johniam

Joe Fair sings it.

quote: just don't have Bill on staff, and have the secret service follow him about, to keep him from giving her a reason to hit the red button.. So her unstable tendencies are Bill's fault? What else would she possibly blame stuff on? Personally I think they feed off each other. quote: As to Hillary.....I for one would like to discuss a woman in the White House without always returning to her. Yeah, but Hillary actually has a shot at it. No woman before her has. Edith Wilson functioned as pres during her husband's last year or so (any communication to or from him was through her) and THAT'S when women got the right to vote . But any talk of a woman president without a real life candidate is basically theology. She actually might win.

quote: .........I actually think that we were doing just fine here without you returning to stir the pot again John, which I think you meant to do all along anyway. quote: Jean, don`t tell me what to do, or whom to address Anybody else see some inconsistency here? Rascal, don't tell ME what to do or what not to do.

quote: Why do you think the thread died? Ain't dead! Just off for the weekend. Consider that my controversial post was done last Monday, and there hadn't been any previous posts for 2 days, and that post was on page 4. Perhaps this topic is off limits on weekends for some reason. Just for the record, I didn't intend that post to start a gender war, I intended it to "throw a curve" in the discussion. You women HAVE access to a lot of the same authority as men. I don't want to take that away from you (as if I could), I just speculated that possibly if a woman makes the committment and sacrifice required to be a full time "career woman" that then she could risk losing her affectiveness as a guardian of the home, but I never said it was automatic. I think some of you may have responded to that post by assuming that..."he thinks a woman's place is exclusively in the home! TO ARMS, LADIES; WE'RE UNDER ATTACK!!!" (sirens blaring) Like I said, by now too much time has passed. Women have proven that they can handle a lot of the authority that was once traditionally assigned to men. As far as Hillary goes, the idea of her being president scares me; not just cause she's a woman. She spoke at the 1996 democratic convention and said she was proud that her husband was the first president who ever said that a man should never hit a woman. Then 2 plus years later she hit her husband with a cell phone knowing that he had to go on TV an hour later. I don't want someone with that kind of temperment to have access to the launch codes, if you know what I mean. This all now reminds me of something. During the 80s there was a SNS tape with LCM as the teacher. This is a segment of it as close as I can recall..."If you're a woman and you CAN'T be the guardian of the home, I don't care if you can run every corporation there is! You're a MORON!" Like me, he questioned whether women could be both guardian of the home AND have a serious career, but unlike me, he didn't allow the possibility that they could, or should be allowed to choose their own path. So I guess I can understand some of you women who were around in the 80s being a little trigger happy in this matter.

Slow down so the zebra passes you, then get behind the fire truck.

Hi, again, John and I are planning a trip to Washington D.C. this year and in preparation for that I have been reading some biographies of the Presidents and First Ladies. If you ever want to read about a collection of extraordinary women, you should read about some of those early First Ladies. They were certainly the intellectual and patriotic equals of their husbands. Very interesting reading. Jeaniam

Hi,again, John and I went to a marriage seminar in Nashville, TN a week ago, and one of the points one of hte teachers made was that in the Bible (or at least in the church epistles) women are regarded as the equals of men in all catagories except possibly in the area of physical strength. I agree with Chatty Kathy that for a woman to go after a job she is not suited for just to prove a point hurts us more than helps us. Jeaniam

Hi, Ladies, Thank you for the wave. I am reading for myself, and I appologize for my part in the derailment. As far as the biblical side of this discussion, the Bible tells women to be in subjection to her own husband, not necessarily every man walking down the street. If that were the case women would end up being raped even more often then they already are (which is already too much). I am glad to see that you are being rational about this (i.e. being willing to concede that there are jobs that at least some women are not physically prepared for). I have read many articles about women who are resented for wanting equal status when they are not physically capable of doing equal work. The example that leaps to mind is in the military. Most women aren't capable of lifting a fifty pound backpack onto their backs and then going for a fifty mile hike. I think women are certainly the intellectual equals of men, but the idea of a woman president is a little hard for me to get my mind around. I watched most of the episodes of that show ' Commander in Chief" (I may have gotten the name wrong), and found the portrayal of a man in the role of 'First Gentleman" a little nauseating My twi background may be showing here. Jeaniam

Just ONCE I'd like to see MLB do an experiment. They could have Talking Heads lead singer David Byrne in the booth as an analyst. He wouldn't talk about the intricacies (sp) of the game, he'd make philosophical comments on top of what the play by play guy would say. For example... Broadcaster: Here's the pitch; SWING and a miss. Manny Ramirez whiffs at a breaking ball. He's coming off a super season... Byrne: How did I GET this .300 average? Broadcaster: Next pitch; outside, ball 3. Byrne: How did I GET these 50 home runs? Broadcaster: Pitcher steps off the mound... Byrne: SAME AS IT EVER WAS... Broadcaster: ...grabs the rosen ba.. Byrne: SAME AS IT EVER WAS... That'd be cool! Hmm, don't know how that happened.

Just ONCE I'd like to see MLB do an experiment. They could have Talking Heads lead singer David Byrne in the booth as an analyst. He wouldn't talk about the intricacies (sp) of the game, he'd make philosophical comments on top of what the play by play guy would say. For example... Broadcaster: Here's the pitch; SWING and a miss. Manny Ramirez whiffs at a breaking ball. He's coming off a super season... Byrne: How did I GET this .300 average? Broadcaster: Next pitch; outside, ball 3. Byrne: How did I GET these 50 home runs? Broadcaster: Pitcher steps off the mound... Byrne: SAME AS IT EVER WAS... Broadcaster: ...grabs the rosen ba.. Byrne: SAME AS IT EVER WAS... That'd be cool!

Just ONCE I'd like to see MLB do an experiment. They could have Talking Heads lead singer David Byrne in the booth as an analyst. He wouldn't talk about the intricacies (sp) of the game, he'd make philosophical comments on top of what the play by play guy would say. For example... Broadcaster: Here's the pitch; SWING and a miss. Manny Ramirez whiffs at a breaking ball. He's coming off a super season... Byrne: How did I GET this .300 average? Broadcaster: Next pitch; outside, ball 3. Byrne: How did I GET these 50 home runs? Broadcaster: Pitcher steps off the mound... Byrne: SAME AS IT EVER WAS... Broadcaster: ...grabs the rosen ba.. Byrne: SAME AS IT EVER WAS... That'd be cool!

Rascal: For some reason I thought you lived in Chicago area. Back to your southern belle roots, eh?

By the way, I want to thank you guys for the way you treated my wife. It was a big step for her to post here and you all made her feel welcome. Thanx much.

My wife and I recently attended a couple's advance in Nashville. Over 40 couples for the weekend. Our 18 years was in the lower percentile. Most couples were 20 plus years and one couple was 37 yrs. Not a lot about sex, mostly what does the word say. I think there are 3 basic reasons why people get married: sex, kids, and companionship. Being in love fluctuates. I still love my wife, but the euphoric types of feelings of falling in love don't feel the same as when we were courting and first married. Sex and kids fluctuate as well. The sex needs of a 20 yr old are different than of a 50 yr old. Same with being parents of an infant compared to being parents of a teen. But the companionship NEVER has to fluctuate. One thing that led to getting married was that I just like being around my wife even if we weren't talking or doing any activity. I just felt right in her presence. Same today.

quote: I work in IT. It isn't fair in my field. I remember fixing a guys code knowing he made 15 dollars an hour more than I did. Now don't get me wromg I madea nice wage, but he made a good deal more and here I was correcting his work. When I asked him why he wrote the code the way he had he responded that he was a programmer not a business analyst and since it wasn't written in the spec he wasn't going to go the extra mile to have the code right. I remarked that we are programmer analysts and its our job to think. Not long after this event I was up for a promotion. I got pregnant so they gave it to a less qualified man. I guess a child made me unable to do the job. Interesting. The classic male dominated workplace image in my mind is the movie '9 to 5'. Some of what you describe reminds me of parts of that movie. There was definitely a need for reform to begin. When I worked at Burger King in the 80s one time there was, in the store I worked at, 1 store mgr and 7 asst mgrs, including myself. Five of those 7 were black women and there were a lot of 18 yr old girl asst mgrs throughout the district. But I don't recall that there were ANY black store mgrs of either gender. Plus, one very qualified woman who'd worked as an asst mgr for years was never promoted to store mgr solely because she had kids. The jump in pay from the highest ranking asst mgr to store mgr was quite substantial. The district mgr who later became director of operations in that system was ethically challenged. As a store mgr he would routinely borrow large quantities of food from other stores in his district a day or 2 before the cutoff date on the P&L statements, then deny ever borrowing the food just so his store's food cost numbers would look better than the store he borrowed the food from. That kind of crap got him promoted to district mgr. Then one time he actually paid for a store mgr who got pregnant to have an abortion, that is, if she wanted to keep her job. Remember, store mgrs shouldn't have kids. Can't sell their souls to BK if they got kids, I guess. I'm guessing that guy isn't the only one who is willing to do stuff like that and people like him can make a big difference at the work place in a bad way. If what you say is true, then there is still need for reform at higher paying levels.

[quote name='rascal' date='Mar 20 2007, 08:32 PM' post='315306 John, I don`t know why you have your nose into my marriage, but since it obviously interests you so...of COURSE my spouse knows what I say here. He has been traveling this road with me for 20 years for heavens sakes...lol He looks in here when he cares to, most of the time he trusts me to relate things honestly where and when appropriate. If I am talking about it here, generally we are living it, usually learning and overcoming lifes challenges together and moving on...shrug Well, while I don't usually attempt to speak for him, possibly his comments about your marriage were in response to your statement that he should be embarrassed or ashamed to have me read what he says on Greasespot. I don't think he has any unusual amount of interest in your marriage. I, like your husband, look in here when I care to (which isn't often), most of the time I trust John to relate things honestly, where and when appropriate. And in response to an incident involving you where a male did something out of line that only made the situation worse, not better (I'm not aware of the details, nor do I need to be), John and I were once in a situation involving one of our children where a women saw fit to abuse her authority, and did precisely the opposite of what was needed and helpful under the guise of being on my son's side. My point is that women are equally as prone to ego trips and head games as men have frequently been guilty of. Thanks for listening, Jeaniam

Well, Rascal, he does treat me and our daughter well with kindness and respect. I have never heard him seriously advocate smacking a woman for any reason. I consider the fact that none of the women who claim to have been sexually abused by Dr. Wierwille did so while he was still alive to be worthy of note to say the least. I'm not sure he has any thing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about. When you say that your marriage was under less pressure while you subjected yourselves to twi rules, does that translate to your marriage worked better and your personalities were less important while the two of you were still renewing your minds to the Word? Maybe you should learn a thing or two. Jeaniam

quote: I am truly glad that she posted, I have honestly wondered through the years if she was ok, given some of your comments. I hope that she comes back, she might even learn a thing or two. OK, fine. By the way, does your husband know what you say about him? Like, for instance... quote: I lived it too. It was difficult to hold it together under twi conditions. Our personalities, our likes and dislikes, didn`t matter so much when twi rules were what we subjected ourselves to. Once out, it made a huge difference. He was practical, frugal, and a health nut, I was an animal lover/rescuer, junk food junkie. He was a drinker, I was a tea totaller... I never lived up to his standards of what was important, he never allowed me to be who I really was....shrug It has been heartbreakingly difficult through the years to find a middle ground that both can live with....sigh you are always left wondering what might have been had you married a more compatible person, rather than the one that was acceptible according to the twi criteria. I think that we both would have made excellent spouses ...to other people. Yeah, Rascal, you show your husband that stuff and then you can point your finger at me. One more thing. quote: Are you embarrassed that your wife knows what you think here? Does it bother you that she read how you treat others? No, because my wife already knows what I think here there and everywhere. She wouldn't be a good help meet if she didn't know what to help, would she? Freeatlast: I understand what you're saying about no derail; this is an example of 2 things: 1) Rascal is a bully, and 2) I am willing to go to extremes to protect myself from abuse even if the abuser is a woman. ChattyKathy: Just because someone has a full plate doesn't mean they have the right to misrepresent people as aggressively as she does. I think she fits that sociopathic definition, especially " Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others." She has always struck me as a desperate individual and I even posted to her once that her posts came across to me as a cry for help. But I have to defend myself from her. My wife wants to respond to her now, too.

FAL: It wasn't an official TWI function. Just individual believers jazzing up their particular situation. If stuff like this was regularly scheduled and lots of believers were involved, then it might be more than a blip on the screen, but our attitude was...we're not under law, just don't regard the creation more than the Creator.

After giving it some thought, I'd like to address this... quote: I'm only a woman after all. Nowhere did I say or imply that women are inferior to men and I don't think the bible teaches it. quote: Well, then I shall simply extend my hand in greeting and say hello, John. I've never met an true misogynist before--at least none with guts enough to admit it. quote: You could never have any respect for someone like me, and to simply argue and rant at each other does nothing but eat up Paw's bandwidth. I can respect anyone's view if it has substance. I did not even say that women should not have access to the authority they do today. We just might have a woman as our next president. I won't vote for her but I won't expatriate if she does win. When I read quotes like the above, I can't help but conclude that you were on emotional autopilot at least at the time you were posting. quote: Women perform 2/3 of the world's work Now THAT, I dispute. I recently read that men do 90% of overtime work in the US. All those world stats are irrelevant to me. I don't live in a third world country and I am not subject to their culture; the things I have issues with are germain to THIS culture.

By the way, I did NOT ask her to post. I related the tenor of the thread and she said she wanted to reply. At the last moment she asked me if she should do it or not. I said I thought some posters may want to tell her what I had posted in the past and Rascal fulfilled that prophecy, but that sure go ahead. I didn't even read what she posted until just now. Most of the people I have gone to fellowship with generally disapprove of GSC. Too much bitterness, etc. My wife is OK with my involvement here as long as I don't talk her ear off about it, but I'm glad she posted and if she wants to get her own username and post more, I'm all for it. As for what Rascal said, I'm willing to go to extremes to protect myself from abuse, even if the abuser is a woman, but I've never said that men have any right to abuse women. I admit that sometimes I've been overly zealous in my criticism of those who disagree with me, but IMO Rascal is a bully and plays the victim/sociopath card like it's going out of style.

Hi, Ladies and Gentlemen; This is johniam's wife. I think you all have misunderstood what the point John was trying to make. What he (and I) objeact to is this overwhelming attempt by the media, entertainment world, etc. to portray women as not only equal to men (which they certainly are) but as morally superior, wiser, kinder, gentler, etc., while men are these big dumb brutes, barely one step removed from an ape, who routinely think with their penises, and can't be trusted as far as you can throw them. I assure you that John does not regard women as "uppity skirts", but treats them with tremendous respect, and is well aware that women are his intellectual equals (and certainly I am), but there have been many times in our marriage where he has had to fulfill his biblically given role as tie breaker, and I have never found him to be other than fair at those moments. I am sorry for those of you whose experiences clearly show that you were married to bullies who failed to keep the other half of that scripture to love their wives as their own bodies, but were only focussed on the part about wives being in subjection to their own husbands. I assure you that John is well aware that that is a two-way street. Jeaniam

Out there: Twice I was at a party with a strip'o'gram. Both in STL in the 80s. A girl wearing only a G string danced very close to the soon to be groom. There were 2 bouncers on hand with a boom box and contemporary music with a beat. Cost was $50.00 plus gratuities were expected. I went to one bachelor party in GR for Hal B**l*y. Lot of the guys were there. Someone had fused the movie 'Bachelor Party' with a porno movie. There was a scene in the movie BP where the guys are already at the hotel suite trying to watch porno that the girls had edited. At THAT point the porno movie kicked in. Jack H*lw*rd* and Mike P*cc*r*ll* were especially vocal during graphic scenes. It was a fun time. Lucky? I've never thought of STL being a "sin city" even compared to GR, but recently the paper had an article about restaurants that feature belly dancing during prime time. Some of those in attendance objected to the porn but I don't recall any top local leadership having to be involved.

Being a smart a**. By the way, I've been married 18 1/2 yrs. Not bad for a misogynist. I must be a masochist too. I want all you ladies to hate me; that's how I know I'm loved. (twilight zone music) Freeatlast. Let me give you an example of how I treat my wife. At the time of our wedding she smoked a pack and a half a day. Since my dad died of cigarette related heart failure at 52, I didn't like this. But I never made an issue of it. Once while conversing the subject came up. I said to her, not as an "authority" but as a friend, It (smoking) probably WILL take 5 years off your life." Finally, she quit on her own. She was pregnant and quit by reducing the number of cigs per day by 2 each day and it worked. Been more than 10 yrs now. She had smoked since she was 15 and had developed a cough that sounded really bad. If I had been a jerk to her she may never have quit. People need their space. Some women in my wife's situation may feel they would be better served by a husband who adamantly demanded that they quit smoking right from the start of the relationship. I'm glad you found out about the tumor in time to live. That must've been awful. QT said "our John". Gosh. You all own me. I'm speechless.

Men who behave rarely make GSC herstory.