johniam

quote: I come here because this is the one place whee I can talk about what happened with a group of people who understand my experiences in a cult without a lot of judgement. One place - check where I cvan talk about what happened - check with a group of people who understand my experiences - check without a lot of judgement - umm...

No. If twi is the devil that would make those guys 5 star generals (daimon). If...

The devil is real. And, like God, he gets downplayed and misrepresented a lot. Many Christians seem to believe that God gives it all. If your loved one dies unexpectedly it must be the will of God. The devil is real. Actually, the dead song friend of the devil is playing "God's advocate" if you will. Compare it with Stones' sympathy for the devil. In that song, the devil is in the first person trash talking at humanity daring anyone to try to knock him off his perch. In the dead song this 'friend of the devil' is a fugitive from jail, he's got a broken heart over a woman, and he considers it a good day if he gets any sleep. With friends like that.... Or it could be a spiritual version of Stockholm syndrome. The captor is the devil and you will suffer for him and you will like it! Now comes the twi comparisons.

People of the dome. Sounds like a 1950s B horror movie.

My wife had a wow brother who was saying he was healed of diabetes, was going to trash his insulin. The others in the family cautioned him. The limb coordinator talked some sense into him. This was in 1986. Glossolalia sounds like trinity; a non biblical term that's supposed to be relevant, but isn't.

quote: The other way is to waste time and energy picking fights with Christians who should be doing other things, and pretending the fight mattered, while we take time away from doing something that could actually get somewhere. I think some of that came from the idea that "everything's life or death" plus "the offensive stand on the word is vital to moving the word over the word in our day and time". I've even seen trinitarians use that tactic on twiers.

quote: Of course, I haven't come out and denounced myself as a non-Trinitarian and stated that I don't believe JC is God. It's not an issue coz I don't make it one and it's clear that both God and JC accept both myself and my fellow (Trinitarian) Christians. So why should I cause dissension? I left twi in '94, got hired that same year at a warehouse. During breaks I sat at a table with non twi Christians. I made up my mind that I would NOT give my twi based input on 2 subjects: the trinity and abortion. I got along with those guys fine. I even talked with them about SIT a few times. No problem. I agree, it's not our duty before God to just p people off.

What kind of girl is named "Rembert"?

Believe what you want, but I believe I'm born again. I'd rather be in "denial" of a scandal sheet, than of the truth. Now I understand why some of you behave as you do.

Yeah, but Mussolini didn't get anybody born again. Hitler inspired people too, but, the twi spinoffs are biblical, not sex clubs. VP may have been a fraud, morally, although he hinted at that repeatedly, but his biblical teachings are still thriving.

I've had times when I knew they were there. I think the fear of spirits by twi was relatively recent. John Lynn said at my advanced class that he hoped he never saw one again. Meaning it was possible. I heard that at the 1983 AC at Rome City the speakers repeatedly told people not to believe every body they heard was born of the wrong seed really was. I think some things LCM said in AOS were true. 1) Literally we're not soldiers OR athletes, we're BELIEVERS. Athletes is more relevant because we don't kill our adversaries like a soldier would, we try to not let them attack us. 2) The dance routines portray different attacks the adversary does to us. I don't know if there are only 6, like LCM said, but I think the devil attacks people (seeking whom he may devour). But, yeah, during the 90s LCM was seeing spirits EVERYWHERE. Reminds me of that Nickelodian cartoon 'Fairly odd parents'. One of the teachers in Timmy Turner's school is sure that fairies exist and obsesses about them and every so often he will spazz out and shout "FAIRIES!!!" That's what LCM was doing there for awhile. One time he said something like...he get nervous when he thinks about devil spirits because the devil is a big shot and...he's after ME...cause I am his biggest foe, but be assured little flock, I, LCM, your leader, am staying the course. He'll never hurt you. He didn't say those exact words, but I inferred that from one of his rants. Poor guy. Whatta sap. As for dealing with spirits, I like what Steve said. Call upon God. Ask for His help.

When I think of leadership, I can't help but think of John Lennon. He wasn't as good a guitar player as George (George taught him how to play the guitar beyond basic chords), and he wasn't as good a singer/songwriter as Paul, but without his leadership, the Beatles don't happen (as we know them). I'll give 2 examples of his leadership: 1) When the Beatles first met and called themselves the Quarrymen, 1957 or so, John had already taken an art elective in grammar school. He was adamant that they consider themselves as "serious artists". Today the word 'artist' is casually thrown around, but back then you didn't call yourself an artist unless you were DiVinci, Monet, Michaelangelo, Bach, Beethoven, or somebody like that. A bunch of teens in a skiffle band? Really? Yet John was very serious about this and it had to have shaped what eventually became the Beatles. 2) After they signed their first contract with EMI they had a chance to come to the USA roughly one year before they actually did. You'd think a bunch of early 20s British guys would love to come here at that or any time, but John Lennon said no. His reasoning was that every British band who came to the USA without ever having a #1 single IN the USA was never heard from again. He wouldn't budge. Then finally 'I wanna hold your hand' got to #1 in the billboard top 100 in January of '64 and the rest..... VP had that kind of leadership. Bud Morgan was already a pro. He wouldn't have promoted twi comparing VP to Bill Russell and Al Oerter if he'd felt coerced. In the fellowship I attend there are 3 guys who were in the military. Never been yelled at by any of them and they have nothing to say about VP except that I guess John Sommerville thought the way corps were wimps and told VP that. That might explain the running in place in the mud. I bet football players even at the high school level have had to do that. VPs leadership inspired just too many people from too many different backgrounds to just be a "fraud".

Let's see... Peony and roses of sharon in the back yard. Crepe myrtles, lilacs, dogwood, almond bush, and red roses in the front. They're not all in full bloom yet, just buds and some flowers, but last weekend was the first time this year I mowed the lawn. Felt good to do that.

quote: I'm sure I am at this juncture more partisan towards anti way content. I can accept that criticism. However, I feel it is an adequate and healthy balance compared to the past decades where I was blind and pro twi. You don't bother me with your viewpoints including any pro twi slant. I do try to answer you and challenge you with thought-through content and comments if I disagree. I think we can all do that. Sometimes I think of this place as a sort of impromtu think tank. Joe Coulter's been around forever. He was the one who told LCM about Donnie Fugit at U of Kansas wasn't he? I really don't remember seeing that in the AC film, but I got yelled at every so often by twi people, and by teachers as far back as elementary school. Most of the time didn't like it. Made my attitude worse.

I wasn't at AC '79, but I saw the film twice; once at Emporia and once at a local setting. VP seemed to be in fine rhythm. I can see why they used that film at root locations. I'm glad they left out the part with the camera man tirade. Waysider. TRY to put yourself in my shoes for once. I was in twi for 18 years. I benefitted from it. I still prefer to fellowship with people who do it basically the same way. I'm not afraid to go to churches. I regularly go to fellowships and get blessed. Then I come here and it's the same robotic whining and such. Linda is right. I DO have issues with twi. I like being able to express my issues with twi here like everybody else. You say it's usually my posting tactics that draw criticism, but there would be no "posting tactics" without the POSTS. No! You're splitting hairs here. You and some others attack ME. The way you do that attacks everything that comes from me: posts, tactics, and everything else. Some of you are so partisan that you can't even admit that twi ever did anything right. I don't think you're fooling too many people. "Tactics, not opinions." Yeah, right.

Lucky you. My cat drinks out of the toilet.

The same guy who told me about VP going through the rows and casting out oppression/depression also told me that the spirit of O/D would make you feel like somebody was pressing their finger tips down on the top of your head. This reminds me of 2 things: 1) About a year later I was at Busch stadium watching the Cardinals play the Pirates. The Cardinals weren't doing well at first. I felt like somebody was pressing their finger tips down on the top of my head. So I prayed for God to cast the spirit of O/D out of the stadium. Not 1 minute later Ted Simmons hit a home run. Cardinals won the game. My wife is always pointing out the flawed logic of "after, therefore, because of" but that WAS the sequence of events. 2) Fast forward to 1987. I was in Universal studios in Hollywood, CA. They were herding us from one presentation to another. We were about to see a demonstration of stunt persons in a western setting. There was this clown looking guy who seemed to be working for the studios. He was waving people this way and that way where he wanted them to sit. Suddenly the clown guy whacks this bald guy on the top of his head, then turns away and continues waving people to the seats. Me and the guy I was with were already seated when this happened and the bald guy just looks around like WTF. Later the clown guy tried it again, but the person he was going to hit turned quickly in the clown's direction. The clown guy had to abort. Tried to look nonchalant. Wasn't discovered, but it was kind of amusing.

Yes, but we did it.....together

Ham: PFAL '77 was held at Ball State U Muncie, IN. AC'79 was at Ohio U at Athens, OH. Ohio State is in Columbus, OH. I just wondered if VP did walk through every row of seats in that place like I heard.

It's March Madness time. NCAA basketball. Excitement is in the air. One team still in entering tonight's games was Ohio University. They were a 13th seed. Did well to get to the sweet 16. Lost tonight to top seeded North Carolina, but took them to overtime. Then it dawned on me that this is the same Ohio U that AC '79 was held at. I didn't go to the class, but I heard things. One thing I heard was...that when VP got there he felt that something was wrong so he walked through the entire arena, row by row, then cast out the spirit of oppression/depression. Wrong righted. I also heard that prior to this, Ohio U had a really BAD home record. Well, 33 years later they seem to have a good record. Did anybody else hear this? About VP casting out spirits? I'm just curious.

quote: Now that we choose to speak at least explicitly sexually.. where is Johniam.. Somebody actually WANTS me to post???? I'd have never thought eet! OK, you asked for it. Why the double standard? A few weeks ago I get flamed for mentioning an 18 inch turd, but if Steve Lortz has to use stationary under duress, somehow it's insightful. BTW I was once at home with no TP and I used a maxi pad. Dammit it felt comfortable. Witnessing? I've posted this before howbeit years ago. I was a wow in a college town (Rolla, MO). It was spring so I'd been wow for several months. I was totally burned out on wow that day. My witnessing was definitely grudgingly and of necessity. No John Lynn one liners; no cheerful giving; everybody I witnessed to I'd say, "Hey, ya wanna come to a twig"? Most people just said "NO!" and walked away quickly. But that was OK cause I did MY job. I got to an intersection and this guy was walking briskly. The encounter went like this... Me: Hey, ya wanna come to a twig? The guy: Uh, what's that? Me: We study the bible. The guy: Oh, cool! I've been looking for something like that. Look, I'm late for a class now, but my name is Chuck and I live in the 2nd frat house from the end down the street and I'll be back at 5:30 bye. (whoosh) The guy took the AC before I did. The guy lives in Salt Lake City with his family now and is with the group formerly called Garner Ted Armstrong. I visited them 3 years ago. It was pleasant.

I didn't know LCM ever taught that. I'm not surprised; I just didn't know. I've always thought that was one big negative for denominational churches. They only taught that so they could control their flock with the fear of hell. That's why ACDCs 'Highway to hell' became such an anthem. Let's rattle their cages by pretending hell is a party place. Scare tactics don't work in the long run anyway.

I don't mind drinking green beer, but Burger Kings are serving green ketchup. Yuck!

quote: I think of those news reports you see of someone who's been found to have committed some heinous deed without previous detection. The neighbors all say, "Gee, he seemed like such a nice guy. I never had a clue..." Uh Huh...Just better at flying under the radar than your average miscreant. This sounds suspiciously like LCMs "reasonable spiritual suspicion", which implied that if you're really walking with God, you should be able to tell if someone is gay or otherwise possessed. So just what is this "radar" that's supposed to tell you if someone is going to commit a heinous deed in the future? Reminds me of my 10th grade social studies teacher who turned out to be Norman Bates. Boring teacher, first hour. Later became the hockey coach. Respected by faculty and students alike...that is, until he picked up a prostitute, drove her to a church parking lot, and stabbed her 55 times, one of which broke her sternum. Pleaded self defense at first . The guy's name is Richard Jensen. That show 'Hard copy' did an episode about him in 1991 when it happened. Elite? Naw.

Back in '74 I was hitching from MI to Fla. I got dropped off on the Fla turnpike at 4AM or so. It isn't legal to hitch on the turnpike but at 4AM not much risk so I stuck my thumb out and a car stopped. I go up to it and the windows were steamed up jeez. I walked past them and they drove past me again. I finally got a ride, but what morons. I heard stories from truckers about couples who would drive their cars in the next lane slightly ahead of the truck and put on a show for the guy's viewing pleasure. Yeah, as far as things that were said, we were in our own world. I did have one limb leader who made an issue about not wanting to hear any believers say GD. It's almost like, if we swear then these unbelievers will think we're cool and be more receptive to our message. Might work once out of ten, but backfire the other times.