johniam

quote: johniam is taking up riding lessons? *I* did not send that to her.

Remember the 5 kinds of faith? 1) natural believing 2) the faith of Jesus Christ 3) household or common faith 4) manifestation of faith 5) fruit of the spirit faith Of those 5, only one doesn't require God's direct involvement. Natural believing. You don't think it will help you if you go to a job interview with a positive attitude? You go to that interview thinking you're the best, you will make a fine employee, you will be a blessing to that company; and this won't be better than going to the interview afraid, self conscious, worried, etc???? THAT is an example of natural believing! We all use that and have for all our lives. As I said, the same mental action is required, but God is involved in the others. Jesus said he that is unfaithful in that which is least (natural believing) is also unfaithful in that which is most (believing which requires God's direct involvement). You still don't think there's a difference? Consider that in Romans 12:3 it says we all have THE MEASURE of faith. One size fits all. But in Matt. 6 Jesus says his disciples are "ye of little faith" and in Matt. 8 he says the centurion had "great faith"! The faith of Jesus Christ, which is the basis of the household faith, the manifestation of faith, and the fruit of the spirit faith is one size fits all; if you're born again, part of the body of Christ, then you HAVE it! The faith which can be great or small is natural believing, accessible to saint and sinner alike. Got it?

quote: I for one am much more interested to read John's views on this thread than be so annoyed by his derailing activities on other threads that I want to tie him to a chair and make him write "I will pay attention" 1000 times. Wow! How can I write anything if I'm tied to a chair?LOL. A few of my elementary school teachers yelled at me to "listen and pay attention". Don't feel bad; it didn't work for them, either. Never had to write anything, but I remember once infuriating my first grade teacher. I was looking out the window during class and she asks the whole class a question, then abruptly says "John, what's the answer" hoping to put me on the spot. I looked at her, gave the answer, then immediately resumed looking out the window. She must've thought I was a debbil child. The ironic thing is, I had issues with authority figures in general for most of my youth. Nothing really serious, but if I didn't like a teacher I would find some way to disrespect him/her. Got sent to the principal's office or suspended from school a lot. You'd think a group like twi would have REALLY pushed my buttons big time, but I learned how to respect authority from them better than anywhere else. Weird. quote: i don't think it's amusing - just really sad - when vp defenders get riled up and project their own frustrations onto others. What? ME projecting my frustrations????? You guys have (some of you) been doing that to me for 3 months. Socks: I guess with my butterfly mind and all that I can derail my own thread a bit. I just don't want to start or interrupt another thread for this, but about a month ago I found out that you wrote that Joyful Noise song 'Brand new way'. IMO the version of that song that was on the 'Heartbeat' recording was much better than the one on the original JN album. It was peppier. Mike Wheeler's steel guitar provided needed spice. But I played in a STL area ministry band called Blessed Hope and we did that song, but we added some theatre to it. You're going to love this. We began by doing that routine from the TV show 'Hee Haw' where they sing "Glooom, despair, and agony on me (AUGHHHH). Deep, dark, depression, excessive misery (WAWWWWW)" and so forth. Right after that a guy in the band would say "Folks, that was what MY life was like until I accepted the Lord Jesus Christ. Cause NOW I have a BRAND NEW WAY!" Then we'd go into the song. Got good response. OK, I'm done blessing your life for today.

quote: He was recognizing God....that is the whole point. It doesn't say that. Did that centurion believe in the God of Israel? Or did he see Jesus heal other people, thus know it was available, and make a point of finding out if he could also receive it? Look! I'm in total agreement that you can't just point your believing raygun at anything you want to and, zap, the situation is under control. I don't think that's what VP taught, either, I think many twi people inferred that, often through a well meaning twig coordinator or somebody else, but no, you can't just "believe" for anything you want; you need God's direct help for some stuff. I think VP called it a "law" because, like, say, the law of gravity, God set that up from creation and doesn't have to be directly involved for stuff to fall to the earth that's lighter than air or whatever. You can get positive results by being a positive thinker; everybody knows that. God doesn't have to be directly involved, that IS like a scientific law. But to get some results, you need God to get directly involved. Never hurts to just ASK Him, does it? I had something happen in 1998 that still blows my mind to think about. It was the first halloween in our then house in Michigan. I had just finished walking to houses around the neighborhood trick or treating with my then 9 year old daughter. It was fun. If you don't want to participate in halloween you keep your porch light off so people know not to come to your house, right? We got all this candy ready and my daughter was eagerly anticipating having people come to our house, but the porch light at our house would only come on by motion detector. If you didn't come close enough to the house, then it wouldn't come on. You couldn't just have it on solid for some reason. So NOBODY came trick or treating to our house. This was upsetting to my daughter; she started crying. By now it's 9:30PM, usually too late to expect trick or treaters anyway, but I said to her, "Why don't you pray for God to send somebody here". She did so feebly still feeling down. Five minutes passed. Nothing. So we went inside. Two minutes later, 2 people were outside our door. Fortunately my daughter hadn't started changing out of her costume yet. I called her, handed her the big bowl with the candy in it, and pointed outside. Voila! When Jesus turned water into wine, there were no lives at stake, like when Moses parted the Red Sea. The only thing at stake was that acquaintences of Mary didn't have enough wine and would be embarrassed socially. God still went to work, didn't he? I posted the halloween incident years ago and sure enough some self righteous GSer mocked the idea that God would send someone to my house just to comfort my daughter. I replied "if my God was as small as yours, I'd think of getting me a new one" which was a VP quote. Like I said, it never hurts to just ask Him for stuff. Another mistake that some twiers did was to judge people for "not believing". VP did this, I know. Jesus did it too, but not as a permanent condemnation, rather as a 'you're not where you need to be yet' observation. Someone who was in residence at Emporia once posted that he got reproved because a drunk driver rode over some shrubbery late at night when that person was on bless patrol. "Why didn't you believe to avoid that????" That is LOL material. When VP said believing works for saint and sinner alike, he obviously wasn't referring to ALL believing; he was referring to positive thinking type of believing which CAN work without God getting directly involved. If you think about it, you'll never believe something which requires God's direct involvement (moving a mountain, cursing a fig tree, getting someone to come to your house after 9:30PM on halloween night, etc.) if you can't or won't believe something that doesn't require God's direct involvement. The 'mental gymnastics' are the same, the difference is that either God has to be directly involved or He doesn't. That centurion? Yes, God had to be directly involved. Jesus knew that, but did the centurion? Not necessarily. Jesus was his contact point; he believed Jesus could do it, but did he understand fully that Jesus could do nothing of himself, that God was Jesus' sufficiency? It doesn't say; all it says is that the centurion BELIEVED! Voila!

I'd rather have a "butterfly mind" than a caterpillar mind. quote: I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this lately but VP wasn't really a "Dr.". There was a poster here in the past who found it amusing that the most angry bitter posters here were the biggest buttkissers when they were in twi. Shoe fit?

quote: EXPERIENCE IS NO GUARANTEE FOR TRUTH True enough, but I think the quote is "sincerity is no guarantee for truth" and "it's not true because you experienced it; it's true because the word says it". Something like that. quote: Wierwille is clearly implying here that no God is needed for the so-called law of believing to come into play. Consider the centurion in Matt. 8:5-13. This centurion recognized that Jesus had authority. He humbled himself by saying he wasn't worthy for Jesus to come under his roof, but he made no mention of God; he just wanted Jesus to heal his servant. Jesus praised him for his faith, saying he hadn't seen such faith in all Israel. The centurion's servant was healed "as thou hast believed", not as thou hast recognized God. quote: For me, it's never stopped, I'll say that. Anyone who wonders where the good times went is on a different train. Can't be more blunt than that. If the Advanced Class material helps, fine but I'd suggest don't get stuck on trying to come up with the right "formula" for success or tagged with losers that want to redo something that's already been done. It's either real and now or it isn't. Everything else can be bought and sold but the things of God in action won't be bagged. Are you saying that from man's point of view it's always going to be hit and miss? You say formula, I say strategy. What's wrong with trying to redo something that blessed a lot of people? quote: I stayed out because I found my life to be incomplete in TWI. Sounds like you had personal issues that were separate from VP or twi, yet, that twi couldn't or wouldn't help you with. I'm glad those got resolved for you. Praise God, and to a lesser extent, whoever God worked through to help you. quote: the basic message preached in the book of Acts was twofold: Jesus is Lord and He is risen. That was out there from day one of the church - long before Romans 10:9 & 10 was written.. Jesus is Lord to those who consent, at least in this life. Romans 10:9 tells specifically what to consent to. quote: My point on this was that vp played the epistles against the gospels with his distorted message of cheap grace. He did no such thing. Grace is not cheap. It cost God His son. If it weren't for what Jesus did in the gospels, there would be no epistles. Again, in the gospels the holy spirit was not yet given, but in the epistles it IS given. But you're not impressed? Grace is only as "cheap" as you make it. quote: For each of us the time is surely coming when we shall have nothing but God. When I pray, I have nothing but God RIGHT NOW!

Dr. Ruth, anyone?

quote: I would really love to be able to genuinely discuss scripture with you, but sadly, we really do not share a common faith. That breaks my heart. I said earlier that we are not going to connect. When you posted (wherever that was) that you don't believe you were Christian in twi you lost all credibility with me. I will read your posts, but your premises I don't agree with. I think that anybody who SIT in session 12 (or anywhere else, for that matter) is born again of God's spirit and is going to be in the gathering together. I know you don't believe that, but hopefully we'll laugh at this stuff someday.

quote: That's what's at the root of this, not the lack of motivation for twiggies to accost people in malls. So Jesus "accosted" the woman at the well? quote: I recall him saying that if the Board of Trustees would get it together he could believe to be healed. I don't recall this; did he say it to way corps only? All I remember was the 2 SIT alerts. quote: You must not have the same PFAL book as me. Mine says "it works for saint and sinner alike". I don't recall anything about a raygun. quote: Of course, I don't expect you or anyone else to drop something you've believed for decades just because I said so. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. How did yours get broken? Did you stop getting prayers answered, or have you just followed the crowd and decided pfal CAN'T be the word of God because VP wasn't perfect? quote: TWI, at least for me, was not a true Christian experience. The same is true with the Holy Spirit. There are others who may be able to be more biblical in their explanation. All I can tell you is that I experienced both, and the Christ in the Bible and the Christ taught in TWI are as different as day is from night. It made a big difference in my life. How? As for me, before twi I was miserable when I wasn't high. After twi, I have peace in my heart, I get prayers answered, I can keep jobs, my family, though skeptical, is clearly impressed with how I changed, not just for a short time, for thirty plus years, it hasn't stopped! If that isn't a "true Christian experience" then it doesn't exist. Just how, practically, is the difference like day and night in your life, because my experience is the other way around. quote: perhaps this is one biblical explanation by way of what they avoided: with TWI's misconception of the importance of the gospels [stating they are NOT addressed to us] places a strategic detour in the path of a Christian's developing faith. For our learning does not equal for our ignoring. What do you do with differences like... John 7:38,39 - ...for the holy ghost was not yet given... and... Romans 5:5 - and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the holy ghost which is given unto us. Back in John and the other gospels, Jesus did many mighty works, yet there was no hope for us, no love of God shed abroad in our hearts, no holy ghost. Nobody could do the "greater works than these" in the gospels, either. Even LCM used to say that the gospels were written to mature believers to show how Jesus walked with God. quote: i certainly have a loooooong way to go in this Christian journey but i tend to believe the truly transforming experience of trying to follow Jesus Christ....to commune with Him.....is a deeply personal experience - that is different for every Christian. So Romans 10:9,10 is just for Paul, not for the whole church??? I have 3 kids. They respond differently to the input my wife and I give them. We have to treat them as individuals, but they all live on the same planet, same house, same high school, same fellowships of believers, same a lot of things, and, for the time, have to go through the same me and my wife for many of their needs. We are all called to be in the same body of Christ. That just sounds like your excuse not to submit to the written word.

quote: Heavy emphasis on the law of believing, name it and claim it concepts. E.W. Kenyon is one of the originators. Much of it resembles the first few sessions of PFAL (IMO). The so called law of believing has been misunderstood. If you have the word of God, THEN you can believe (with action) and it shall come to pass, like Jesus said. Believing, however, is not this 'raygun' that you can just shoot at any situation and magically make it right. If that were true, then no God IS needed. I know that VP wondered late in his life where his believing had failed; why he was in that situation, but I doubt that he himself thought of believing as a 'raygun' in every day stuff. You think I believe everything he ever said just because he said it? No.

quote: You say the human mind does not like to entertain two opposing thoughts at the same time. Dissonance is a good word here. It's a musical term. In the most PG rated music, a simple minor chord is technically a dissonance. In deeper music, a dissonance can be resolved by a lesser dissonance. Each mind entertains thoughts differently. VP said that when 2 clear and plain duties conflict, then one has to decide which to perform and which to neglect. quote: When Jesus was tempted....Satan spoke the truth. He didn't misquote the OT. Actually, he did. The original scripture read... Ps.91:11,12 - For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways; they shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. The devil said... He shall give his angels charge over thee; to keep thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. The devil omitted in all thy ways and he added at any time. According to Matt. he also omitted to keep thee. The only reason you even know who Jesus is is because it is written. That was Jesus' standard in dealing with the devil himself. That's good enough for me.

quote: One center of reference for truth? How do you get something as big as "the truth" squeezed into one little box? No, I think you find bits and pieces of truth all around you if you keep your mind open to possibility and change. And, it's not a constant. It evolves and grows, much like a tiny seed grows into a mighty Redwood. (It's always a Redwood throughout the entire process. It simply takes on differing forms.) The word 'truth' has more than one shade of meaning. Truth is the opposite of lies, which are spoken; fact is the opposite of fiction, which is written. In a court of law, a witness must swear to tell the truth (speak it). In this meaning, truth is relative, limited by the understanding and intents of the person speaking the "truth". The more biblical meaning of truth is that which is the same yesterday, today, and forever, Jesus Christ. That truth doesn't evolve and grow; it's absolute. It is difficult to pin down the difference between relative truth and absolute truth, since both are woven together in many conversations (threads), but consider that in Matt. 4 and Luke 4 when Jesus was tempted by the devil, 5 of the 6 times he says "it is written" (truth), but one time he says "it is said". Perhaps our relative truth, that which we hold together with points of reference, should lean heavily on the written absolute truth, Jesus Christ.

VP didn't think he was entitled to demand from God like God was his subordinate, he was promoting confidence toward God rather than groveling and sniveling like he saw many people do during his upbringing.

quote: The Word takes the place of the absent Christ. The Holy Spirit takes the place of Christ in the Word in us. It's obvious that VP meant BODILY absent, not totally absent, and he IS! He told his disciples that it was expedient that he go away. The word that takes the place of the absent Christ includes Jesus, in fact, he's the lynch pin; no Jesus, no salvation. No access to God. No gift of holy spirit. No miracles, no healings. VP was exhorting us as Christians to get in 'proactive mode' and get ready to go, stand, and speak God's word rather than sit on their butts like the Christians he saw. The world is always coming up with ways to scare Christians out of speaking the word. In Acts, Peter and John were told not to speak or teach in Jesus' name. This is STILL the devil's will for God's people. They weren't told not to read their bibles. They weren't told not to fellowship together. They weren't told not to pray. They weren't told not to ABS. They were told not to speak. I think the real aim of the advanced class was to give us the tools to walk with God when speaking the word to others, new people or grads. THAT'S the part that didn't connect. I wasn't around when the word supposedly moved so powerfully in California, New York, Indianapolis, etc. Some of you guys were there. Was there ANYTHING different that stands out? Did the increased numbers just cause everybody to become complacent?

quote: ....no wonder VP said Simon was saved. Acts 8:13 says Simon believed. When Peter said thy money perish with thee in v.20, is it possible that Simon's physical death was to happen not long after? Why would Peter give Simon the option to repent, and why would Simon ask Peter to pray for him if Simon was not saved? Peter was not as merciful with Ananias and Saphirra in Acts 5, who were also saved.

This goes back to pfal; centers of reference for truth. VPs point was that if you have multiple centers of reference for truth (not facts), then you risk being in mental confusion. Whether anybody agrees with pfal doctrine or not, each of us has to pick our own center(s) of reference for truth, reality, whatever you prefer to call it. Jesus did it: "I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me!" Many college educated people have science and their philosophical 'flavor of the month' as their center of reference. It's not that big of a deal, really.

quote: Finally she laughed when she realized that I had said it with innocence Reminds me of one of the Sean Connery Bond movies. He's talking to a large breasted girl who says, "I'm Plenty (her name)", to which 007 replies, "Sure you are".

quote: For Bible fans it's Jesus Christ. For PFAL fans it's vp. After all, vp said "the word" takes the place of the absent Christ. And what is "the word"? the expanded literal translation according to usage [by every true-blue follower of the way] is the interpretation of the Bible as taught by vp in PFAL. You could say that about ANY Christian denomination. "Bible fans"??? If Jesus isn't absent, then WHERE DOES HE LIVE? No BS, give me a street address. quote: furthermore, the CONSISTENT failure by folks to achieve the promises of PFAL is probably one of the biggest reasons for many to not only doubt God's power and existence but even more so - and i might add rightfully so - the validity of PFAL and the integrity of vp. What failure? I get prayers answered all the time. You?

quote: Is targeting the two year old children of Christians for medication evaluation actually in the care act? Wouldn't surprise me. quote: If you mean the congress enacting a law which mandated the testing of two year olds and targets the children of Christians in particular then we run into the problem of established law which allows for freedom of religion. No problem at all. In fact, this would be an effective 'end around' freedom of religion. The 'stated reason' would be in psychological terms, but the real reason would be, as I said, to target Christians. Maybe Bob Stanley picked the wrong pronoun. His song should have said... Who are they? Why are they here? What should they do with your life? 'They' is a 3rd person plural pronoun. It applies to many scenerios. Notice I said "if the return happened right now". It could still be centuries away. If it doesn't happen for, say, a hundred years or more, then the current so called psychiatry/psychology will be long obsolete by then. Remember, the adversary adapts his methods to the conditions and the times. He can always get done what he wants to get done, but he has to work through humans, so he has to work through what humans use. Right NOW? Humans definitely use psychiatry/psychology in a big way. Thankfully, we believers have the guarantee that "he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way". No matter how bad it gets in the world, the light of the body of Christ will keep the adversary down until the return, when the light is gone, and darkness can then, for a season, take over completely. 'They' is a 3rd person plural pronoun, nothing more.

quote: You know, the Beatles were seed boys. So were the Dave Clark 5 I think. Also, Barbara Streisand and any other secular musician you liked unless they were a country singer. Dave Clark Five??? Bits and Pieces, Catch us if you can, Glad all over, oh yeah, Awww chaquita! Whatever. They were like Herman's Hermits and Freddy and the Dreamers: NOT THE BEATLES! Country? I heard that Loretta Lynn and John Denver were seed. I threw Europe 72 on the fire one year. You can take Salem out of the country, BUT.... As for twi terminology, lately the fellowship I attend has been emphasizing that there's a difference between ask and thank. VP taught that we already have the money in the bank so we don't need to ask, we can demand. Many prayers thank God for stuff we don't have yet. What would happen if you went to McDonalds and said to the cashier "thank you for a big Mac". Get weird looks, I'm sure.

quote: The advanced class should probably have laid out specific examples from OT and NT, but made it much more plain that quiet time with God may well be the most important. Just quiet time, so that you could learn to hear that still small voice even more clearly. Not "fellowship" time with others - but space to think and reflect. Alas, as with most stuff at TWI, space to think and reflect was in short supply. I've been saying to people for awhile that the narrative parts of the NT are concerned with the spreading of the gospel. Jesus led it in the 4 gospels and Peter and Paul led it in Acts. If you want God's take on humans being human you need to look in the OT. As for miracles and healings, sure the gospels and Acts have reference to them, but not in as much detail as in the OT. When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead he just "ministered to him" with a prayer near where he was buried. Nothing fancy. Peter's shadow and handkerchiefs and aprons from Paul's body caused healings and miracles in Acts. Whoa! In the OT you have Elisha healing the Shunamite woman's inability to conceive, then raise her son from the dead by doing something that would be criminal in today's culture. Then he healed Naaman's leprosy. In those you have enough detail about how Elisha walked with God. All those healings took time. You don't get that detail in the NT records, you are left with the conclusion that it takes God's power to do what Jesus, Peter, Paul, and others did. Jesus connected with his disciples and Paul received the same connection, although he wasn't taught directly by Jesus about ministering healing. Even in the AC syllabus somewhere it says that the lack of consistency of healings and miracles has caused many to doubt God's power, even His existence.

quote: Wait, are you implying we don't have to still blindly accept that there is a "they" plotting to get "us"? Maybe, you just forgot how to operate your secret magic spirit powers to see the spiritual realm........ or in our case have a serious case of societal paranoia. What if I said that they made a law requiring all Americans to pay for health care by 2013? Is that also societal paranoia? Other theys are trying to overthrow it, but the theys are all actually there.

quote: you are a f'ing loser sorry i said that out of anger you are in serious denial Good recovery. The word loser has a permanent connotation, similar to the word fool. If I'm a loser, there's no point in trying, but if I'm just in denial, then there's hope. I guess. When the devil gives you only 2 choices they're BOTH wrong. Example: Demi Moore's character in the movie 'Ghost' is told by Whoopi Goldberg, the hookie pook girl, the medium, the scam artist...either (choice #1) I'm making all this up, or (choice #2) your husband is alive. No, she wasn't making all that up, she was getting her info from a spirit, and, no, her husband wasn't alive, he's dead and has no more a portion forever of anything that is done under the sun. Powerful emotional pull, however, and choice #2 is the easiest one to make, which 1) obligates her to continue trying to communicate with her dead husband, which 2) requires the continued services of the scam artist, the medium, the hookie pook girl. Through the filter of psychiatry/psychology the same 2 choices are given. You had your encounter with VP when you were 20 and now you're 54, yet not only did you go through the way corps, you stayed in twi for 10 more years or so. Psychiatry/psychology says that either (choice #1) you're really stupid, or (choice #2) you were controlled, they did this to you, you did not do this to yourself, you were brainwashed. No, you're not really stupid, and, no, you weren't controlled, you made choices based on your own interests at the time. Presented like that, choice #2 is again the easiest to accept, which 1) obligates you to continue learning about how you were controlled, which 2) requires the continued services of psychiatry/psychology, the scam artists. I posted recently that psychiatry/psychology has enough clout in today's culture that they are actually allowed to testify in court cases as "expert witnesses" as to why someone behaves as they do. They just explain away spirit possession and get really dangerous people off (like this guy who shot the congresswoman in Tucson) and cause harmless people (many times believers) to be incarcerated. But it doesn't stop there. What they would ultimately like to do is to require EVERYBODY to have a psych exam as soon as they can talk. They'll have their syndromes, their personality profiles, all their 'ducks in a row' and they will decide that some 2 year olds have "dangerous potential" based on that data, so they'll make said 2 year olds take meds that will prevent that so called dangerous potential. They'll likely decide that for children from families with long lines of Christianity in them. Dr. Mengela would have been proud. The mark of the beast will require a mark on the foreheads and hands of those people. Some think it will be a bar code; some think the number 666 will be on those body parts. But what if it's symbolic of a belief system? Our hands 'find to do' our deeds (Eccl.9:10a), and our foreheads are the 'shell casings' of our brains which house our beliefs. If the return happened right now, then psychiatry/psychology would play a big part in the mark of the beast, IMO.

quote: As regards the other manifestations of the spirit - I don't know that TWI got TIP correct, nor WoK or WoW, nor anything else. A person who looks to God and tries to do as would please Him probably operates WoK and WoW much more than they realize.How many times have you "just known" about something, or "just done" something that was exactly right - visited a friend in despair because you were passing the door, or rang just as someone needed an answer to prayer, or such like? You can't legislate for such things. You can't teach them. I agree that we operate word of knowledge and word of wisdom even discerning of spirits more than we realize. And that you don't have to be a pfal grad to do so.

I don't think twi's advanced class connected with people as well as the foundational and intermediate classes did. I once heard that out of all the people who took pfal foundational, that only 67% took the intermediate and only 33% took the advanced. In foundational pfal there was the anticipation of SIT at the end. Class instructors were very precise as to the protocol: what grads should or should not say to new students, the flip charts, the reference books shown to back up 4 crucified, etc. Despite the fact that the class was 34 hours over 3 weeks, most new students in classes I attended were focussed on getting through the class, sometimes even hanging on the edge of their seats. At every 12th session, especially when you had to stand up, there was this excitement in the air that was hard to ignore. Intermediate class was shorter, but it gave new students the opportunity to give back; to put themselves on the spot. Again, there was the anticipation of successfully doing TIP. Some people got self conscious. They always told grads of foundational pfal not to teach the class to the new students; let VP do that, but many did anyway. In intermediate, IMO, new students SHOULD have gotten some type of practice in their twigs with one or 2 others present beforehand. Anything to get them comfortable at least with the mechanics of speech part of it. But the advanced class was, to me, more of a social event than a class with practical instruction. The anticipation was just to get there, spend 2 1/2 weeks at a root location, finally get the name tag, etc. Waiting for the class to end was anticlimactic, as far as what you might do at the end of the class. I guess it would have been nice if you could, y'know, cast out a spirit or raise somebody from the dead before the class officially ended, but that didn't happen. It seems like you either trusted someone with your life or you didn't, regardless of whether they were an AC grad. I posted recently that Jesus MUST have given some instruction to his disciples about devil spirits; how to spot them, what to say or not say to them, and when to pull the trigger (cast them out). Same for raising the dead and other miracles or displays of power, but even in scripture the info is limited. Freely you have received, freely give. Stuff like that, yet it says the disciples rejoiced that they had this power and that it continued after Jesus' resurrection and ascencion. I haven't seen any church or ministry other than twi that seemed to do a BETTER job of connecting with their people on this stuff, but I really think twi's advanced class didn't connect as well as the other 2 classes. In VPs AC he read lots of OT records of prophets doing the healings, but no outpouring in the here and now. I can't write the teacher anymore, but I can write this.