johniam

What exactly are you wearing right now? jeans and a T shirt What is your current problem? it has been raining so I can't wash windows What makes you most happy? my family If you could go back in time and change something would you? no, I'd be afraid to Name something obvious about you: I'm fat What's the name of the song that you're listening to? N/A Any celeb you would marry? naw Name someone with the same birthday as you: this kid whose mom my mom met in the maternity ward I forget his name Do you have a crush on someone? no Ever sang in front of a large audience? yes What do you usually order from Starbucks? their house blend and a muffin Has anyone ever said you looked like a celebrity? Tiny Tim(1971), Jon Lovitz(1987), Tommy Bolin(1973), and Mark Andes(1981) Do you still watch kiddy movies or kiddie TV shows? all the time Do you speak any other languages? I SIT Have you ever ridden in a Hummer limo? no Has anyone you've been really close with passed away? yes Do you ever watch MTV? occasionally What's something that really annoys you? inconsiderate behavior in other people Chapter 1: Nicknames: Jonas, Tubby, Spence Current location: St. Louis Eye color : brown Chapter 2: Do you live with your parents: not in a looong time Do you get along with your parents: no, they're dead Are your parents married/separated/divorced: dead Do you have any siblings: yes, 2 older sisters and 1 brother Chapter 3: Favorites Ice cream flavor: vanilla Season: fall Shampoo/conditioner: N/A (bald) Chapter 4: Do You Sing in the shower: I sing EVERYWHERE write on your hand: no Call people back: sometimes Believe in love: yes Sleep on a certain side of the bed: right side Have any bad habits: a lot Chapter 5: Have You Ever Broken a bone: yes Gotten stitches: yes Taken painkillers: yes Gone SCUBA diving: no Been stung by a bee: yes Thrown up in a restaurant: no, but I threw up on a girl's dress in the gym in 3rd grade during a school play Sworn in front of your parents: mom Had detention: yes Been sent to the principal's office: yes Been called a hoe: no Been called a stank-foot mongoloid elf-tit lookin' sonofabitch? no Chaper 6: Who/What was the last Person to text you? N/A What did it say: N/A Person to call you: my boss Person you hugged: my sweetiekins daughter Person you tackled? my son Phillip Thing you ate: a biscuit Thing you drank: coffee Thing you said: Phillip, come here, this will only take a second

I remember at the end of the 81/82 ministry year they picked one WOW in each region who was "special" and who got pinned at the ROA by VP himself. During the summer I was part of a group of musicians who went to cities with WOWs just to bless them and help them witness for a weekend. One group of WOWs was headed by a guy who made SURE everybody had enough beer. Between us musicians (7 or 8) and the WOWs and their fruit we must've gone through 7 cases over the weekend. The head WOW? He was the guy who got pinned by VP and, I might add, was pretty cool IMO.

He wants to fall before they make him run.

If this guy's a fugitive why can't the FBI seize his assets? quote: laughter causes the spirit of God to leak from their bodies My laughter over this statement might cause SOMETHING to leak from my body...as in...LMAOPIMP.

quote: as for their heads coming off, if they don't it isn't due to lack of effort on the part of SOME +PFALers. So I "deserve" to get hounded? Gee, I thought us +PFALers were the ones who thought that way.

quote: Quick to write off anyone ‘outside their Walls of Zion’…in the REAL WORLD, this would be deemed ‘Immature and thoughtless'. This is all relative. I grew up a liberal on a street full of fundamentalists. I never heard of anybody going to hell for skipping Sunday school until I heard it from the fundamentalist kids. My mom calmly said that's what they are taught to believe; you don't have to believe that. So by your definition, the "real world" is the majority. I was in this liberal "cult" and everybody else on my street were the "real world". Eventually I mixed with people who weren't fundamentalists and it was all moot. I think you have to be flexible. Sure, you can't just expect people outside TWI to just listen to you and not give their input; you have to be discreet, wise. TWI may have discouraged this in later years, but it's not like you ever needed TWI to figure stuff like that out for you.

So the -PFALers are the chickens in a coop? Do their heads ever come off?

Oakspear: I think it would be refreshing if you would rationally defend your atheist position. You believe there is no God. That there is no intelligent design behind the so called creation. The human body is not man made, yet it generally lasts much longer than anything that IS man made. The sun is 93 million miles from earth. If it was 88 million miles from earth we'd all burn up. If it was 98 million miles from earth, we'd all freeze. But it just HAPPENS to be 93 million miles from earth and helps to sustain life here. C'mon. Rationally argue with me about why you believe there is no God who intelligently designed all this stuff.

WW: Paul "reasoned with them out of the scriptures". That's what PFAL does. Paul didn't have to rationally argue with anybody about whether or not the scriptures were the word of God; both parties agreed that the scriptures were the standard for truth. That is not the case here. Oh, and of course there's no way God was working in those peoples' hearts while Paul was speaking to them, right? That never happens does it?

Tom: The quote presumes that I am obligated to "rationally argue" (defend) what I believe to be spiritual truth. I'm not. He never defends his atheism; why should I defend PFAL?

I haven't read it, but didn't Jesus say of Judas that it would have been better if he had never been born? Oops.

quote: Johniam, I'm not a grateful dead fan, so what do they have to do with tie dyed tee shirts? Many Grateful Dead T shirts have a lot of tie dye in them. Just after Jerry G died there was a movie called "Tie Dyed" all about the group's fans. quote: Joniam - how refreshing to know a man who knows Believe me, I need all the help I can get.

quote: It would be refreshing to see PFAL fans rationally argue for what they believe is correct in PFAL rather than letting themselves get run off or shut down by opposing opinions. We are witnesses, not defense attorneys. Truth needs no defense. Run off or shot down??? Somebody's stoned.

Never had the book, but in '85 or so someone from TWI did color analysis and grouped everybody by season. I'm a winter. Bergundy is/was my best color; orange is the color I'm to avoid. Still have my color packet. Funny this should come up. One of my window cleaning accounts is a T shirt place. I come up there and lo and behold they have tie dyed T shirts on sale for $10.00 each. Turns out that somebody ordered a bunch of tie dye and then cancelled the order. Even though I like the Grateful Dead I had never bought a tie dyed shirt until now. It's blue, green, and yellow. I just liked the color scheme. AND...I actually got compliments for it. I do NOT get compliments for clothes. What's funny to me is that the color analysis I got from TWI just did individual colors and whether they blended with skin tones; nothing about multiple colors. I dunno.

quote: But I can't help but wonder why some feel the need to continue to hound those who hold on to some or all of PFAL. Why the driving need to try to "force them" to reject all of it. It seems to work for them - there was a time when it worked for us, at least to some degree. Thoughts anyone? I think this can happen for any of several reasons. 1) Someone posts an opinion, which is interpretted as an "attack". I've had this done to me and I've done it to others. a) Because the poster interpretting it as an attack just feels strongly enough about the topic. b) Because the poster interpretting it as an attack has "copped an attitude" about the poster giving the opinion. Example: Poster #1 - My, what a beautiful sunny day. Poster #2 - Oh YEAH! You're of the DEVIL! 2) Sometimes there is a strong groupthink pressure which underscores the discussion. Not a conspiratorial groupthink, rather an emotional lure. We read enough posts and choose a position and, just like if you watch a good TV show enough times you begin to root for certain characters and whatever their opinions are on the show. Hence, you get emotionally lured into an 'us against them' attitude. Not really a bad thing, just people being people. OK that's 2, not several.

quote:i mean...how deep are we already? is there even a bottom to us? if so, what do we call this? and if not, what do we call this? Eccl 3:11 - He hath made everything beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end. So from our perspective, there is a bottom. No matter how deeply we may search, there will be a place(s) where we see "this page cannot be displayed", so to speak, but there is no limit to what we can search. We can always search with reasonable expectation of learning SOMETHING.

Now I'm drawing a parallel between LCM and Nebuchadnezzar. Neb was powerful and an egomaniac. Built that big thingamabob and commanded everybody to worship it under penalty of death. Then he was like a beast and had to live like an animal and eat plants for a year and THEN he got his mind right. LCM has been "eating the grass" of a minimum wage job for 5 1/2 years now. Must not have his mind right yet.

quote: because I had a parakeet and hamster in my room... Well THERE you GO! ANYBODY knows that real SPIRITUAL people have gerbils and ferrets. What did you expect?

I never have, but prayer is so personal. I like to pray just before going to sleep. If you feel comfortable praying while kneeling, you should do it.

Yes, they did. Too bad it's laced with legalism. Speaking of movies, remember in "Sudden Impact" when that diner is about to be robbed and the lady behind the counter puts an UNGODLY amount of suger in Inspector Callahan's coffee so he spits it out? Which leads to him thwarting the robbery attempt and the classic line, "Go ahead, make my day." Well, the coffee is TWI and the sugar is the legalism. Yeah, I'll spit that out any time. But, yeah, read Romans 10:9, believe it, you're born again, you have holy spirit, you can ask God about anything you want and He won't always answer you but He will show you stuff according to your desire. Back in the old days they'd talk up signs miracles and wonders as though if you didn't see them you must not be believing, but just what constitutes a sign miracle or wonder? If you have joy in your heart living in this world that's got to be a wonder, at least. You don't have to part the Red sea every other day to be a true believer do you? Maybe some of you can't see how the unbelievers are led around by the nose by the god of this world but I can and I'm glad it's them and not me. Yes, I think TWI promoted a realistic relationship with God. In fact, they did it so well that many of us don't need them anymore.

Garth: Why the double standard? How come it's OK for atheists to make fun of Christians, but not for Christians to make fun of atheists? Yeah, superior. I'm smart, they're dumb. I know the truth, they're fools. That's my position and I'm not ashamed of it. They feel the same way about me. What is the problem?

I go to a CG fellowship. Never met Geer. The leaders of this fellowship are not mean and the "limited foreknowledge" thing has not been presented openly. These people do not put pressure on you the way TWI did/does.

How nice! A religious zealot tries to hijack your son in the name of truth. As a parent, I'd be tempted to go beat his a**! If THAT is the charity way to handle such situations I'd find me a different church. My family went to a Presbyterian church after TWI. They believed and taught the trinity. We just didn't bring it up. Neither did they other than occasionally during a sermon. We got along fine. I worked in a warehouse for awhile and sat at a table in the break room that other Christians sat at. I made up my mind to not comment on both abortion and the trinity. Sometimes the subject of abortion came up. The trinity NEVER came up. I got along fine. Hopefully, this was God showing you what kind of atmosphere was in that church NOW before something worse happened later.

I would not have the nerve to talk to people here face to face the way I post. I am extremely vain. Remember that cliche where someone asks, "Do you think I just like to hear myself talk?" Yes, I actually like to hear myself talk. And the next best thing is to post something, and read it over again. Socks alluded to it (the "sound" of my written voice). quote: I'm not talking about more for the moderators to do, but "allies" in different arguments keeping each other calm. For example, if I am getting nasty on an agnostic or atheist thread, George Aar or Sudo might be the one to help point out that I am getting out of line, since I know that we have similar opinions. I agree. Allies are a good thing. Iron sharpeneth iron. When I post bluntly, things I wouldn't say to someone face to face, it's not because I enjoy hurting people or enjoy being a jerk, it's because there are many situations in adult life where you have to bite your tongue for one reason or another. TWI weren't the only ones that made us do that. So having a forum where I don't have to bite my tongue as much is a temptation/opportunity. I think I've learned more about myself on GSC than anything else.

quote: 10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. Not outraged, superior! 9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. Not insulted or dehumanized, superior! 8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. 7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! 6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. This one I agree with. 5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. Scientifically established? That's funnier than God breathed. There is not one scientist who could walk into a classroom and accurately guess the ages of all the students, but I'm supposed to believe the earth is millions of years old? Nice try. 4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." 3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. 2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. Oh, NOW these people know what percent of prayers are answered by the average Christian? Don't tell me...it's "scientifically established"? 1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian. Who needs to know their gossip about those things when you know GOD? Well, now it's 1 out of 10 so I'm "L".