johniam

I know a guy who's with CRF but he like me doesn't have any use for the attitude of "my MOG's better than your's". So he goes to TWI fellowships from time to time without incident. I left TWI 10 plus yrs ago and some of TWI I'll always keep, but some I'll never put up with again, like the "committment beyond your life time" crap. I don't know anybody besides that guy who went back at all.

Do you have kids? Didn't you have to have patience with them. Didn't you have to be flexible. But God isn't as smart as you, right?

What is this: Thelma and Louise, the THREAD?

Reminds me of that SNL show when they showed people in the hospital with coffee in their IVs and the narrator says, "Folgers coffee: thick enough; rich enough to replace human blood!"

God didn't want that kind of law; the people did. People want laws/ rules to control others. We need some/ don't need others. Ultimately it was OK; just gave Christ something else to deliver people from.

We didn't ignore it; there was plenty of love even into the 90s or none of us would have stayed. The purges in 1994 were when love was all but outlawed. From then on it was like that dead song says "they say love your brother, BUT you will catch it when you try".

KJV - and if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. The end of v. 1 says "knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth". Very interesting, indeed. This says to me that there's a point at which love trumps knowledge, and this is what we (TWI included) "ought to know".

Sounds like a cult to me. Isn't this the same country that gave us Dracula?

So you guys are going to boycott all the movies he's done, like Top Gun, A Few good men, Cocktail, Risky business, etc. just because you don't agree with his religious beliefs?

I've said this before. Marriages are like snowflakes and fingerprints: no two alike. If a marriage has a problem so severe that a third party is required, the third party should probably be extended family or the police, not some branch leader or other self appointed counseller. The last twig coordinator we had in TWI was appalled that my wife knew what size tires fit our car and not me. It's bad enough he even thought like that much less making a big deal out of it. So ****ing what if I don't happen to know that fact. What else am I supposed to memorize that I don't have to deal with every day? This is just one example of how absurd the concept of 'cookie cutter marriages' is. Even married people need their space.

My brother and his wife gave us good preparation advice about what shoes to wear, what kind of hat to wear, and of course sunscreen. For that, we used zinc oxide, but all in all no blisters and no sunburn, for which we were thankful. Rascal your dad sounds like a gamer for sure.

Yeah, my brother's wife took tons of pictures and said she'd send us a CD. I'm kind of remedial with all this computer stuff, but hopefully it'll get done.

Sirguess: I didn't feel like you derailed the thread; just added another dimension to it. TWI put their "possession stamp" on meditation, but they did that with other things, too. I've never thought of being able to control a woozy, half awake state; mine come haphazardly, but although it doesn't say that Jesus meditated, it says he got up a great while before day and prayed. Peter's vision is also significant. Even VP called it a "dormant state of mental awareness". That guy in my WOW twig said his meditation was better when he listened to music; he specifically mentioned certain songs on "Takin' it to the streets" by the Doobies. He said taking PFAL helped his meditation, too.

That is truly shocking to me. I listen to a lot of music, and I like my rock to rock, but even before TWI I could not listen to really hard rock for hours on end. That WOULD explain his latter day teaching style, however.

The appeal is no guilt. LCM was always emphasizing this. During Christmas season he railed against people ringing bells outside stores which he felt was designed to make people give money based on guilt. I agree that we shouldn't give money because of guilt, but the way LCM handled that seemed to open other "cans of worms" especially since later he was OK with people giving 15% based on guilt. "You owe it to God!" Ron G. is right that LCM said Jews were no more GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE than the Apachees. John Lynn said the same using the Ewoks instead of the Apachees. This fits the mystery that the body of Christ is of both Jews AND gentiles. Eccl. 5:8 - If thou seest the oppression of the poor and the violent perverting of judgement and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter, for he that is higher than the highest regardeth; and there be higher than they. That doesn't mean not to feel sorrow or compassion, but the same thing could happen to us couldn't it?

I think it's human nature to not back down if you think you're right and feel strongly enough about an issue. Whether you're talking to your kids, siblings, parents, peers, etc. But what fueled it was we have the ministry of reconciliation and we can talk to strangers about religion, which is a no no for many people. So those people we talk to are going to be more likely to feel violated by our witness, which will lead to confrontation and dispute. But truth is always on the offense so you can't just accept that the person is not interested and excuse yourself, you gotta keep disputing, right, because you're standing on the word or something. A lot of us got pulled into that whirlwind.

The last time I had hiked like that was in 1970 in Glacier Park. I was 16 and trucked through those trails like it was nothing, back pack and all. But going down last week my knees gave me hell. At times taking a step was like torture. I just needed to rest longer, but these 25 yr old rangers go up and down the trails every day. Even my brother and his wife can go all the way up the Bright Angel trail (9 1/2 miles) in 4 1/2 hours. Took me 12. It definitely helps to stay out of the sun. The mule trains looked like fun, but the day after we hiked back up, a boulder fell near a mule, which bucked its rider off and over the edge. Just a 12' roll/fall; left him bruised, but OK. I hear there's a club of people over 50 who can go rim to rim (21 miles down and up) in one day. Amazing. Don't know if I'll ever do it again, but I feel like I accomplished something significant, being as old and fat as I am.

Last week I camped in the trailer village. We don't have a trailer, but we got an electric site and a 10'x12' tent. Plenty room for a mini fridge, a stand up oscillating fan, a coffee maker, an alarm clock, and a TV with a vhs player installed. But we DID actually "rough it" at times. My 16 yr old daughter, me, my 61 yr old brother, and his 59 yr old wife hiked down into the canyon, camped there 2 nights, and hiked back up. For me, it was a rite of passage into middle age. For my daughter, it was not hell, but close. For my brother and his wife, it was play time as usual. I'm happy to say I survived, but I'm glad it's over. The canyon is awesome, though. I know that Wayfernot, Zshot, and Valerie52 all live nearby, but has anyone done this?

quote:One afternoon he did talk to us about his eye. His reason for having to have the surgery was based on the lights during the filming of PFAL. He said he needed to have the surgery for some time. The docs wanted him to get it done. He shared how he wrestled with the decision for so long because - - and he didn’t say this, but it was implied - - of being the MOG- - and in the Old Testament, the High Priest couldn’t be sick or crippled in any way, supposedly. Something like that. So he felt like if he had the surgery done, it would effect God’s people (you can roll your eyes now). Anyway, he proceeded to tell us about finding a guy who made fake eyes. He was pretty honest with us about how his vulnerabilities and not wanting the eye to look fake and have people stare at him. He was concerned about the eye falling out, not being able to read, whether he would bump into things, etc. They finally found a guy who was world-renown for his craftsmanship. VP was very impressed with the guy and went on and on about how detailed and perfect this guy’s work was.>>>>> He even passed around one of his “spare” eyes for us to see and handle. This post can be found on page 4 of the 'VP, cancer and Gartmore thread on page 2 of this forum.

quote:My suspicion is that there were times in his life when Wierwille really felt he had something important to offer. I can't imagine that ALL the time he spent in studying and presenting teachings on the Bible was nothing more than a ploy to make himself rich, fat and sexually gratified. EXACTLY!!! Let's see. 1942 - Vesper chimes. 1953 - PFAL. 1961 - Moved to HQ. 1967 - Filmed PFAL. 25 years is a long time to wait for an egg to hatch.

Rascal: There is NOTHING in Galatians about the "fruit of a man of the flesh" or the "fruit of a man of the spirit". It says the works of the flesh are....and the fruit of the spirit is....You like me have both flesh and spirit. It says to walk in the spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. So if you walk in the flesh you shall not fulfill the fruit of the spirit. You walk by the spirit 24/7??? Gosh, you must be JEEZUSS! Why isn't it possible for VPW to be born again of God's spirit and still have sin in his flesh? I see works of the flesh in your posts: hatred, wrath. Is that all of who you are? I think not.

When I was in college I saw a lot of people who were into meditation. Two guys I lived with for a time went to a Bhuddist place in Chicago and they'd be supposed to meditate and the leader would walk among everybody and the guys said he'd know if they weren't focussed and occasionally whack them on the shoulder in a certain spot which would be painful. I never tried it myself. In Dec of '02 I was at a John Hendricks advanced class and he asked everybody one day to sing in tongues for 2 hours during the afternoon. My wife and I sat on beach chairs on the Gulf of Mexico and did it to the tunes of Christmas carols and other familiar songs. I didn't feel "high" but it felt good. I never would have associated this with waking up woozy though. There was a guy in my WOW twig who meditated and sometimes I wondered if he was out of control, but he didn't seem to be harmed by it.

It will.

Thanks Tommy Z. The first time I ever tripped I was told I'd start to get off in 1/2 hour so I put 10 albums on the turntable and got under the covers (I was alone). One of those 10 was Ummagumma. Had to get up and turn down the volume during the loud part of 'Careful with that axe Eugene'. Don't think mom would've bought any explanation. Overall it was a good trip.

Rascal you got just as much flesh as anybody else; is yours perfect?