from a relationship with God, and should not be dependant upon a church, an organization, or another person. For most, TWI has been more of a hinderance than a help - with it's legalism, closed minedness and stupid doctrines designed to control and make folks dependant upon them. You don't need another place like that. There is freedom in Christ - not bondage. Rest assured that God has not limited himself to The Way International. He is God and HE is everywhere. I wish you and your family well.

Roy, I dont think Peter or Paul went around all the time saying "God Told Me" whenever they were questioned on something.

Roy, Anyone can compile together selected bit and peices of old writings to make Jesus into just about anything they want him to be. But Roy, that "God told me" stuff just doesn't hold any water here. There are too many flakes out there claiming that "God told me" for it to have any meaning to me whatsoever (and I suspect most others that frequent this forum). I have been inactive here for a while, but it seems to me that in the last year or so that you have ventured way beyond any form of Christian theology that I am familiar with. It seems like now that you are kind of making it up as you go. Roy, who is "we" in the above? -- Are you refering to scripture or to "God told me" [in some esoterical manner] as to how "he tells us first"?

Since the canon of scripture was not yet established at the time Revelation was written, it would follow that the warning in revelation referred only to that particular writing. The warning/threat in Revelation does not seem to fit with the rest of what we call scripture. It sticks out like a sore thumb to me and I wonder if the threat itself was not added later by zealots. It seems more like somehting you would expect to find in the Book of Mormon or in the Koran. The question for me is does the Book Of Revelation itself belong in the canon of scripture at all? Luther didn't seem to think so as well as others in the very early church. Goey

How can someone possibly prove that return of Christ - an event that has not yet happened? The passing of time, whether 1 day or or 2000 years proves nothing at all except that it has not yet happened. The return of Christ is a hope that many of us take comfort in. Hope cannot be proved. What do you take comfort in? It seems like you still may be holding on to a TWI like view of God and how he operates or should operate... Like if there is a God then he "must" be only this way or that way (and you set the standard). -- Or God can only exsit if he does things the way I think he ought to, and since things arent the way I think they ought to be God must not exist or else He's not worth worshipping. Not a good approach IMO. Fish, why are you here? Are you here in Doctrinal to recruit agnostics, spew venom, .... on God - or maybe to get some answers? Tell us ....

It's human nature. But some folks seem to be more human than others. It seems that many folks with a strong and rigid belief system (eg. Harry Potter is Evil) are not satistifed with holding that belief for themselves. They seem to be compelled to feed it to or force it upon others. While GS may have a few "angry people who like to shame others" I think it is more the exception than the rule. I wouldn't take the Potter debate here too seriously. I could be wrong, but I doubt that anyone involved is losing any sleep over it.

I have bought electronic components one Ebay. Out of 26 transactions, the worse thing that happened was that one guy took 2 weeks to ship some relays. I nagged him until he finally shipped them. Recently I have begun to sell some surplus hairpeices/toupees on Ebay. The response has been great. All have sold for quite a bit more than I expected and most have been paid for instantly via PayPal. As a buyer you must be very careful and consider the risk of purchasing on Ebay. Use a credit card if possible. Then if something goes wrong you can have the CC company dispute the charges and get your money back. Paypal will usually buckle under pressure. The CC complany has the final say - not Paypal or Ebay. You have little recourse if you use a money order.

So then if Jesus Christ is also "the Word" then it follows that Christ is the ministry. Guess he wasn't absent after all. Now keeds, when you read your Bible just substitute the word 'ministry' whenever you see the words Jesus, Christ, or Jesus Christ. Here's a few examples. Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and [the minstry] shall give thee light. Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as [the ministry] is the head of the church: and he [the ministry]is the saviour of the body. Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church [those that are called] is [are] subject unto [the ministry], so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing. Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of [the ministry]. See, it's pretty simple really.

Does anyone care to try to count and identify the various logical fallacies in the above?

Hi Krys, I hear what you are saying. that oxygen can be transported without hemoblobin. But I will answer that this is only actually proven in a hyperbaric chamber of some sort, where the entire body, or possibly select appendages are placed in a chamber of pure oxygen which is pressureized to two or three atmospheres. In regards to how it works, Dr Elmer Cranton States: A huge difference between HBOT and Penta water is that HBOT uses pressurized pure oxygen. This oxygen is breathed in through the lungs, where it goes directly to the blood and is distributed to other tissues. It could also possibly be absorbed via the skin, but this has not been demonstrated that I am aware of. Penta water on then other hand is consumed orally and goes directly to the stomach. It only really carries a small percentage of oxygen compared to HBOT, none of which is absorbed through the lungs. D.A has freely admited that it does not increase blood oxygen levels. As to your point on the lymph carying oxygen ...it very well may, but this has only been demonstrated only under hyperbaric conditions where pure oxygen is actually breathed and not via drinking oxygenated water. Furthermore, the Penta folks and D.A. have NOT presented a legitimate theory that explains the process of how oxygen can enter the lymphatic system via the drinking of oxygenated water. Goey

Think of how many people in the world would be dead, enslaved or imprisoned if VPW or LCM had actually succeded in getting "Da Word" over the world and in especially in our government like VPW aspired to do. Makes me shudder to even think about it. Imagine a U.S. Congress and Senate with a majority of its members looking to VPW, Craig or Rosie as the spiritual leader of the world? What if Craig called the shots behind the scenes in the CIA or FBI or God forbid - the military? Word over the world? Word over Government? Sure glad it failed. Goey

All these state and regional "leaders" just to overlord what? - about 3,500 - 4,500 folks that are still in TWI? I bet some of these states and regions have less than 20 followers. I counted about 55 or so on the list and these are the real "heavies". That's about one overlord for every 100 mullets. I guess quite a few of these folks have to work a job now - too bad.

Krys, The article on hyperbaric oxygen therapy was informative. From what I can gather this treatment can be very helpful in treating quite a few things. While still not widely accepted in maninstream medicine, there seems to be quite a bit of evidence to show that hyperbaric oxygen therapy can be an effective treatment for things such as heart disase, stroke, wound healing and poisoning (among others). However, the evidence is not merely anecdotal as much of it can be substantiated by the various studies that have been done. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for efficacy of Penta Water, or David Andersons home brewed stuff. The fact that HBOT is an effective therapy for some conditions and illnesses, does not do anything to support the wild claims of the oxygenated water proponents. Through various clinical tests and studies, blood and tissue oxygen levels have been proven to drastically increase with HBOT. The positive effects seem to have been measured in a scientific manner. However, the best that D.A. and the Penta folks can to is to just make their claims and say it works. D.A. goes as far as to bend and twist known science and biology to fit his theories on how the oxy water actually gets into the tissues. Pseudoscience. It would be so simple and relatively easy for the proponents to do some testing and studies of this stuff. Simply have folks drink the water and then measure the oxygen levels of various body fluids and tissues over a period of time to see if the oxygen levels actually increase and to what degree. My question is why won't they do it? Most likely because it only really works in psuedosciece theory and in the minds of the promoters - not in the real world. In other words, Penta Water bunk. :)--> Goey

Whoopty Do! Lets put a feather in Mr Calvin's hat for that. He relentlesly persecutes Servetus and sees to it that he is sentenced to death and then is "against" fire as a means. Well that makes it all better now eh Cynic? Your hero was a murderer - face it. Calvin knew full well what the consequences could be for Servetus. Calvin dogged Servetus relentlessly and went out of his way to have him murdered. His opposition to fire was simply a token protest. He wanted the man dead. What was "rabid" is the way that Calvin doggedly persecuted folks that disagreed with him. Not the kind of man that I would put up on a pedestal.Isn't it funny when the blatant character flaws and despicable acts of peoples heros are brought to light - how they gloss them over with stuff like, "he opposed fire" or "he was only human". Bulldange rationalization from seemingly intelligent people - so they can keep their heros up on that pedestal. Freaking religious nuts.

Calvin was not a tolerant man. In 1553 he had Michael Servetus burned at the stake for "heresy" meaning disagreeing with Calvin. not only was Servetus burned at the stake, they used green wood that bunned slowly so that he would suffer all the more. TWI was a kindergarten cult compared to Calvin's Geneva. Calvin was definitely no angel. Today he would be considered a murderer and a power hungry psycopath. http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/ashes.htm Quotes from Calvin after murdering Servetus: "Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that (they allege) I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face." "Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt." Calvin set himself up on the judgement throne to decide who lives or dies according to his interpertation of scripture. I see Wierwille and Martindale as a mini-Calvins - only with the Trinity issue reversed. Thank God there are civil laws now that prevent the Calvins of the world from murdering folks over scriptural differences.

Mdvalden, Welcome to Greasespot. None of your poll choice seem to apply to an objective evaluation system. They all seem to be all or nothing choices. I evaluate PFAL by both internal and external criteria. And by experiencial criteria as in: Does it deliver as prommised? Sure PFAL has some good stuff in it, but it is hardly unique earth shattering stuff. However, as a basis for a complete theological system, or as a roadmap for life, PFAL fails miserably. Too many major flaws (e.g. "Law of Believing") which by itself is basis for rejecting PFAL as a whole system. Goey

MIke Posted: "Exact words"? ... We can all play that game you know.... Mike, where in any tape, teaching transcript, or book, did Wierwille ever say or write the exact words that, "PFAL is God breathed" or "PFAL is the Word Of God" ??. -- Where? Your request for "exact words" to refute WW's good inductive logic is a very feeble ploy. It won't work here.

Actuially, my gripes are a result of your dogged ignorance, kindergarten logic, and the abrasive manner in which you deal with those who disagree with or challenge your ideas. It appears that you learned your lessons well from master Wierwille. Maybe an OxyEnema would help?

Huh?Where did you go to school? Danger is not the only thing in question. Good studies change my weak "probably not" to a more definitive probably not - or to even a probably yes. Double blind studies are not simply used to determine danger as you attempted to suggest. They also serve to determine (as in this case) whether or not there is any scientifically measurable benefit while removing any researcher bias. I'll dispense with anymore comments on the rest of you dissertation, cause it is quite obvious to me (and should be to anyone else with any education beyond high school) that your understanding of scientific testing processes is quite errant. God forbid that the drug companies would take your advice and abandon testing their products with double blind studies. We would probably all be sick or dead in no time. Hey, I've got this really cool new heart medicine. Cures heart diesase. Proof? Tests? Don't need no stinking tests! Thats the blind leading the blind! Tests are stupid and unnecessary! Trust me it works. I took it and my heat disease is cured ! How do I know? Cause I feel better dangit! No, I don't need to have my heart checked - that's silly! I just know the blockage is gone! Why? Cause I feel better and that's all the proof I need! This stuff is made of special "clusterd alcohol". Alcohol that has been modified by high intensity (104 db) ultrasonic waves at the molecular resonance frequency of ethyl alcohol . When the alcohol is resonated and becomes so modified it has the unique ability to disolve arterial plaque like 409 disolves grease! And hey, you can even make it at yourself at home! Freaking amazing! Of course the medical profession says it won't work! Idiots! Besides, they don't want a cure for heart diesase, cause if there was, they would be out of a job! That just makes my point even stronger! Start with a good stereo (less than .1% total harmonic distortion) and a gallon of Jack Daniel's ....

Posted by David, For the record, my assessment is that it is probably not dangerous, but that it most likely doesn't work - at least not by the process that you have claimed it works. Your process/explanation defies/contradicts known biological processes. David, your claim, as I see it, comes from not from knowledge and reason, but rather from anecdotal evidence and a speculative process backed in to support a preconcieved conclusion/ belief based upon that anecdotal evidence. Your portrayal of good research techniques in the form of double blind studies as the "blind leading the blind" only makes me tend to disbelieve even more. Double blind studies serve to remove the bias of the researcher - something you seem to disapprove of. I wonder why.

Yes, just copy the midi files into your burner software and they will burn onto a CD. But like was seaid earlier midi files are data file and they wont play on a cd or mp3 player. TO do that you must first convert the midi file to a wave or mp3 file. Then you can make a music cd with either one of these. To convert the midi file to a Mp3 - do this. (Asuming Windows XP.) First, open up the Volume Control by double clicking on the little speaker. Click on "options" and then "properties" then "recording". Make sure the boxes are all checked. Then click "ok". The recording controls will now be open. Next, Put the check in the "stereo mix" box. Then close the window. This allows the ouput if the sound card ( midi in this case) to also be the recording "input". Adjust the stereo mix volume about half way. This controls how loud it records and oy may need to be adjusted so leave this open. Now open the Midi file that you want to convert into Media Player - stop it if it is playing. Leave Media Player open. Now open Sound Recorder. Adjust the windows so that the controld on both Media PLayer and Sound Recorder are visible. You may have to reduce the size of the windows to do that. Now click on "record" on SOund recorder the immediately click Play on Media player. If all is set properly the midi file will now be recording. When the midi is done click stop on Sound Recorder. Then click "file" then "save as" then at the very bottom click "Change". Under "format" select MPEG Layer 3 then click "Ok" give a a file name, bit add .mp3 at the end, then under "save as type" select "all files". Then click "save" You have now converted a midi file into an mp3. Easy, eh? Oh and dont forget what folder you save the file into or you may never find it again. BTW, this trick only works for midi files that are less than 60 seconds long because of the limitations of Sound Recorder, but most systems have a recording program that came with the sound card that replace Sound Recorder in the above steps.