johniam

quote: The mansons tried to "love bomb" Carl Wilson as well. I heard it was Dennis. quote: The words of God were pure and powerful and it was my allegiance to the word of God, and the actual deliverance by our wonderful God, which made me so loyal to the Way. Interesting that she admits that she got some serious deliverance from twi despite what else happened. Of course, Romans 10:9,10 are quoted out loud in the X rated cartoon R. Crumb's 'Fritz the Cat'. quote: When you set yourself up to decide right and wrong--well, it doesn't get much more morally superior than that. We have all been given the tools to decide right and wrong. They're called brains. Morally superior means you think you're "better" than someone else. Morals are man made. White supremists thought they were morally superior to black people. It's amusing to me that our fair and balanced mainstream media calls liberals "politically correct" when THEY get all morally superior, yet when conservatives do it, they're "reactionary, out of touch," etc. I knew a guy in twi who had a tendency to be morally superior. He married a girl he had met 6 weeks earlier, then came over and bragged about how they had no sex before they got married. His tone was "see, it CAN be done!" They divorced several years later leaving a 4 year old girl bounced from house to house for the rest of her childhood. I'm really not trying to rejoice in that guy's "iniquity"; I'm just saying it doesn't pay to let yourself get in that state of mind. We ALL do it.

If you think the FBI didn't take VP that seriously, then why do YOU?

quote: Wierwille claimed there were FBI agents on grounds, but were there realy? We don't know. There were. They were watching us at least since pfal '77, which happened before Jonestown. They watched us at LEAD HQ. They did think we were going to start attacking places with guns. I guess we weren't that kind of cult. Beliefs are one thing; terrorism is quite another.

Waysider thanks for posting that link. I didn't know how much the book cost. I tried to get it at the library; not there. I did not know Kris personally, but she was in STL the year before I got here. Pretty much everybody said good things about her. Even today nobody that knew her says anything bad about her. I will get around to reading her book eventually. That's not a bad price for a new book with that many pages. quote: I get it. You must have hunted all day for that one! No, it just popped in my mind. The analogy is not a 100% match, obviously, but I just think you live in a religious dream world. Your choice. If any of those guys you mentioned who were at your place for beers and fellowship ever DID want to watch some porno, then they probably wouldn't ask for your permission beforehand.

The phrase 'drink the koolaid' came from that. I remember at ROA 1979 VP said that if the US govt paid to have those bodies brought back to the US, then they certainly must've paid to have them shipped down there, too. That was on the last night of that year's ROA; he also said that the FBI was there and that they didn't have to sneak in, he would have sold them a ticket. "They think we got guns! Go ahead, tear up all 147 acres of this place if you want. If you have God, then you don't need guns!" The adversary definitely used that event to start a witch hunt against "cults", IMO.

I first got internet service in early April of 2000. I was with AOL and I couldn't use my real name in my email address because somebody else had it. In a fit of frustration I chose johnIMNOT as my email addy. So 2 weeks or so later when I signed up to post on Waydale I had to pick a user name, and johniam just seemed like the logical choice.

No left turns unstoned.

quote: and there is no caveat for "believer" bachelor parties. Oh, no? 2 Sam. 6:14 - and David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. David not only did the bachelor party thing, he brought the bachelor party to the PEOPLE! But, alas, there were morally superior people back then, too. 6:20,21 - Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel today, who uncovered himself today in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! And David said unto Michal, it was before the Lord, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel: therefore will I play before the Lord. Apparently David didn't appreciate moral superiority either. 6:23 - Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

quote: I hope .. the newer generation, finds.. LSD 25.. I dunno, Ham. I did that stuff probably 100 times total and look how I turned out.

quote: I was disheartened by the nose dive this thread took with this post by johniam....it took us right back to that place we all have managed to escape. There are some wonderful thoughts on this thread....but, here we are again......wallowing in base conversation...I guess that is what happens when one discusses VP and PFAL with a "Believer". Hey, the guy (waysider) asked me if I took CFS and if I remembered something specific about it. You can't get me to directly address your concerns so you resort to your security blanket which is moral superiority. Your self righteous attitude is more disgusting to God than anything I've posted. You just don't get it. quote: Better yet, what in the he!! is wrong with people who saw what was going on and still don't understand it? I guess some of us got our pov about sexual matters from somewhere other than the dark ages.

quote: Did you take the old CF&S class, John? If you did, you, yourself, must have heard him describe the bestiality movies. That means that even you caught a glimpse of what was going on and, like many of us, failed to realize the importance of what we were seeing. I took it 3 times. One of which took up probably 10 of the 89 pages in the 'big things I learned in pfal' thread. lol. This old guy got a boner and, well, ok never mind, but I do remember VP saying that Linda Lovelace made a movie with a German Shepherd and that the dog was smarter than she was; it was trying to get away. Don't remember anything about a horse. Don't remember any references to any movies either. I lived in San Francisco in the early 70s. Saw several porn type movies there. Since then the only porn movies I saw were at believers' bachelor parties. CF&S was NOT serious porn. I kind of admired that a church bred guy would dare to present sex that honestly. I saw many examples of parents and children taking the same CFS class. Wouldn't quite be the same atmosphere in a church.

Hmm. I like CSNYs AND Matthews Southern Comfort's versions better than Joni's.

quote: Sometimes I wonder why he wastes his and our time. Dude, read some of the other posts on this board, the evidence is overwhelming. Evidence? You consider any post to be "evidence"?

quote: Perhaps a brief musical interlude will shed some light on the matter. Did you see these comments on that page? wow the words are so retarded. it can only be used for crushing a real life rabbit with a steel toed boot. to hear the loud screams is exciting. NYTDDS 9 hours ago If I ever kill myself. I will do it with an overdose of Heroin and have this song playing on a loop so that when people find me they'll get a nice laugh. These people think like the guy in 'Clockwork orange' who was 'singing in the rain'.

Do you think there's going to be a 'complaint department' visible immediately after the return? If there is, then there won't be any time to have the judgements.

quote: then in mathematical terms.. if I survive past teen years, I must be doing pretty good.. OK, I think I follow you. 53 is the 17th prime, then 59, 61, and that means 67 would be the 20th...past teen years. Remember, 68 was VPs age at death. I've wondered about the significance of prime numbers off and on myself. One time I figured out every prime number from 0 to 1,000. I was expecting that after the number 100 that the number of prime numbers would drop off...that there would be less likelihood of numbers being only divisible by 1 and themselves...the higher the numbers got, but NO! There are 170 prime numbers between 0 and 1,000. There are 23 between 0 and 100, but 5 of those are in the first 10. After 10 all prime numbers must end in 1,3,7,or9. As an asst mgr for a fast food chain in the 80s one of my duties was to take a huge sales reading and reconcile the numbers with sales projections for that date and day of the week. To do this I stuck the key in the manager register and hit 601 enter. Then for the next 5-10 minutes this huge tape of sales readings and statistics for the previous day would spit out of the register. Moot now that it's the digital age, but 601 happens to be a prime number. I wondered if that was why or part of why they chose that number. Who knows?

quote: Escaping "negative" situations is not what gives us peace. In fact, we are promised persecution and suffering for His namesake.....that is one of the promises of God. You speak with forked tongue. Out of one side of your mouth you say that a true Christian should be getting persecuted and killed, but out of the other side of your mouth you say that TWI, who supposedly raped and killed and destroyed souls, is evil even though they did what YOU SAY should be happening in the lives of true Christians. One of my favorite Hitchcock movies is 'Frenzy'. Good suspense. You know who the killer is maybe 20 minutes into the movie yet the suspense continues throughout. In one scene the killer says to a woman "you're my kind of woman" and then twists logic around and around and in less than 5 minutes he's entitled to kill her. And it all started with "you're my kind of woman". That's precisely what you do when I post; you remove what I say from its context, thus freeing you up to assign any and all application of what I said that I never intended. That's likely how you worked the word, too.

I think people have a lot of questions, preconceived opinions, etc. before they find this place and they just want to express themselves. Plus, by bonding with other posters, thus establishing an interpersonal relationship, they are then more prepared to read lengthy stuff.

I never said anything about tangible safety. Years ago I worked at a restaurant. They hired a woman. She was in her mid 20s. She had 3 kids, all under 5. She lost custody of them because of her lifestyle. She was always saying, "life is a gamble". Over and over again she would say that. Our restaurant was high volume, so they kept her at the easy stations like drinks, back cash, dining room, etc. She got frustrated and quit. Two weeks later she was shot to death trying to make a drug buy. Life's a gamble, indeed. There is a difference between gambling and risk taking. No area of life is without some risk. Tangible safety? Another oxymoron. But if you base your life on the word of God, and you even make major decisions based on prayer and the word of God, and time and time again your prayers get answered and you escape negative situations, and you're blessed and peaceful, then it's not gambling, is it? I don't feel lucky, I feel like God, who created heaven and earth, actually cares about me. That's as safe as it gets. You have direct access to that same God.

quote: Sorry to have to tell you this. What you really experienced is commonly called "love bombing Any family could be accused of that. Perhaps that's why so many of us were looking for love outside our families.

quote: Wheat berries. Yes. Who can forget the wheat berries and oat groats Whoa! What are oat groats? I'm particularly interested in the word 'groats'. I still have a cassette copy of Firesign Theatre's masterpiece 'Don't crush the dwarf, hand me the pliers' which has on it what initially sounds like a church service, but turns out to be the worship of food. Funny stuff. But this preacher is always talking about hot buttered groat clusters. He hands them through the TV to this guy who gets his salvation through food. It's bizarre. But what is a groat? I remember a Dick Groat who played shortstop for the 1960 Pirates and for the 1964 Cardinals, but just curious. Speaking of wheat berries anybody remember in fall of 1979 how we were supposedly in danger of the illuminati taking over the country and each twig was supposed to get a 6 month supply of food? Ours included rolled oats and wheat berries, which one of those guys still has!!!!!!

As one fourth of a men's way home the year after my wow year, I was in a very confrontational meeting with the revved up limb leader. There was a girls way home there, too. At one point he said that the devil would beat the .... out of any one of us who ever left twi. For the record, IMO, the devil beat the .... out of me BEFORE I was in twi, the devil beat the .... out of me WHEN I was in twi, and the devil beat the .... out of me AFTER I left twi. That's what the devil does. That limb leader is no longer with twi and I hear he's doing fine. The things that made me vulnerable were relieved by twi at first. It's easy to multitask drugs into your schedule if you're in HS and all you have to do is homework, feed yourself, entertain yourself, and show up for parties, but after HS, when you're supposed to behave like an adult and you have no clue how to do that and time marches on and it isn't getting any better, then drugs can get in the way. Most of my issues stemmed from that. Ironically, the first twig I was in was in the habit of rolling joints less than a minute after the last amen. On the wow field it was different. The last time I got high was the night I got my wow pin. Don't miss it at all. Everybody who was in my first twig had quit dope within 2 or 3 years after I went wow as well. I don't envy my family, either. My mom and dad were in their 40s when I was born and my 3 siblings are all more than 10 years older than me. So I was already in a kinda weird situation. Believe it or not, twi made me feel more normal. All 3 of my siblings got college degrees. I never have not been on speaking terms with them, but I'm sure it would have been interesting being a fly on the wall around them and my mom after I left to go wow. "Our already troubled baby is now in a cult!" That was the kind of .... that creeped me out. TWI was immediate family by comparison. It's still that way. Arm's length relationship. Not too close, not too far away. One of my sisters died couple years ago. Lot of the things of concern 30 years ago are moot now. The only way I felt vulnerable in twi was regarding marriage. I desperately wanted to be married and every door seemed to close in my face. Finally, I made up my mind that even if I NEVER got married I was going to enjoy my life anyway. That's about the time I met my wife. If I hadn't married her I may have stayed in twi for years longer. They tried to pry us apart. I wouldn't let that happen. I gotta go, later.

quote: quote: What is the common denominator? Is it not desire? No. Then what is it?

So when he taught for 5 hours on the word 'of' in Romans 1:1 (Paul a servant OF Jesus Christ), just who did he steal THAT from?

quote: I'm still waiting for your definition of what your hate/love is.. what about "sinner"? what is the definition.. God is love. I can say truthfully that I love... God Jesus Christ myself my wife my children raspberries tomotoes rock music sports on TV Different ways to show love for all those things, but... What is the common denominator? Is it not desire? I think it is possible to desire for someone to change and choose good over evil, yet hate what they do that is evil. I think that's basically what won us over to twi. Someone was willing to look past our flesh and be encouraging and compassionate and understanding toward us in order to give us a chance to choose Jesus Christ, or a better understanding of Jesus Christ if we were already born again. VPs teaching of the word was too detailed for him to just be scamming us. He could have been an auto mechanic or a salesman if he just wanted to scam people. He really believed what he taught biblically. He loved the word of God. He communicated that when he taught. That's what encouraged us to sell it to others. Most of us never met VP or never spent any time with him. The fruit of the spirit we saw was in other people.