johniam

quote: When did "liberal" become a religious belief? Religion is a belief system. Liberal is also a belief system. Religion, as a belief system, is discriminated against. Rules exist for religion(s) that don't exist for other belief systems. Evolution is a belief system. Funny, you can teach evolution in public schools, but you can't teach Christianity. Why the discrimination? Sounds like bigotry borne of education to me. As for liberal becoming a religious belief, I myself was raised in it. I attended Fountain Street Church in Grand Rapids, MI as a child. My mother told me if those kids in the neighborhood ask you what kind of church you go to, then you tell them it's a LIBERAL church! Ann Coulter has a book called 'Godless'. The book makes the case that liberalism is in fact, a religion. Its god is its ideals and its devil is...well, Christians. I guess. quote: In a Jan. 1981 newsletter to Ohio believers, state leader Bob Mirabito wrote: "Dr. Wierwille has personally been invited by President-Elect Ronald Reagan to the Inauguration Ball this January 20th. It is not one of the sattelite balls. There will be only 1,000 people in attendance". I didn't live in Ohio and I never heard that Reagan was personally acquainted with VP. I remember a bit in the way mag in which VP was at some gathering on the day of the inauguration. VP said he saw Joseph Coors there; knew him from somewhere. He said when Reagan showed up VP was standing 6' away from him. Said he looked tired. Said he prayed for God to bless him like He blessed men who loved His word. Didn't say he personally spoke to him. Later I found out that VP got to go to this event because a twi believer was in the military and was assigned to Washington DC and gave VP the 2 tickets he was given.

Back in early '08 when that campaign got going a spinoff sent a letter as much as telling people not to vote for Hillary Clinton or Mike Huckabee.

quote: Both times I was way disciple I was told in a group setting that speaking the word causes devil spirits actual, physical pain. Don't know about that, but in Luke 10:18 Jesus says he beheld satan as lightning fall from heaven. This means that Jesus, one guy, had caused such problems for the devil that he had to personally come among his daimons and daimonions and direct traffic for a time. Other than 'bruise thy head' from Gen 3 that's the extent of anyone causing pain to the devil. The interesting thing is, that the context of Luke 10 is the 70 returning to Jesus and rejoicing that they had such power over devils. Think about that one.

Of the choices given, several happened to me; I hitched a lot. I voted for uneventful because that was the mean. *I* was weird, so that one is moot. I got sexually assaulted AND robbed, but I also got picked up by people with drugs who took me more than 1,000 miles. Most people who pick up hitchers just want to talk to somebody and they expect you to listen. I did a lot of hitching with a guitar. A musical instrument, a pet, a female, are among that which might get you a ride from someone who normally doesn't pick up hitchers. I personally was not afraid to hitch. Between 1970 and 1984 which was the last time I did it, I must have covered 5 digits miles over all. The robbery and the sexual assault were the exception. No bad situations with police, either, to speak of. For twi to require a whole program of people to do it? Reminds me of that TV show the amazing race. Those people have to do weird things, some of which seem dangerous. They have a million dollar "carrot" dangling in front of them and they must have to sign a million waivers as well, but did twi have any legal problems from any hitching mishaps? Like Ken Barden? The lead accident? Don't recall ever hearing/reading about that.

I never heard of Dan Wilson. There was a recording in twi called Theophilus/Hope. Not sure if Theophilus was the name of the group or Hope, but lot of twi people seemed to own this record. It had a song called 'God fearing woman and a good Christian man' and a nice a capella version of that song 'Some glad morning'. Good jam. This group is now called 'Delighted in God'. I thought this 'Free life' song might have been from them. Good song.

Ham: When I got on GSC this morning there was a note to me saying that you wanted to engage in a conversation with me or something. I clicked on it and my PM is still not accessable to me. Don't know why. If you think this will be an involved conversation then maybe bring it up on the personal soapbox thread, the proverbial no man's land for off topic discussions.

The book of Genesis has one sex scandal after another in it. You can't read the book of Genesis to your children without having to explain what sex is to them. We bought a children's bible for our oldest child. It referred to OK sex as "making love", but sinful sex, like in Sodom, was called "have sex". Cute. I hitched a lot as a young person. Got robbed once, never got roughed up. You had to be flexible. One ride might be people you can relate to for maybe 10 miles and the next ride might be rednecks who take you 100 miles. Wondered why the rednecks even picked me up. I sponsored a family corps couple who went on lead. The woman told me it was challenging; said she "left a lot of 'little girl' back on those rocks". There is a believer from WA who regularly does lead type excursions to WA, and New Mexico. Some of our young folks went on one. They were geeked; loved it. Mostly guys. A way corps guy wrote a poem while on lead called 'love is brown'. We had it read aloud during our wedding ceremony. Not by the guy who wrote it. I can't even remember the word of prophecy done at our wedding, but I occasionally reread 'love is brown'.

I consider myself 'apolitical'. But to answer the question, yes. My family was democrat. They voted for Kennedy, LBJ, Humphrey, McGovern, and Carter. In 1976 I voted for Ford only because he was from Grand Rapids, MI, where I grew up. Nobody in twi ever directly told me "vote republican" or asked me about my political views, but it seemed that republicans were all Christians and democrats were all liberals. Other than '92 (Perot) and '96 (Clinton) I voted republican. I can't make any connect between either major party: they can both go to greedy extremes. I don't look to the government for my needs to get met, I look to God first. As long as I can get a job, the economy is good, no matter who the president is. But since getting into twi it has always seemed right to consider the republican first at election time.

quote: TWI openly hated and made fun of most of christianity unless some small point suited their ends. No, they made fun of traditions. Jesus did that, too (Matt. 15:1-9). quote: If God wants to make me pay thats completely up to him and I can live with that - No need; Christ already paid. Much Christianity does its damndest to convince their congregants that Christ didn't fully pay; that if you don't "get right with God" then you don't have eternal life, so you're at the mercy of whether the minister likes you or not. Any pot smoking 'fellowship' could duplicate that. Like Tony said, incorruptible seed means incorruptible seed. We already got right with God when we got born again. quote: "Paw" is very, very tolerant and patient and he tries to let things run with minimal interference. I agree with that. He has suspended me before and he can again, but this is, to my knowledge, the 3rd website of ex way people. The 1st, transnet, made this site look like a meditation room by comparison. Very abbrasive. The second, waydale, was successful and was really the forerunner to GSC, but it discontinued after 1 1/2 years. It's moderator used it to sue twi and my understanding is, it had to close down as a condition of whatever it won from the lawsuit. This site is 11 years old now. Some come and go, others are appalled, but some see it as a sort of lifeline to life after twi. But, like that lady said in the beginning of the movie 'the sword and the sorcerer', "it lives". Actually, there is a 4th site, exwayvision, made in anticipation of gsc closing down. But most who have left twi for whatever reason, seem to welcome a chance to tell their side of the story, especially since twi kept many of us systematically uninformed about many things. My advice: stick around for a bit. Maybe set a time limit like 3 mo, 6 mo, whatever. Either you will continue to feel like it's an insane asylum, or you may decide hey, these folks ain't so bad. quote: ...I know who Rascal is...she is a lovely woman and I have always admired her posts. It was the term "rascal wars" that had me stumped, but just like anything....GSC has a history. I tried to find some of the threads referenced, but gave up after a few minutes. It seemed specific so I was curious... for about a second. That 'a few big things I learned in pfal' thread has some stuff in there, but it's 89 pages. I couldn't tell you exactly where it is. Maybe it's for the best.

Wordwolf: Just because you post in anger doesn't mean that I do. I just feel the need to defend myself sometimes. Bramble: Rise to power????? That's as delusional as it gets. I ain't nobody. I'm just an ex wayfer with an opinion. You GIVE me fictitious power by overreacting to me. Tony and Geisha: Never heard this phrase (rascal wars) before, but Rascal is a female poster who has been on here for quite awhile and who has been interviewed by Pawtucket on Greasespot radio. She is usually outspoken and passionate about whatever she is interested in. She and I used to lock horns a lot. She has seemingly decided to NOT engage me since I returned here 4 months ago. I suspect she is watching from a distance. If that's not what Bramble is referring to, then I don't know. General: I don't have "supporters". Whitedove, Mike, Oldiesman, Chwester, and my wife seemed to agree on many things. JohnnyLingo (Clayjay) was not afraid to chime in at times, but he disagreed with me a lot, too. Bramble feels that it is not good that even 6 out of how ever many hundreds of posters there are who post at least once a week, that even 6 dissenters are allowed to speak. The reason they haven't "joined back up" is because they got sick of feeling like they were casting their pearls....yeah. This confirms something. I believe in the power of words. On another thread I spoke of taking a college class from a prof. Robert Beloof. He once told our class that a big vocabulary is a powerful weapon. Sometimes I post stuff because it comes up again and again in my mind and I want to see what effect it has on other people. Like I said, I ain't nobody. I don't seek public office. Never ran for student council. Don't want "supporters". My only bond with you all is time spent in twi. Sometimes I send emails to the STL post-dispatch; I've gotten several printed. My only strategy is to have the most impact with the fewest words. The only other forum I've posted on is the Grateful Dead's website. Again, I share a bond with them because I like the music they like, but I never followed the band on tour like many of them did. I can't bond with them beyond a certain point. In twi, I drank that koolaid for 18 years. Loved it, for the most part, until they got blatantly abusive. Here sometimes it's words against words. quote: My post was never ABOUT John. Did he mention babies and bathwater, or being tripped out? I was addressing a "HANDFUL OF PHRSASES" and the original poster SPECIFICALLY. I even quoted the post I was responding to. How did John ever enter the discussion? Really? quote: I agree. Some here HAVE thrown out the baby with the bath water. What a coincidence. The very post preceding yours. Looks to me like I mentioned baby and bathwater. THAT'S how I entered the discussion. quote: IMHO, it happens a LOT more now than it used to. It stands out so much more than that, even, because he's currently the only chronic derailer currently derailing. What's amazing about that is that we even had a previous chronic derailer post recently, and not derail a thread at all. Sounds like a self appointed damage control czar to me. quote: Once Johniam has decided some subject that's been posted is about him, the thread's pretty much shot. It's shot because the damage control czar shot it down, just like this thread, beginning with post number 18...RIGHT AFTER my first post, which was on topic. Who's REALLY a chronic derailer, WW?

quote: Ever notice how every thread j-iam posts on becomes ABOUT j-iam? They're not about me, they're about the blatant intolerance posters like Socrates and Waysider force onto the thread. I've tried just ignoring them but it doesn't work; they know that all they have to do is make an issue about some word or phrase I post, and by doing so, THEY are intentionally derailing the thread knowing it'll get blamed on me. I'm sure Lovematters isn't the only one who can see through that crap.

Yeah, if 969 was months then Methusela would have been 80 years old. I believe it's years, but I've thought lately about numbering our ages by days. Justin Hayward and John Lodge of Moody Blues did a side project called Blue Jays back in the 70s. One of the tracks on it was called 22,000 days. That's early 60s in years. I hit my 20,000th recently. I feel more like I've been alive 20K something than 56. Methusela had over 300,000 days if the 969 is years. Wow. Boggles the mind.

quote: Both in the mix right. But what's the focus? Are you doing what your doing out of greed (wanting greater and greater rewards) and possibly ego (I worked for my rewards harder than you did) or out of love (as God orders us to). Just because YOU do things out of greed and ego doesn't mean I do. Orders? Hmm. For God so loved the world that He ordered His only begotten son....charity is kind, and that's an ORDER! Doesn't seem to fit. Sounds like grudgingly and of necessity to me. Was THAT your attitude in twi?

quote: Here's where I stand: you want to drink Saint Vic's Kool-Aid, feel free to. Its your problem. But don't expect me to drink it and certainly don't try and ram it down my throat. I don't appreciate it. So anybody who disagrees with you is "ramming something down your throat"? Wonder what a psychiatrist would say about that.

quote: but isn't this one of the really big, difficult questions? What if you woke up one moment.. and found EVERYTHING you previously believed was just plain wrong.. what would you do? That doesn't ever happen in a moment, does it? Reminds me of my first acid trip. I was high and I had this new perspective on life and I understood what was REALLY going on and it was going to change history and so I wrote it all down and then....I slept. Dog gone it. I woke up and read what I had written down. Didn't make sense anymore. Other than that, I never had a major change in my outlook on ANYTHING that didn't require much time and thinking. quote: It must have been in about 1976,77,78...not sure... a group of Way Corps stayed with FellowLaborers one weekend on their way to some work assignment. They were all fired up about some new teaching that was being done for the Corps about eternal rewards and crowns or trophies at the Bema or some such thing. They spoke in a highly competitive manner about who was going to get he biggest and best and most bejeweled crowns. It really creeped me out, especially because no one else seemed to be bothered by it. I had never thought of it that way before. To my thinking, up to that point, you gave of yourself because it was what you chose in your heart to do. Doing the "right" thing, simply because you perceived it to be the right thing, not because you expected remuneration. In fact, my Mother, whom some of you knew personally, taught us when we were little kids, that to give because you expected something in return was a form of selfishness. I mean, isn't that why we all joined together for the FellowLaborer experience? Apparently not! That was a shocker. Jesus spoke of service, but he also spoke of rewards. In Matt. 19:27 Peter said behold we have forsaken all and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? Jesus then spoke of his disciples sitting on thrones judging the 12 tribes, and he spoke of receiving an hundredfold (houses, family, lands, etc.) and inheriting eternal life. Sure, the attitude of service is there, but so is the anticipation of rewards. They're both in the mix, right? Haven't you ever been working at a job and thought about what you would do with your next paycheck? I have. Sometimes we deal with other people, get let down, and think that God is no different than people. That God is just some corporate big shot in the sky who doesn't have time for "nobodys" like us. Remember that God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love. Both in twi and beyond. VP may have started twi, but he did NOT act as a "broker" for anyone's rewards. That was just you and God. Believe it!

I was diagnosed with type 2 4 1/2 years ago. What led to it was 3 symptoms: unexplained weight loss, extreme thirst, and blurry vision. They put me on metformin and for the first 2 months I took it as prescribed, but at times it made me feel stoned. I'd get light headed for no rhyme or reason. But the metformin DID address all those symptoms. So after 2 months I weaned myself off the metformin and replaced it with trichromium and vanadyl sulfate, both vitamin supplements. I don't even take them every day any more and the symptoms still haven't come back. I changed some eating/drinking habits, but not much.

Socrates: First of all, Lazarus wasn't in hell; he was in Abraham's bosom. That wasn't an "adjustment" it was a strategy. The Pharisees to whom Jesus was speaking believed in immediate punishments and rewards after death. Jesus wasn't addressing their beliefs about the after life, he was addressing their covetousness (v.14). Here, he was humoring them (answering fools according to their folly), but in other places, like Matt. 23, he pulled no punches. If you are speaking something you believe is absolute truth, you SHOULDN'T water it down or try to appease anyone. Waysider: Do I HAVE to be Jesus?

The first track on side one of the Guess Who's third album (American woman) is called 969 (the oldest man). Nice tune. No lyrics, kind of jazzy feel. The song was written by Randy Bachman, who would soon after leave the group to form BTO and take care of that business. But the song is obviously about Methusela. We don't really know if he was literally the oldest man EVER; just that he was the oldest man recognized by scripture. There were 1656 years between Adam and the flood. This means there could have been someone who lived longer than 969 years. Did living that long mean anything? Don't think so; Methusela died in the flood. Why mention this? Today when I got online one of the articles on yahoo home page was about the passing of the previously oldest person alive, 114 year old Walter Breuning of Great Falls, MT. His philosophy on how he lived so long was as follows.... • Embrace change, even when the change slaps you in the face. ("Every change is good.") • Eat two meals a day ("That's all you need.") • Work as long as you can ("That money's going to come in handy.") • Help others ("The more you do for others, the better shape you're in.") Then there's the hardest part. It's a lesson Breuning said he learned from his grandfather: Accept death. "We're going to die. Some people are scared of dying. Never be afraid to die. Because you're born to die," he said. The article goes on to say he worked for the railroad for 50 years, retired at 67, then continued working at the Shriners for 32 more years. Was married for 35 years, widowed in 1957, never remarried. Spent his last days in a retirement home in Great Falls. I'm not even half as old as this guy was and I have thought of myself as more and more of an "old person". The part of his philosophy that got my attention was 'work as long as you can'. I plan on doing just that. Nothing in the article about any faith in anything. Just thought it was an interesting read.

Quote: If your not gettting the results you want that means you need to adjust the communication. Jesus didn't feel the need to adjust HIS communication.

Quote: pull the eternal life block out of the Jenga tower of Christianity. GOD has not pulled it. Oops.

quote: But like a stain once you get it - stains love company (I guess). Wasn't there a sing along the way song that made mention of 'sin stains'? And who can forget Satori's 'ectoplasm stains: I've tried soaking them out, I've tried scrubbing them out'. Not trying to trivialize the post. Yeah, speak your mind. That's the ticket.

True sailing is dead. Dead as a door stop. Or is it nail? STOP NAILING ME!!!!!!

Speaking of Bob Richards, I recall that he was exposed to twi in some way. Maybe he was taking pfal or something and either LCM or VP dissed him about something. After that he was gone. LCM said "too many Wheaties". If they did something like that to Hayes Gahagan...just wondering. In the fall of 1978 I lived in Columbia, MO and we all had to help this guy who was running for state rep. Went door to door for the guy. He lost, but during that same time we heard about similar political activity in Kansas where a twi believer was running for office. Some doors just never seemed to open for twi people.

Well, good. I've progressed from a wierwille apologist to a whipping boy to a polarity responder. That's encouraging. However, I still prefer son of God.

quote: Polarity Response is a behavior unfamiliar in name but not in most everyone’s experience. Whatever the issue or opinion, the polarity responder takes the opposite view. Disagreement is automatic. Sounds like you're accusing me of what you yourself do. So much for you keeping me on my toes. Accusing me of automatic disagreement is like the democrats accusing anyone who disagrees with Obama of being racist. Doesn't work there and won't work here.