CKnapp3

Here's one that I should have put on my list. 11. I'm a descendant of Richard Stockton,(on my mother's side) one of the signers of The Declaration of Independence, he was a lawyer from New Jersey. 12. My father was born on Independence Day.

Sunesis, I understand where you are coming from seeing as I have studied the subject of Nephilim myself. Do you believe the Nephilim, if there are any remnants here on earth, will just cease to exist when they die, or will they be awakened for judgement first, then destroyed? But whatever the case is, I still think God is unlimited in His power, and can change the nature of nephilim from one that is evil, into one that is holy and pleasing to Him. I believe NOTHING is impossible with God. Even if the nephilim are destroyed, God can rebuild them into something and give them a new nature to boot. Look what He did, and will do for us :)-->. Granted, we are powerless to rebuild from the ruins, but not God.

Mine is Michael :)-->

8. I was once on the evening news on TV talking to a reporter about a fire that happened a few doors down from me. 7. I'm left handed 6. I have a fascination with oil company logos, especially the ones from the 1950's. I also had a similar facsination with railroad logos as well. That fascination helped me overcome my fear of trains. 5. I have a fascination with the television test pattern. I especially like to see the ones from other countries. With a little imagination, I could probably draw a real cool one. 4. I once knew the morse code. I'm a little rusty now but still remember most of it. I was also once a shortwave radio enthusiaist. I could spend all night tuning up and down the shortwave bands. 3. I once had a fear of drawbridges. I was afraid one would accidently open while we were crossing it, or my dad would run the red light signal. To overcome that fear, I read all about how they work and actually became fascinated with them. 2. I missed being in the 1989 San Francsico earthquake by exactly 2 months. The quake rocked the bay area world series on Oct. 17th. I had left the bay area after a 2 week vacation on Aug. 17th, exactly 2 months prior to the date. On a side note, while I was there my dad and I went to an Oakland A's game and on the way back we were under the Nimitz freeway at the the same time of day that the quake hit. My dad was a little frustrated at the traffic jam. kindava omen? 1. I have never witnessed anyone getting hit by a car, but was a victim of it myself. I lived like a king the following summer I have to admit, the horror of such an event is highly exaggerated (from the victim's point of view), but it's an experience I would not want repeated nonetheless.

An answer to the question begged on this thread: "Who would be stupid enough to join such a group?" See??? I answered a question with a question!

I think I just saw a dog pee on that mighty tree. :D--> :D--> :D-->

Here's one that would really shake them up: "I'd rather go to the ball game!"* * or whatever worldly event you desired, ie. movies, the carnival, etc. Or better yet: "I'd rather stay home and watch television!" (TV is the devil's tool, remember?)

Welcome back Rottie, Well, I find it not uncommon for (former) Way members to get involved in MLM organizations. I was in 2, Amway of course, and another lesser known one, A. L. Williams, which sold life-insurance, and I think is now defunct, the founder, Art Williams I believe now writes books on becoming a millionaire. With me, I found all those ideas complicated and I never really got the ball rolling, so I quit before I could ever really get started. Rottie, I don't know what to tell you about those who are deeply involved in it. They must have some sort of success otherwise they would have not gotten so deeply involved. Heck, the reason I left the Way was because simply it got boring. (the "Athletes of The Spirit" is what did it for me. I never saw such a production so out of touch with reality!) I was never really involved in that cult in the first place, I just attended the meetings, but was still my own person. The basic premise of those MLMs is a lot like TWI, get more recruits. The more, the merrier. TWI really was into numbers, though they were the first to deny it! And with the internet age in full swing, MLM organizations are popping up like mushrooms! Daily I'm propositioned to join some phony organziaton. Hey, you can only fool me once, you can't fool me a second time! Another (in)famous MLM is "stuffing envelopes", another trap that lured many TWI people. Just like the song: "When will they ever learn?...."

A classic example of man thinking with his penis, no doubt :D-->

Hi Sunesis, Well, you and I agree about 99% except for that piece of logic. I have the teaching John Schoenheit (of CES) gave on Genesis Six. So I'm familiar with that study. However I also believe that NOTHING is impossible with God. The question I ask you is that the Nephilim will see NO resurrection whatsoever, not even unto judgement?????? In otherwords, they die once, never to be seen again?? I might be able to accept THAT logic, but John Schoenheit does teach that they are going to be judged. I assume that it is necessary that they should be conscious of this judgement, so a resurrection is in order. But then I could be wrong, they could be judged without their knowing it, so they will just plain die, never to rise again, not even to be made aware of their judgement. Now why would God destroy them in their evil nature, and not rebuild them in a holy and acceptable nature???? Why even judge them if the final outcome is total destruction???? But then again we ARE talking about angels rather than men. But what about the freakish offspring???? They also have a human nature that God wills to save. So what happens? Perhaps their evil side will be destroyed, and anything that is pure will come about in the outcome. One more interesting thing to point out, according to Schoenheit's teaching, there are NO Nephilim left here on earth. I guess that's a load off OUR minds, eh Sunesis :)-->

It is written, "as ALL died in Adam, so shall ALL be made alive in Christ". If Hitler is not going to be made alive in Christ, then in whom did he die? Adam? NO CHANCE! If Hitler died in Adam, then he is going to be made just as alive in Christ as you and I. PERIOD!!! So in order for Hitler not to be made alive in Christ, he would have had to die by some other fashion. Is a life in Christ hell??? Perhaps in the mind of the wicked, it will start out that way, which would of course be his punishment. But as the chaff is burned away, a righteous nature will emerge. Hey, how was YOUR OWN conversion, def??? Was it all peaches and cream????? Then either you were a good little boy (It is written, "There is nobody righteous, NO NOT ONE!), or your appointment with judgement is actually pending. Maybe you won't get the punishemt Hitler is worthy of, but you will have to face judgement just the same. (It is also written, "Whoever does great evil will get many lashes, but he who does very little evil will only get a few") And the sin in your own life will have to be dealt with. Def, number one, almost everyone disregards the context of that verse in Galatians chapter 6. Back to that in a moment. Number two, verse 7 of Galatians, chapt. 6 is poorly worded. Not to mention you misread the verse. (what version of the bible are you using?). It should read: "be not deceived, God is not being mocked, for whatever a man sows, also shall he reap." It doesn't imply that God cannot be mocked, only that he IS (PRESENT TENSE!!!!!) not (the word "being" is missing from that verse and should be there) mocked. The word "is" doesn't imply capabilty, but rather state of being. (Any English scholar should know THAT) While it is true that what goes around comes around, the context was talking about a bible student giving tribute to his teacher. Read the verse proceeding verse 7, and the verse afterward. People thought that a bible student giving tribute to his teacher was in fact mocking God. (And incidently, not to justify VPW, but there was nothing wrong with us giving him tribute also per se, because at the time we thought him to be a teacher of sound doctrine. Only difference is we now know better, seeing VPW was NOT sowing to the spirit, but to his flesh!) The context was advising us that such tribute is acceptable to God and is not a form of mockery. Still think God cannot be mocked????? What the hell do you think IDOLATRY is??????? That is the BASEST form of God mockery. If God cannot cannot be truly mocked, then why does He say he is a JEALOUS God, when it comes to idol worship?????? It's the 4th definition that applies to the context of Galatians, though God could definitely be "mocked" in any of the 4 definitions given. So I'm afraid you're misguided in your understanding of Galatians, chapt. 6. Defendant: "Lord, didn't I confess your name before men in public??" (and really, he did!) Jesus: "Depart from me you worker of iniquity, I never knew you!" The defendant's consequence of course is not getting a crown or any inheritance, he will still however get to live as a citizen in paradise. What point did I miss? Of course people reject God all the time, AND SO DID YOU until you were given the gift of the Holy Spirit! This fact applies to ALL OF US!!!! For starters, God has concluded US ALL in unbelief!!!!! So I guess we will all be punished now :D--> So the only reason you live a righteous life is to gain entry into heaven??? Sounds like you are lacking a heart. Maybe that's what you want YOUR heaven to be like. But what about God's??? People who are truly kind hearted don't need a cheap incentive to do right by their fellow man. They are motivated exclusively by love! This doctrine comes from a dark place????? Hmmm, didn't Jesus warn about calling light darkness, and calling darkness light?? If Jesus would accuse me of calling the beliefs I hold darkness that I'm calling light, then He's got a lot of explaining to do. This casting out people you don't like sounds more like darkness. The Pharisees were champions at that. You say it doesn't sound right???? That's because I think you desire a heaven of your own design, and I think we were all guilty of doing that at one time or another. But that's only human nature to want our enemies removed from our society. Remember, that we are to forsake our human nature and walk spiritually. Jesus said to "love your enemies". Also, if you are an heir to The Kingdom, then you are going to decide the fate of those being judged. Def, answer me this, are you going to judge those before you the way God judged you????? Or are you going to be like the unmerciful debtor in that parable???? What did Jesus and Abel have in common???? Both were MURDERED! Abel,(who is a sinner) says: "Avenge my enemies!" Jesus,(who is sinless) says: "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do!" Who in the hell told you that you are saved by CHANCE??????? It's by GRACE you are saved!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT CHANCE!!!!!!! How many times do I have to say this???? --> Do you take God to play a game of roulette, putting our very lives at risk???? Besides, anyone who plays gambling games to gain riches obviously makes money their god (soverign), instead of being Lord over their money, and anyone who knows about gambling can tell you, the house has the advantage!!!!! Therefore for God to play roulette with our lives at stake would definetly make God bow down to our sovereignty. And Satan, who would be the "house" in this case has definitely the advantage. Some God!!!!!!!! That kind of God isn't even worthy to urinate on, let alone worship!!!! If that's your God, you can have him!!!! And the idea that "tomorrow is too late" is not even biblical, why do people insist otherwise????? In closing let me ask the following question: Is it true NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE with God???? YES???? Then is it impossible for God to change Hitler from a notorious and evil tryant to quite possibly the holiest saint you ever met???? NO you say???? Next question: Why won't God do it then???? Is he a respecter of persons after all??????

I get similar letters, but its usually from a lawyer representing someone from Outer Solobovia (ie.) who was killed with his wife in a car crash. There are no apparent heirs to his forutne, so he hopes to give the money to you.

Well, lemme think: 10. I was once on a local kid's TV show in San Francisco when I was 10 (for those who were in the SF bay area in 1966, it was the Mayor Art show on KRON-TV, Ch. 4.) 9. I once met Bing Crosby when he pulled into the Shell station I was working at. He was apparently on his way to Napa, I think for the Silverado Open Golf tournament there. more to follow....

Actually def, the opposite it true, the damnation of any person disgraces the sacrifice of Christ. And if Christ didn't die for them, maybe he didn't die for you either. Who told you God cannot be mocked?? Of course he can be mocked. But that's not the topic here. As far as judging God in human terms, I think you did just that def. It's man who wants to send his enemies to hell believe it or not, NOT GOD!!!! Def, did you know we are all EQUALLY GUILTY????. Therefore why should YOU be saved, and not Hitler? Hitler killed 6,000,000 Jews. It it weren't for God's grace, YOU might want to kill 100,000,000,000 people, who knows??? Don't take this personally def, I speak for all of us. :)--> If those people are not saved, then why would they bow their knees and confess the Lord Jesus? Are they being FORCED to do it??? HEY, WHAT HAPPENED TO FREE WILL??????? :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D-->

Dave, I checked that website out. It appears Neal Punt's definition of biblical universalism is quite different from what is generally taught in that light. According to Punt, There are few who will be hopelessly damned, but not before the gospel is made crystal clear to them, to which they will willfully reject. I personally find it impossible to believe that anyone can be so stupid as to knowingly and willfully reject a salvation so great. That's like someone in the Sahara Desert dying of thirst, and along comes someone with a nice huge jug of ICE COLD WATER, and the person just plain refuses it. Hey, people who well fed and eat daily don't particularly like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. After all, why eat peanut butter and jelly when you can have a couple of nice juicy hamburgers???? But let that same person go hungry for 3 days, and that peanut butter and jelly sandwich becomes much to be desired!!!!!! So when a person is desparately hungry, he will eat anything that is food. He is not going to continue to the point of starvation when there's food to eat, even if it's base. Therefore, I find a person, who sees his condition as a sinner and God's goodness for what it is quick to forgive, ready to repent. After all, the goodness of God leads to repentenance. Who in their right frame of mind rejects God's goodness when they see it and know it? Incidently, here's a better website that deals with the subject of universal salvation. Tentmaker Ministries After reading more into Neal Punt's website, I find he's not a universalist at all by definition. He is in fact a Calvinist, who put a different spin on the subject of universalism. He has to reject the idea that "every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord", which is one of the main themes of true biblical universalism. For according to Punt, and Def59 for that matter, some will not bow and confess at all.

Def, here's a question for you: If God's will is for ALL men to be saved, and God's will is not going to be fulfilled because of man's alledged free will, then why bother living a Christian life? If God's will IS NOT GOING TO BE FULFILLED, there's clearly no profit to living a life that is holy and pleasing to God, except perhaps to satisfy one's OWN SELFISH MOTIVES.

That is a common question that is asked by those who oppose the universalist beliefs. For one thing Christ was slain BEFORE THE FOUNDATAIONS OF THE WORLD! The manifestiation of it took place 2000 years ago maybe, but in reality it happened perhaps billions of years ago. It's all part of God's plan, he mapped it out that way, including the creation of Satan. I can't answer why God planned it this way, maybe he will tell us someday, but Jesus' destiny to die was forordained long before the fall at Eden. Yes, Christ did command us to live a certain way, but why??? So we can go to heaven??? That's an awful selfish reason to live a righteous life, and therefore you have probably already deviated your mission!!!!!! There are people called to salvation now to carry out the mission of reconciliation. Most Christians have deviated that mission, placing man responsible for his own salvation, when the bible makes it crystal clear man CANNOT SAVE HIMSELF!!!! I wouldn't be surprised if a man died in his sins, so to speak, if only a person would have said a kind word to heal his heart. Instead that same person admonished him that he was in danger of a horribly unimaginable doom and that he was responsible to take action to avert such a fate (usually such responsiblity comes in the form of "giving your life to Jesus") Well that messenger has now got to answer to God as to why he didn't give a kind word to that person, and may even have to answer why he gave an admonishment instead. So you see, the real disciples of Christ are the ones responsible for carrying out the mission that WILL ABSOLUTELY fulfill God's will of ALL MEN BEING SAVED. Furhtermore, what reward should a person get for telling someone that he's doomed and needs to believe in Jesus? He's lucky to get to live in paradise, with NO REWARDS.

And what's wrong with purgatory Def? I think you posted this to address me personally, so now I'm here to answer. Jesus himself said that "no man can come to me except that the father draws him to me". It is in human nature to "reject Jesus". Without the grace of God, we are all nothing but a bunch of Hitlers. It is also written By grace ye are saved, through faith, it is NOT OF YOURSELVES, it its THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST!!!!!" (empahsis mine) It is also written that God will do EVERYTHING according to the counsel of HIS WILL. If anyone is going to "hell", then it was God's will all along, which is the official belief of Calvinism. Then God lied because he falsely testified that he wills all men to be saved, only to send a majority of them to hell instead. Calvinism is partially correct in that salvation is exclusively of God's own doing. Calvinism is wrong to say though that God is arbitrary and will choose to send people to "hell" for all eternity, just for the hell of it. NOBODY has ever rejected Christ by his so-called own free will. Men are nothing but decandent sinners by nature, and without the grace of God he is just plain totally depraved!!!!! We were born in sin!!!!!! We didn't choose to sin, contrary to popular belief. Now this is God's ballgame and plan. If God wills Adolf Hitler to be saved, then HE WILL BE SAVED!!!!! PERIOD!!!!! Will Hitler have to give account for what he did? ABSOLUTELY!!!! You opponents to universalism seem to have the impression that we believe everyone just escapes judgement. NOT SO! But judgement properly administered TEACHES RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!!!!! So God wills all men to be saved, but it just isn't going to happen because men's free will rejects salvation you say. What?? Is God powerless, so weak in fact that man's free will is mightier??? Also who is The Soverign? Man or God???? Or maybe God can save everyone, he just doesn't want to (belief of Calvinism). Then God is not infinite in mercy and love. People that oppose universal salvation are just arguing their own interpretation of the bible anyway. Ok, "Chuck, what do you think you are doing?" At least my interpretation puts God in a positive light, all merciful, all loving, and all powerful, and has made it clear that his will is going to be done! The interpretation of others demeans God, and puts man up as a soverign. I guess if I made myself sovereign like most men have done, I too would think God will only save a few. And if Hitler is not going to be saved, then what assurance do you have that you will be?? Because you "accepted Jesus"? Jesus himself said that "not everyone who calls me Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he WHO DOES MY FATHER'S WILL" And what IS the father's will? If God wills all men to be saved, then your calling is to preach the GOSPEL (which means GOOD NEWS) all of mankind. Most preachers preach admonishments of fate, and such a fate is beyond reality (burn forever in hell????), not to mention fairness. Hey, doesn't the world already oppress you???? Why be like the world? The bible says we should not be conformed to this world, be transformed by the renewing of our minds, that we may PROVE what is acceptable to God. Yet most Christians are conformed to this world, and they are too oblivious too see that fact. If I tell someone his sins have been forgiven, and that he is saved, and he scoffs at me, what makes you people think he's going to listen to you when you threaten unreal fates like burn forever in hell??? But I do agree some people are so damned depraved that this is the only way they can see God's goodness, is to contrast it by the worst thing IMAGINABLE (yes, burn forever in hell is definitely the worst thing IMAGINABLE, but it doesn't make it real however!). But I prefer not to be taught by people who are clearly depraved. Def, you talk about Jesus knowing his sheep. For one thing, I don't think everyone will inherit The Kingdom of Heaven, which is what you are equating living in paradise with. That is incorrect thinking. You can still live in paradise and not inherit The Kingdom. You also probably want to quote verses that talk about people being cast into outer darkness, where's there's weeping and gnashing of teeth. Be it known, that this is a warning TO THE CHURCH, NOT THE WORLD!!!!!! The people in question were those who were appointed to carry out a mission of proclaiming the ministry of reconciliation and instead of performing the tasks that they should have, they deviated from it instead. You people who are looking forward to rewards, take heed, you might come up empty handed. But be of good cheer nonetheless, for you will still get to live in paradise.

Rattlesnake: Come over here, little mouse, I won't eat you. Mouse: Oh no, Mr. Rattler, you will bite me and then eat me. Rattlesnake: Oh, but little mouse, I'm changed, I don't eat mice anymore. Mouse: You serious? Rattlesnake: Sure, come on over little mouse. Mouse: You promise you won't even so much as bite me? Rattlesnake: I promise ::::The little mouse moves over towards the rattlesnake, and then.......... ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ......The rattlesnake strikes the mouse and prepares to eat him.::::::: Mouse: Hey, you promised you wouldn't bite me!!!!! Rattlesnake: But ah little mouse, YOU KNEW WHAT I AM!!!!!! ::::The rattlesnake finishes eating the mouse.::::::

Congrats Jen, nice pic of you too. :)-->

Dave, I know you do have dial-up, are you selecting the 56K version? I've been experimenting the last couple of days with video and audio streaming, thanx for checking the links out everyone.

THIS IS PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!! Prophet The above link is for DSL or higher. If you have 56K or dial-up click the link below. Prophet - dial-up version If you get a prompt as to what program to open file with, select Real Player. You must have Real Player to view either one.

Now you're talking Tom :D-->

Happy birthday Tom! :)--> Thanx for your birthday wish too.

Thanx everyone. I pretty much spent the day to my self, and had me a nice large pizza with the works, I had been dieting the last week or so and I had been feeling extra tired I guess as a result. Well, the dinner perked me back up. Now pushing 5-0