CKnapp3

Perhaps the dead in Christ have already risen??? Or perhaps Paul was using pop-psychology of the day to comfort the Thessalonians. After all, he ended that speech with "comfort one another with these words". Tom, make mine a Coors Extra Gold :D-->

Give me Bud or Coors anytime. But if I must have a microbrew of sorts, Pete's Wicked Ales are pretty good.

Jonny, number one, I wasn't addressing YOU personally, I was addressing the FORUM!!!! (but there's the old saying, if the shoe fits...) You want me to chill out?? On one condition Jonny, you acknowledge the eventual salvation of EVERY MAN AND WOMAN that has ever lived. If you are of the popular camp that say man choses Jesus by his own free will, GUESS AGAIN!!!! Jesus himself said you didn't choose him, but rather, HE CHOSE YOU! Question, why would Jesus choose YOU and NOT Hitler? I can't say, but I believe that God through Christ will eventually transform Hilter from an evil tryant to a holy saint, just like he did you and I. You disagree with me? Then what assurance do you have of your OWN salvation? Maybe then there are a few things impossible with God after all. The bible says NOTHING is impossible with God!!!! Therefore shall we say the bible is a lie???? Is it not said that if one part of the bible is lie, it's ALL A LIE????? I made a brash comment about the bible this past summer, much to the chagrin of a few people in the forums. Like Daryl said, he didn't choose to be gay, he was born that way. Are you saying that only the gays that "accept Jesus" are going to paradise? Jonny, did you know that you too are a Christ rejecter??? IT"S TRUE. Let God remove his GRACE, and that's exactly what we ALL will be, nothing but a crowd of CHRIST REJECTERS! Some freedom of will THAT is!!!!!!! Ok, you say homosexuality is wrong? Daryl has the courage to admit to his lifestyle, which is very difficult seeing the astigma that people see gays through. Why don't you tell us what YOUR sins are, Jonny?? Speak for yourself Chuck, you say??? OK, I'll tell you what my particular sin is, gluttony!!!! Also wrong according to the bible. I have a compulsive eating problem, and I have a difficult time dealing with it. I just lust for food you say? Hey, believe me, I wished I could get along on meager amounts of food. With my budget, I could save quite a bit of money that way!!! And I'm paying for it dearly, with being overweight, and it could possibly impair my health. But did I CHOOSE BY MY FREEDOM OF WILL???? NO WAY JOSE!!!! There's this little thing of pain, it's called HUNGER!!!! It's the cause of my choice to eat! Also, I was the only one four children my mother attempted to breast feed. According to my mother, she had nutritionally deficient mother's milk. Therefore she was virtually starving me. Perhaps that's the reason I became a voracious eater, because of the fear of starvation. Believe me, I wished I didn't need food, then I could save money and spend it on something else. Perhaps you don't see gluttony as an abomination the way you see homosexuality, but the bible calls it just as wrong! Ok, now that Daryl told us what his sin is, and I told you what my sin is, now it's YOUR TURN, Jonny!!!!! Be a man and tell us what YOUR sin is!!!

Im afraid Daryl has a valid point. Why is it that we treat homosexuality as if it were the unforgivable sin, while our own sins are less than venial? If you ask me, we are all equally guilty, every damn one of us! If we are quick to condemn Daryl for what he is, then we better be prepared to face our own condemnations. Like Jesus said, "he who is without sin....". As far as I'm concerned, Daryl will be in paradise along with the rest of us, and if you guys don't like it, too damn bad!!!! Get over it!!!!!

I have a firewall from Norton Internet Security which is pretty good. Also I never give out my credit card number to any merchant unless it is encrypted. You can tell if the merchant has an encrypted webpage when you see a padlock icon at the bottom of your web browser (at least this is the case for Internet Explorer). Also encrypted website addresses start with "https" rather than just plain "http". I had an email apparently from Verizon, which is my DSL internet provider, saying that I should respond with my personal information or my account would be cancelled. I forwarded that to the spam department of Verizon, who confirmed that it was a phish attempt. One word of advice, your internet provider will NEVER contact you via e-mail or any other means, requesting personal information. If it appears that they have, report it to your provider at once, usually to the department that enforces terms of service or who handles spam reports. Such people can not only be prosecuted for fraud, but can also face charges of trade-mark infringement if they pretend to be a representative of a certain company. I think it takes a lot of balls for someone to do something stupid as posing as a representative of a legitimate company just to get personal information for criminal purposes. Whenever you do something like phish somenone, your isp number is recorded, regargless of whether its static or changable, and if the person who is the potential victim turns you in, you can be traced rather quickly. It is possible they could be using an anonymous channel however, so this is only a presumption.

_CK you left out GOD~>~>~_ Song, are you saying GOD committed the original sin?

Ok, here's a question: Who committed the Original Sin? Adam and Eve? or Satan?

How long is Elizabeth II going to be The Queen of England? Answer: Forever! Of course Queen Elizabeth will eventually step down off the throne, whether by voluntary abdication or her death. Same with Pope John Paul II. How long is he going to be the pope? Again, FOREVER! Of course his reign as pope ENDS upon his death. Forever doesn't always mean without absolute end as "eternity" apparently does. When a man and woman get married, they commit themselves to each other. How long? FOREVER!!!! But the bonds of matrimony end when one of the spouses dies. So forever doesn't mean for all eternity. "Forever" is often translated from the Greek word "aion", which means "age". Age is not without end, but rather a period of time that has its limits, maybe the limits are not known, but that doesn't mean there are none.

What are you referring to? That Peter said to Jesus that he should not have to be crucified? It's in the scriptures. Furthermore, you don't have to take my word for it. Do your own research if you have doubts about my conclusions. :)-->

Nope, he was talking to Peter :)--> He was responding to something Peter said about Jesus not deserving to be crucified. Jesus told Peter that he savored the things of this world. He also told Peter that He had prayed for him because Satan wanted to sift him out like wheat. The word "Satan" incidently isn't always a proper noun, it can also be a common noun. Jesus wasn't calling Peter "The Satan", but rather he was calling Peter "a satan". He also referred to Judas as "a devil", but not "The Devil". You're right to think that Satan was interferring with Peter though, but Jesus WAS addressing Peter.

Evidently you overlooked what Jesus said, that Satan was a MURDERER from the very beginning. Satan was NEVER Lucifer, Satan was ALWAYS Satan. There is nothing in the Bible that supports a Lucifer became Satan theory. In fact, when all the names of Satan are mentioned in Revelation, there is NOT ONE mention of his ever being Lucifer. He's called The Dragon and The Serpent and The Devil, but NEVER is Satan ever referred to as Lucifer. "Lucifer" means "light bearer". Satan on the other hand has NO LIGHT in him whatsoever, which is why he is the prince of darkness. Furthermore it is written that Satan TRANSFORMS himself into an angel of light. If Satan were actually Lucifer, then there would be NO NEED for such a transformation, for he would already be an angel of light. It is quite possible that Lucifer became a satan, but he didn't become The Satan. Incidenltly it's interesting to note that Jesus called Peter Satan (right after He called him "the rock", can't He make up His mind??? LOL!!! :D--> ). Are we to suppose that Peter is the fallen angel Lucifer?????? Hey, I MYSELF am Satan!!!!! Or that's what Islamic extremists consider me because of my being American :D-->

And VPW, here's the biggest kicker: God is also going to bless those "God rejecting, unbelieving nincompoops!" So pour THAT in your drambuie and drink it! :P--> :D-->

Congrats Robin :)--> I wish you well in your new venture.

well, one thing for certain, you can't get water holier than distilled water :)-->

I think we will all find out that we ALL fell short. So NOW who's going to hell? :D--> But VPW and LCM will be knocked off of their high horses and will find that they are no better than the rest of us :D--> I guess both will be just like the workmen of the vineyard who worked ALL DAY and then complained when those who only worked ONE HOUR got paid EXACTLY THE SAME as them. Both had their great ministries, and both will be shocked when God bestows blessings on us all, even those of us who seemed in the world's eyes not to matter much :)-->

The future is now. Why not exposit this "new" doctrine? Jerry Ok, number one, Lucifer is only menitoned once in the entire bible. In the book of Isaiah. Never in the entire context does it indicate that Lucifer when he fell became the chieftain of the universal forces of evil, commonly called Satan. Jesus, when speaking of Satan, said that he was a MURDERER from the VERY BEGINNING! If the traditional Lucifer became Satan story holds true, then Jesus lied, because he testified that Satan was ALWAYS evil, when in fact he was once a good angel named Lucifer. I believe that Lucifer, which means light bringer, is often called the "morning star" and strangely enough, Adam fits that bill quite nicely. He was made in the image of God, who is light! Now comes a real stumper: Who committed the original sin? Adam? or Satan? Or better yet, who exactly IS Satan? If you buy into this freedom of will thing, then the only Satan that could possibly exist is none other than our own selfish selves. As the saying goes: "You are your OWN worst enemy!" Incidenty that's exactly what the word "satan", which is both a Hebrew and a Greek word, means, simply oppenent, or adversary. The only satan that exist is just our own miserable selves. It is quite possible that the traditional idea that Satan is a separate entity is probably figurative or metaphoric.

ROFLMAO!! I love it! :D--> Chuck, So-o-o whatever happened to Satan's free will? And why would a perfect god create evil? And please spare me the 'God has a reason for everything' explanation, please. That's almost as twisted as the Calvinist version of sadism. "Hey! This evil of your child dying horribly is happening to you because I've got a reason for everything. Now *shut up* and learn!!" ..... "Yessam massah." --> So Garth, tell me, how would you know good without evil to contrast it? Or do you think we should know neither good nor evil? Afterall both are charactersitics of the forbidden tree. That's the only reason God created evil, that we may know good. Can you have light without darkness? Well, yes actually, but without the reality of darkness, we wouldn't appreciate the light. Do you enjoy pleasures Garth??? What's the whole purpose of pleasure? To appease pain, what else! What if you suffered NO pain? Then you would need NO pleasure, and you'd might get a little bored. Maybe I'm now beginning to understand why some people are masochistic. They are so overwhelmed with pleasure that it has become boring to them, so they need a little PAIN to appreciate the pleasures they have. Would you want to have sex with a gorgeous woman if you couldn't get aroused? The pleasure of sex appeases the PAIN of arousal. You like to eat? Food tastes pretty good, doesn't it? But would you want to eat if you didn't suffer the PAIN of hunger? How about a nice COLD DRINK? But hey, if you're NOT THIRSTY, then you wouldn't enjoy the refreshement very well, would you? Now I don't know all of God's plans, therefore I cannot answer why some parents have had the pain of having a child taken away from them at a very young age through a tragic event. But I do believe that the child and parents will be reunited someday, and it will be cause for a great celebration! :)--> Speaking of losing loved ones, my younger brother just passed away back in June. And I did have an emotional time with it as you may have recalled. But I'm also confident that it's not exactly goodbye forever! Just simply saying sayonara :)-->

JM, Is a woman worth getting mixed up in an organization that can possibly cause you potential harm? Kinda like "Come into my parlor, says the spider to the fly". I think a woman worth your trouble would love you just as you are, and not because you are willing to get involved in her beloved organization. If she tries to "encourage" you to get involved in classes, I'd have second thoughts about her. Just MHO.

Actually the Calvinists have twisted the predestination doctrine to make it sound like God is just plain cruel and heartless to some people. I too believe in predestination, but as a universalist I also believe in the ultimate salvation of everyone. True, we will all be tried for what we have done in this life, but I don't believe in a punishment that has no redeeming value. While the annihilation doctrine that TWI taught is closer to God's character than the tradtionalist view that God will subject hopeless sinners to eternal torment, it still demeans and undermines God's ability to save to the utmost everyone. Besides, what's the point to teaching a sinner a lesson only to snuff him out afterwards? The bible teaches that when God administers proper retribution for sin, the judged sinner learns rightetousness. Who learns righteousness at being tortured for all eternity? And why teach someone righteousness only to snuff him out? Time doesn't allow me to go into great detail of what I have learned in the past few years, but I do believe God has a reason for everything, good and evil, that has occurred, and why God created Satan. (incidently this Satan being the former archangel Lucifer is a bunch of traditionalist hooey! Satan was created by God to be evil, but more on that at a future time.)

Sudo probably wouldn't like me too much since my teeth are all but rotten :D--> But I haven't lost enough teeth to warrant dentures yet.

WHAT'S NEW IN EDUCATION? With all due deference to Pres. Bush: In response to the Federal No Child Left Behind Act, students will have to pass the test to be promoted to the next grade level. In the hopes that it will be uniformly adopted by all the states, thus illuminating Texas to a glorious front runner position in education, it will be called: the Federal Arithmetic and Reading Test (FART). All students who cannot pass a FART in the second grade will be retested in grades 3-5 until such a time as they are capable of achieving a FART score of 80%. If a student does not successfully FART by grade 5, that student shall be placed in a separate English program, the Special Means Elective for Learning Language (SMELL). If with this increased SMELL program the student cannot pass the required FART, he or she can graduate to middle school by taking a one-semester course in Comprehensive Reading and Arithmetic Preparation (CRAP). If by age fourteen the student cannot FART, SMELL or CRAP, he or she will earn a promotion in an intensive one-week seminar. This is the Preparatory Reading for Unprepared Nationally Exempted Students (PRUNES). It is the opinion of the Texas Department of Public Instruction that an intensive week of PRUNES will enable any student to FART, SMELL or CRAP. President Bush and Vice President Cheney stated that this revised provision of the student-testing program should help clear the air.

Well relax Dave, I'm in the K's so he'll get to me before he gets to you :D--> Now Howard ALLEN, whoa! :D--> Incidently, since he will judge the WHOLE world, I wonder what alphabet he will use?? :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> LOL!!!!!!

When you get right down to it, we are really no better than VPW, so perhaps we all will be at that different gate. God has concluded we are all guilty and are all in unbelief, so therefore he's going to have to show us all mercy. Otherwise God would be a respecter of persons, which the bible denies. True, there are sins, some worse than others, and therefore merit greater or lesser punishments depending on the gravity. I have no problem with God bestowing mercy on none other than the infamous Adolf Hitler. Now Hitler will have a lot of explaining to do seeing what he did to 6,000,000 Jews. Perhaps his punishment will be to spend some time with the very Jews he murdered, and they will shower him with forgiveness(which they will finally learn of course), perhaps driving him nuts. Maybe he might even acquire a taste for kosher cooking. :D--> Poetic justice you might say :)--> After all, what was Paul's punishment? To become a member of the very society he wanted to wipe out! So it would be fitting for Hitler to become as one of the very Jews he persecuted. As far as murdering Jesus, I guess we all put him on the cross for that matter, yet he forgave those who were murdering him, so the forgiveness is thus extended to us. And his executioners were anything but penitent. When we see VPW being bestowed with forgiveness, maybe we should remember not to act like the older brother of the prodigal son. Or like the workers of the vineyard who worked all day and were resentful that those who only worked an hour were given equal treatment. Now I agree VPW will most likely not inherit the kingdom, but that's his problem. He really wants a crown REAL BAD, doesn't he? (read my sig ;)--> ) I think he already got his reward :D-->

Hi Dave, I would guess paradise would be the logical answer for most everyone else since I believe that only those who did the father's will will actually inherit the kingdom of heaven. But it seems most people equate paradise with heaven, so I understand the logic in that story. :)-->

It just goes to show that the ONLY reason we are going to heaven is because of the grace of God alone. NEVER FORGET THAT! :)--> p.s. I wonder how many points that guy would have gotten for saying "I accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior"? Quarter of a point maybe? :D-->