johniam

quote: you have literally DOZENS of avid supporters here who will drop everything and rush to your side at the slightest sign of discomfort. See what I mean? Like you speak for everybody, Rascal?

Excathedra: I'm really not trying to be cruel or insensitive to you and others by posting this stuff; it's just that...VPW will never appear before a court in this world. That option is not at stake. What IS possible is that at some point in the hereafter...some angel or even God Himself or whoever would handle that stuff, might read GSC posts to VPW and ask him what's up with that. Something like that could be interesting. Plus, you have literally DOZENS of avid supporters here who will drop everything and rush to your side at the slightest sign of discomfort. I don't play that role here. I know I'm in the minority, but sometimes a perspective like mine can be a word fitly spoken. Merry Christmas. I hope you're having a good day.

quote: I think I will let God handle that So will I, but VPs ministry changed my life. No amount of finger pointing will negate that.

Medical examiner: 4-6 weeks to determine cause of Dungy's death December 23, 2005 LUTZ, Fla. (AP) -- A medical examiner's preliminary report Friday confirmed that the 18-year-old son of Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy took his own life, although the cause of death will not be determined for four to six weeks. Dr. Jacqueline Lee released the findings and said there was no evidence of foul play. Lee ordered a toxicology study, and until it is finished the cause and manner of James Dungy's death are listed as pending. His girlfriend found him unresponsive early Thursday, Hillsborough County Sheriff's spokeswoman Debbie Carter said. Carter said evidence at the scene indicated he had killed himself. A sheriff's deputy performed CPR before an ambulance took him to University Community Hospital, where he was pronounced dead. Tony Dungy took the team plane from Indianapolis to Tampa, Fla., where he had coached the Buccaneers from 1996-01. He has taken leave from the team, which is 13-1 and will be coached by assistant Jim Caldwell for Saturday's game at Seattle. My God, it's bad enough that it was an 18 yr old, an apparent suicide, and this close to Christmas, but how's that team supposed to play. Why would an 18 yr old do that? Could someone have murdered him and made it look like a suicide? Poor Tony Dungy.

quote: Back in the early eighties I remember an interim corps girl(11th corps I think) tell me there was a passage in the gospels where Jesus came to a town and the women ministered to him sexually.She never showed me the passage and I did try to find it with my Youngs...I figured it was something someone of her corps busddies had researched. Now I'm not so sure! Maybe it was a line--she was a cute girl. I'm guessing the verse was Luke 8: 2&3 - and certain women which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called magdalene, out of whom went 7 devils, and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance. Ministered sexually???? I always took that to mean that since the Pharisees put people out of the synagogue for believing that Jesus was the Christ, and that meant that those people couldn't buy or sell in the marketplace, that certainly then Jesus himself couldn't buy or sell either, so he needed people who COULD buy and sell to help him out from time to time with perhaps articles of clothing and things like that. THAT'S what ministering to him of their substance meant. Didn't Jesus have to fulfill the law? Didn't the law forbid sex outside of marriage? What do I know? Rascal, I think you've met your match; Diazbro could probably list 100 of my sins.

There are many agendas on GSC. One of the more relentless, dominating agendas is that VP sinned and never repented and therefore his words cannot be trusted as God inspired and also that he couldn't possibly have been a man of God. I abundantly reject this agenda. Along with Oldies, Mike, and some others, I believe VPs words should be judged on their own merit, without this annoying interruption of what his sins were. Three books in the bible are credited to Solomon. One he compiled (Proverbs) and two he wrote (Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon). Yet, he multiplied wives to himself, he multiplied silver and gold to himself, he multiplied horses to himself, he went to Egypt for the purpose of multiplying horses to himself, all of which were forbidden in the law (Deut. 17) plus he worshipped other gods and he oppressed the people. So much so that when the people requested that his son, Rehoboam, go easier on them and were refused, the people seceded from the union and formed their own country. Yet God still included three books in His word written by this guy. Why, we'd a never thought eet. Solomon's writings when he was thinking clearly were allowed to stand on their own merit. By God, no less. PFAL brought the bible down to earth as opposed to in a galaxy far away. Not just for me but for many others. Excathedra, think about those 300 wives and 700 concubines Solomon had for a minute. When they weren't having sex with Solomon, they were stuck doing menial jobs and weren't allowed to mingle with anyone outside the palace. No chance at having a career or a family of their own. Some exway clergy think Solomon may not have eternal life. I don't care either way, but God will take care of Solomon and VP. Some part of you has to know that.

quote: Johniam - I can't think of 50 sins of mine either. It must be because of the health food diet I am on (Everything and anything before the expiration date). Could you help me and maybe start my list for me? Well, if we're going to talk about sin, we may have to first establish what sin is NOT. Sin is NOT... a) boy scouts B) the Osmonds c) Shirley Temple If you have ever had cynical thoughts about any of those 3, then that may be where to start your list. Hope this helps.

quote: Her hands on hips or arms are crossed, head slightly cocked sideways elevating one eye over the other, chin pressed closer to her chest as if to peer over glasses, tight thin line where her mouth used to be and sometimes accompanied by toe-tapping too. When I see THE LOOK --- I know it's time to get outta Dodge!!! Sounds like a storm warning to me.

Rascal: VP said I couldn't sit down and write down 50 of my sins at any given time...but I bet YOU could.

Ooooh, I've hit a nerve. Mstar: Yes, I was referring to a wedding vow. Catcup: Irrelevant to the question. Rascal: Are you aware that Byunga Nyoka Simbi (sp) the one time TWI leader in Zaire has 7 wives? Which 6 should he give up for Jesus? Socks: As for the original question, I don't know who besides LCM bought this doctrine and apparently neither does anyone else. So lets keep counting up peoples' sins again. Gee this is fun. I got 2 so far: selfishness, and implications of such actions, whatever that is. Keep 'em coming.

quote: Her hands on hips or arms are crossed, head slightly cocked sideways elevating one eye over the other, chin pressed closer to her chest as if to peer over glasses, tight thin line where her mouth used to be and sometimes accompanied by toe-tapping too. Since we're talking about non verbal storm warnings, there was a TWI guy in the 80s who got on the Donahue show for non TWI reasons and he said whenever Donahue was about to lower the boom on someone he would always put his microphone right under his chin.

I have a hypothetical question. Other than breaking an agreement, is there a difference, morally, between a guy who has 1 wife and 6 mistresses and a guy who has 7 wives?

Interesting what wickepedia says... The Rock of Ages Festival was an annual meeting for members of The Way International. At this week-long meeting, members camped out in tents or RVs on The Way International's campus at New Knoxville, Ohio. The Rock of Ages featured children's events and fellowship, a daily biblical meeting hosted by the organization's president under the "big top" tent, food and entertainment, and bible studies. Tickets cost approximately 100 USD. The festival was stopped in 1995 for several reasons. One of the most common reasons was that several groups of teenagers were accused of having sexual intercourse throughout the event Campus? 100 bucks? How about... Reasons for Mark and Avoid Debt Disagreement Egotistical behavior Fornication Homosexuality Insubordination Refusal Numbers 3&4 alone would take out most TWI leadership. This is good.

That's okay.

Oh, it's nothing.

Words women do not use: Logical - They don't understand the concept.

quote: the ones who scare me the most. BOO!

quote: Do 'Spin-Off' Participants See Their Groups As Continuations of 'The Ministry'?, or, 'Is Your Splinter God's Plan For Moving the Word? I believe both TWI and the organization I'm currently with are continuations of the body of Christ. Right before Jesus ascended he said to 12 people..."Ye shall be witnesses unto me in Judea and Jerusalem, and unto the uttermost parts of the earth." Now none of those 12 ever made it to the uttermost parts of the earth, so Jesus was addressing them as members of the body of Christ as opposed to mortal beings whose organization would be around for 40 yrs max. But churches are also part of the body of Christ (I'll give them the benefit of the doubt). LCM got so extreme in his loyalty to TWI that he once said that Christians who distribute bibles in Russia or China were doing more harm than good because without the accurate knowledge of the word we had those people wouldn't know what to do with their bibles, or something to that effect. Like the spirit of God is somehow shut down without TWI signing off on it. LOL. As far as TWI or any other Christian group being "God's primary plan to take his word over the world" goes, I'm quite willing to let God decide that and just try to go about my business. We were kinda stupid to buy into that line of thinking. All it did was alienate us from church people.

quote: John, I see that Ahithophel was Bathsheba's grandfather (took a little digging), but I do not see that he knew anything about what had happened prior to Uriah's death. If there's something there, could you point me to it? A little speculation, and maybe Ahithophel did some math, calculating the time between David's marriage to Bathsheba and the birth of Solomon, realizing it was less than nine months. But I don't see anything explicit enough to support "he made sure everybody knew." Raf, sorry for taking so long. Technically, this is circumstantial evidence, but somewhere it says that everything David did pleased the people early on. His "approval rating" was pretty high. But by the time the psalms were written he was "the song of drunkards" a laughing stock. This was largely Ahithophel's doing. That scripture where it says "Mine own familiar friend hath lifted up his heel against me" ...the one about Judas, was originally about Ahithophel. He had been one of David's advisors, but he was instrumental in getting Absalom into power. Lot of similarities between Ahithophel and Judas.

Mstar: He's still that way (good natured lunatic). I see him all the time. He's gonna be a grandad any day. He's a really great teacher. He recently put together a seminar on 1st and 2nd Corinthians. And he's FUNNY! God is he funny. I really like going to his fellowship.

GIGA: I've been going to a CG fellowship for the last 10 months and I've had the same type of experience. I dunno, I just like the atmosphere.

Topoftheworld: Richard Thomas is fine and dandy right here in STL. I see him quite regularly and he's great. He tells stories occasionally. Some of you guys may have gotten chewed out by him, but he says he ate plenty of s*** himself. He told of a time when a bunch of live chickens somehow were loose in the snack shop when VPW was at Emporia and LCM says, "Thomas! Get these F***ing chickens out of here!" or something. But him and Karen (sp) are fine. They have 4 kids, all HS age or older and in the 10 mo that I've been going to that fellowship he and all the others have been really cool to me and my family.

I think 81 ROA theme was 'God's call to love'. I know love was in there somewhere. That time period struck me that the ministry was gaining credibility...that the roaring of the adversary about cult! cult! cult! was losing it's impact. I was a twig coordinator for much of that time. I was not the kind of twig coordinator you could trust your life to, but I could put together a good teaching once in awhile and I served free coffee, so I always had people there. But like I said, I felt like the anti cult witch hunt that was so strong in the late 70s was losing its grip; it felt better to tell people I'm a way believer. As for events, the ones that stand out were Living Victoriously and the 84 Advanced class at Emporia. There were people in my twig who had the AC before me and it felt good to have that nametag finally. One thing now seems significant about LV: the schedule was crazy! Two and a half weeks of teachings morning noon and night. Even during meals Bob Moynihan and Tom Jenkinson got on stage and recapped everything before you could have possibly finished eating. How can one assimilate anything at that pace? At least at the AC they let you have afternoons off. But I would have to categorize that time period as the best of TWI times for me.

I remember one year everybody got small pictures of the BOT and LCM even made fun of them. He said they were Ralph Ds idea and perhaps we could use them to scare the birds off our front lawns.

Venus is the only planet that rotates clockwise. (Since Venus is normally associated with women, what does this tell you!) They're all in the northern hemisphere.