johniam

I remember going to the drive in movie with my dad and coming home with my mom . Seriously, I couldn't tell you how old I was, but it was warm weather and I was in the yard with my mom and I could walk. We had this brass sprinkler that would water the yard in a circular shape and I remember having the thing in my hands and being mad at my mom because she wouldn't let me play with it or something and I was trying to get her wet by shaking it so that water residue would get on her clothes and skin. I must've been pretty young because that would have been a spanking offence if my dad'd been there. Mom just laughed it off.

quote: Edited to add....In hind sight, I realize that ....even though the animals in the store seemed well cared for and something that people needed....or the bible was being taught and God shared about....I was only valuable to the pet store owners as long as I was making them lots of money. In twi, I was only valuable or spiritual if I was producing as well...in both cases there was never any actual concern for me, or the animals or the scriptures, or the customers, it was all about how much income could be generated, with products and effective sales force. Yeah, but did you really ever doubt that you were valuable to God? I didn't. That's probably the biggest thing TWI ever taught me...that a nobody like me could actually be pleasing to God and still be being myself. I NEVER seriously doubted that. I've had a lot of conversations with people raised Catholic and I conclude that some of them really took it to heart when they got reamed in the confessional, but others didn't. That's the difference between TWI and the pet store. Once the motivation to sell pets was queered, there was no reason to stay, but in TWI at least God was still accessible, even if he told you to get the h out of there. You can take love out of a group of believers, but you can't take God out.

I must process things different than other people. In 1978 a 4th corp rev told me and other people in way homes that if any of us ever left TWI the devil would beat the .... out of us. Never bothered me. Don't know if that guy has left or not, but truth is, the devil does like to beat up believers, and he did it to me a lot more before TWI than during and since. I actually lost respect for that guy after he said that. It just felt like getting sent to the vice principal's office again

Yeah, the bright bright colors are happening now in STL. Polar Bear that is gorgeous.

Yeah, I know them. Their class is 'To Know God'. I knew people who discouraged internet use, but John Hendricks himself said he just thought the internet was one more thing that tempts people to spend too much time away from God, not "of the devil". They use the internet for their prayer power line. If anyone has a prayer request, they email it to you. They aren't that bad.

quote: What are your thoughts on finding a music teacher? I think that would be a good idea. I started playing when I was 13; took lessons for 2 years. After that I later took classical guitar lessons and got other musical training (choir, music theory, piano lessons) but everything else I sought out and learned on my own or from other guitarists. But during the first 2 years, the lessons played a strong role. Like Bluzeman said, your fingers are going to hurt for awhile, and being 50 instead of 13 is a minus. Your fingers aren't as limber anymore. Some chord switches might take longer to master than others. But if you take guitar lessons from someone you like, who encourages you, who praises you, then that weekly lesson will be a buffer zone of sorts. A time of refreshing. Cause you don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a guitar only to decide a month later..."Aw, man, this is just too tough!" That guitar lesson just might be what it takes to keep you going from week to week. I say DO IT!

quote: Emotions drive us to do things our logic would never consider. Emotions are responsible for medical advancements, scientific discoveries, and acts of heroism. How many times does an act of heroism get described as, "That was stupid! - but I'm sure glad you did it!" Yes, there is a flip side to all of this - emotions can be out of control and be the cause of unjust acts as well. Wars, murder, evil acts all stem from negative emotions. Controlling one's emotions really is not as necessary as building one's character, IMHO I think controlling emotions is necessary for building character. Character is having the strength to do what is right in the face of resistance. That resistance is usually in the form of your own or someone else's emotional input. How many times do we take the path of least resistance only to find it's also the path of most headaches? Stuff like that.

quote: As with the horses, my lack of dismissal of twi`s harmfull actions....it isn`t about being vindictive, it isn`t being mean spirited, it isn`t even mental instability that prevents me from forgiving, forgetting, and moving on. As with the family, it is a sense of integrity, duty, and obligation that motivates, and will continue to inspire me to educate people of the dangers, and warn the unwarey. To do anything else would be negligent. For someone to require that I forgive, forget, and move on in either situation would be irresponsible , unkind, and have possibly tragic consequences. I hope that explains my position better. OK. You want to warn people. I guess where the analogy stops is that, with the horses, there is a very real potential danger in the near future, but with TWI, VP is dead, LCM has been "put out to pasture" , and most of us here, especially the regular posters, are not likely to ever go back to TWI, so what you call educating I may call gossip, and I don't see what this so called warning will prevent. I dunno.

Interesting

I wonder which spinoff he was talking about. Break the sabbath??? 9 hour seminar??? No TV. no movies??? Doesn't sound like he was checking them out for very long.

Edi is right; Rascal you should put me in the balcony...at least, for a good chunk of time, until you feel more confident. Dooj was right, BTW. Flesh and blood. How would I possibly know what you do at weenie roasts? But seriously, I think you get yourself totally in defence mode when you read my posts for whatever reason. That's not good. Some of my acquaintances tell me, "But bro! Ya gotta protect your heart! Stay away from GSC! Those people only want to hurt your heart." You gotta protect yours, too. I don't hate you; I disagree with you and I think you set yourself up for failure sometimes.

Grr? That sounds really passionate. Got a couple of scriptures for you. Eccl 5:8 - If thou seest the oppression of the poor, and violent perverting of justice in a province, marvel not at the matter; for he that is higher than the highest regardeth; and there be higher than they. Rev. 21:4 - And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away. If you are as 'of the spirit' as you claim, then you should believe that. God's words, not mine. Even Excie once posted that she would not have a problem with VP having eternal life. Well, there WAS one stipulation about that; her dad had to get it also. If her dad didn't make it no way does VP get it. But the verse in Revelation says ALL tears. I think it's all without exception. Do you ever think about how blessed you are to live in the USA? You, like most others here, have access to education, a husband, a career, hobbies, religion, etc. There are children born in other countries who don't have a chance at those things. Just how much does the perceived suffering of the young women you refer to stack up against the outright horror that millions of third world children are born into? What about women in India who could be literally burned at the perverse whim of their husbands who get sick of them? What about the millions of children who get cancer and die before they're 10? Doesn't that stuff ever cross your mind? Yes, I think God 'winks at" a lot of stuff that happens in this world. He says he shall wipe away all tears from your eyes in the future. Are you going to wink at that?

Man, I stay away for 2 days and all hell breaks loose.

quote: carefully chosen victims forcibly raped, damaged, reputations trashed to cover, divorces and suicides engendered, Forcibly???? Where did you get that info? quote: I am beginning to think that if David was guilty of these kind of crimes.. and it was his lifestyle he had a pretty black heart. Acts 13:22 - and when he (God) had removed him (Saul) he raised up unto them David to be their king to whom also he gave testimony and said I have found David the son of Jesse a man after mine own heart which shall fulfill all my will. So you think God had a black heart, too? David literally murdered to cover up his adultery/rape of Bathsheba. Lifestyle? Like Mel Brooks said, "It's good to be the king." BTW the last 6 words of that verse are why David was a man after God's heart. Jesus did that, too. So God will 'wink at' adultery, rape, murder, if the right dude fulfills his will? Sounds to me like y'alls problem is with God, not with VP.

quote: Please prove your allegations of misconduct, or retract your statement John. God you are dense. I made no allegations of misconduct other than saying that you wrongly divide Gal. 5. Look up the word 'flesh' in a dictionary. None of the definitions are strictly evil. One definition is the human body as opposed to the soul. That is biblically inaccurate because scripture refers to the carnal mind, the mind of the flesh (Rom. 8). The accurate definition would be the human body and all it came with, as opposed to the spirit of God, which no one is born with. The flesh, by that definition, is not pure evil, just not subject to God (Rom. 8:7). In order to fix that you just use that carnal mind and say, "Yes, I confess that I am a sinner and that I deserve to die for even one sin I've done, and you, God, have sent Jesus the Christ as full payment for all sins I've done. Thank you. Yes, I accept Jesus Christ as payment for my sins and I will do my best to represent him on earth as you, God, would have me to do." That's all there is to it. Easy. But religion makes it difficult. They want to control people by controlling their flesh. God's sending Jesus the Christ as a once and for all offering and sacrifice for sin will never be good enough for religion. Then they'd have to love people rather than control them. Who ever heard of such nonsense. Yet, God still committed the word and ministry of reconcilliation to us mortals. Sadly, you buy into religion. You think we're saved by works. When you conclude that VPs alleged sins automatically mean that he never was a Christian, you are truly judging after the flesh.

quote:what good is romans or any other scripture if your life continues to exhibit fruit of the flesh? So you think that to become a Christian you now have no flesh??? I think I saw a picture of you on one of the weenie roast threads. If that isn't flesh, then what is it? Memorex?

quote: But when you tarnish someone's idol you jeopardize their belief system – their only defense is willful ignorance…and that's a real big thing to get over right there…pride…that you've been deceived by a cult leader So nothing VP taught in PFAL was Christian? Romans 10:9 isn't how to get saved? None of us are Christian if TWI was the only teaching we ever received? If that is your conclusion, then it is you who is guilty of 'willful ignorance'.

quote: I am sorry that they appear to say that which you do not wish to believe. So now you're saying that the bible doesn't mean what it says?

quote: 3. THEREFORE (yet), vic had a heart acceptible before gawd. Take a remedial English course. The words 'therefore' and 'yet' aren't synonymous. They're both conjunctions, but yet means nevertheless and therefore means consequently. I used the word 'yet', not 'therefore'. Talk about misrepresenting your opponent's position.

quote: You equating David's adultery with VP's drugging and raping betrays your obvious bias. There is no evidence that Bathesheba resisted David. There is no scripture that states that David drugged Bathesheba. Just HOW do you get drugging and rape out of that. [bTW RAPE was a big deal in the old testament - remember Dinah? (Gen 34) - her brothers cut the perpetrator's member (AKA -d1ck) off, IIRC.] I could be wrong here - but I was taught that Shechem raped her then found he was in love with her. There is the record of Tamar being raped by Absolom. (2 Sam 13) Once again, the rapist was killed. I'm not advocating murder here - but it does go to show that rape is not to be taken lightly. More double standard. There once was an article GSers could read called 'Why it's not an affair'. It made the point that if a man with prominent authority hit on a woman, then that woman could not possibly give meaningful consent, therefore, it is rape. I don't necessarily agree with all that, but David had more authority than any minister today. How could Bathsheba say no to him? I said nothing about drugging; I said that IF VP raped anybody, then so did David. If today's definition of rape was in place when David was king, then he raped Bathsheba and that's just the one that's in scripture. He was king for 40 years; he had 19 kids by almost that many wives. Ya think he never did anybody else like he did Bathsheba? Ya think he never felt entitled? Yet, God doesn't appear to be majorly concerned with this. 1 Kings 15:3-5 - talking about king Abijam - and he walked in the sins of his father which he had done before him and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God as the heart of David his father nevertheless for david's sake did the Lord his God give him a lamp in Jerusalem to set up his son after him and to establish Jerusalem because David did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord and turned not aside from anything that he commanded him all the days of his life save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. As for your claim that rape is a big deal.....Jacob's sons, Simeon and Levi, didn't cut their dicks off, they just killed them all, but Jacob had to relocate as a result of their actions and in Gen. 49 when Jacob is talking to all his sons on his death bed, he calls those 2 sons instruments of cruelty and curses their wrath. Absalom killed Amnon who raped his sister, but he himself was killed not much later. well, it DOES say somewhere that David was glad when he found out Amnon was dead. In VPs case, as in David's, it IS possible for someone to have sexual desire to the end that others are hurt, yet have their heart acceptible before God.

quote: The verses are pretty clear if you read them. But YOU still don't read them; how would you know. Galatians does NOT say that people are of the flesh or of the spirit. Verse 17 says the flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. Where does this take place? Inside each of us who are born again. Those unsaved don't HAVE a spirit for the flesh to lust against. DUH!!! When it says those people shall not inherit the kingdom of God, it means they won't get rewards. Besides all this, you don't know what really went on. All you have is GSC testimony; VP can't give his testimony. You were never brainwashed; you came to TWI freely just like all the rest of us because you saw some genuine fruit of the spirit that was lacking in your upbringing. So now 30 years later you find out some info about a guy you probably never met personally and it's all a scam and you have to blame it all on a dead guy. Some may call this "mature". I don't. You're in more bondage now than you ever were in TWI and appear to be intent on staying that way indefinitely.

quote: Hee hee..It's posts like this that keep me coming back to this forum. It's like driving by a horrible accident and you can't help but look at it as you drive by. Perhaps more than anything else, the wierwille apologists who still, after the scam has been revealed, unrefutably, in great detail...STILL defend the cornfield cult leader...perhaps more than anything else, this is a testament to the effectiveness of wierwille's ability to con. "run by humans who ain't perfect"...LOL ... ain't perfect? Talk about minimalization and denial!!!...The guy was drugging young girls and raping them!... I often wonder about the wierwille apologists who hang out here...I'm thinking that maybe they have a subconscious masochistic tendency? So there was no Christianity in PFAL? So Christianity is a scam? So "masochists" keep you coming back to this forum? What does that make you? All those stories about drugging and raping are still hearsay IMO. If VP raped anybody, then David raped Bathsheba and who knows who else, yet God still called him a man after His own heart. Surely if VP was the monster he's portrayed as here SOMEBODY would have gotten to him. I went to 14 ROAs. Would it really have been that hard for someone to bring a gun with them? Go to the main tent early? Make sure to get a seat in the front section? Wait until VP was behind the podium? Pick a time when he got everybody to laugh at something and let their collective guard down? Pull the gun out and run up there and fire several shots? If he really destroyed all these lives like he was supposed to have...surely somebody would have been willing to do that. The guy who killed John Lennon had his gun crammed into a coat pocket. He just waited for his opportunity and BAM fish in a barrel. VP was out in the open all the time. All the bodyguards in the world couldn't have prevented an assassination if the perp wanted it bad enough. So all these drugging and raping stories are greatly exaggerated IMO. The worst that VP did; the worst ANY Christian can do...is, as David did, give great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme. That's how God sees it. By 'enemies of the Lord' I don't just mean people and IMO a good chunk of that blasphemy is found here.

I don't have a problem with Galatians; I have a problem with your wrong dividing of it. You keep insisting that it says people are of the flesh. It doesn't. That's like saying that some people are of the earth while others aren't. EVERYBODY lives on the earth;and everybody has flesh. Romans 8 says God condemned sin in the flesh. It doesn't say he condemned VP in the flesh. Furthermore, you conclude that salvation is by works. It's not; it's by grace. You'll be glad about that someday; trust me.

I'll bet that Senator knows a lot more of his fellow politicians who do this than evangelists. Sounds like he's trying to steal some liberal/democratic votes. So she wants a 23K crapper; so what? Sounds like some stories I heard about Sadaam Hussein, a little weird, but does this mean the govt should be involved if I want to drink Heineken instead of Schlitz? If she has ANY tax exempt rights at all, why should she be limited to generic toilets or generic anything? It's not like she's declaring bankruptcy.

quote: quote: The same troubles we had before are still there, only worse for having been ignored for decades. In the end, I felt like I had been drawn so very far away from God... Speak for yourself. Yeah-if they were speaking for themself, they would have said things like "I felt like" instead of -wait, they DID speak for themself. John just didn't like what they said for themself.... WW, do you see the word 'we'? It's the 4th word in the quote. This means she was speaking for ALL of us without authorization. She stubbornly refuses to acknowledge this.