johniam

quote: If your beliefs are worth keeping, then a thorough exploration of them will DEEPEN YOUR FAITH. If something ain't broke, I don't need to "fix it". To me, this is a time for black and white thinking. There's God / there's the devil. There's the wisdom of God / there's the wisdom of this world. Pretty much everything you all are saying is from the wisdom of this world. If something can't even pass THAT smell test, then why bother with an exploration of it, thorough or through?

quote: Critical thinking is a little harder to come by when you are a walking encyclopedia of VPW "Lifelines" quotes. It's all but impossible when you're convinced VP is the devil!

quote: If TIP and Prophesy are really "spiritually energized", why is knowledge of scripture or scripture-related phraseology required to produce it? I just think that's a lame question, but here's another one. If parting the Red Sea was really energized by God, then why did Moses have to lift up his rod and stretch his hand over the sea (Ex. 14:16)? Here's another one. If capturing Jericho was really energized by God, then why did the warriors of Israel have to circle the city 7 times and blow trumpets (Josh 6:4)? Look! God does what God does and people do what people do. Why is this such a difficult concept? If this is how you think, then you need never run out of silly arguments. If God exists, then why is there air? If the devil exists, then why are there cars? Hey, don't let me stop you. I guess I DO have time for this after all.

In 1920 a Cleveland Indians player died as a result of being hit in the head by a pitched ball. Sometimes pitches go where the pitcher didn't intend for it to go. Pro sports in America have so much money behind them that some athletes get tempted to do the unthinkable. In the beginning of that Bruce Willis movie 'The last boy scout' a football player is running with the ball and he pulls a gun out and shoots 2 or 3 would-be tacklers, then scores a touchdown and shoots himself. Doug Flutie, a retired NFL quarterback, once said he thought it possible that a defensive player could commit a premeditated murder and there'd be no way to prove it. For the most part, pro sports are allowed to police themselves. The players seem to have their own code on what is acceptable and not. It would be a shame if too many players crossed the line and rules watered down the sport, but I suppose it's possible.

quote: Here's a stray thought that passed through my mind: If TIP and Prophesy are really "spiritually energized", why is knowledge of scripture or scripture-related phraseology required to produce it? Uh, because scripture is the basis for all things spiritually energized. At least, all things from God. Duh. Bet you get a lot of stray thoughts like that. Yeah, they should have called it 'stray thoughts by Jack Handy'.

Sorry, not worth my time.

God wrote the 10 commandments in stone with His finger...yet Christ is the end of the law. Explain what YOU mean by "God doesn't change".

quote: If it had been a genuine "manifestation of spirit", not only would none of this mattered, it would not have been necessary to change anything. I think we can all recall a few scriptures that speak to the timelessness and unchanging nature of God's Word. So...we should all be looking for the school of Tyrannus???

Raf: Yes, VP totally signed off on Earl's class, but I met Earl a time or 2 in the 70s and I've seen him recently. He never came off to me as abrasive in any way, in person or in his class, plus I don't recall anyone here on GSC ever calling him verbally or sexually abusive. Two things... 1) One complaint on GSC which has surfaced in multiple contexts is that many times, people in authoritative positions in twi were not trained to handle people problems at all, so maybe they actually did walk with God, maybe they lucked out, or maybe people got hurt on their watch. I'm not just talking about VP or Earl, I'm talking about twig cordos, wow cordos, class cordos, etc. The first time I took Earl's class, one of the excellor session leaders acted like you were out of fellowship forever if your tongue was 10 seconds and your interpretation was 9. Earl and VP never came off to me like that. Plus... 2) VPs class was in 1967 when the ministry was smaller. VP was only concerned that people did it back then. By 1980 or so, when Earl's class came, there were thousands of people still coming into twi. Then the concern was more on quality. I can see that, but IMO timing the interpretations and stuff like that did not improve the overall quality of anything; it just gave folks one more thing to grumble about.

quote: Craig taught in his foundational class that eve had sex with the devil who had come into concretion as a beautiful woman. Adam consented to the idea. Don't most men?... The research was half baked and to top it off he used half of Michangelo's The Fall and Expulsion from Garden of Eden (which is from the Sistene Chapel) as an illustration. He also said that it used to be common knowledge but had been lost - that's what the painting proved. I think he blamed the adversary for hiding this information. Here's what the full painting looked like. Remember, he used that movie 'Stayin alive' as "research" that his AOS numbers were legit. That was a major mistake in twi, IMO. They tried to be like the world in some thing JUST to be like the world. One time they had their own news wire service. What the hell for????

It was late 70s early 80s. Burton's class taught the same TIP material VPs did. IMO they thought they were making it better in quality by timing everybody's tongue, then comparing it to the interpretation, but the leaders of the excellor sessions sometimes got all gestapo on you about stuff. Yeah, sure, that would really "inspire" me to bring forth edification exhortation and comfort. The older grads just didn't dig it. I imagine it got worse after 1994.

quote: They might. Of course, the instructions were inconsistent. The Intermediate was VERY specific about the translations matching almost exactly- same number of natural breaking points, and the number of seconds being close to exact. That's contradictory with being a paraphrase into a slang, since the timing would vary widely. Earl Burton's class seemed to lead to that, but VPs class was lighter. VP always said that the interpretation was by inspiration, not revelation, suggesting that you didn't have to be so precise, but in EBs class you were timed during excellor sessions. Not much fun.

I was thinking of starting a thread called 'What would VP have called it today?', but I'll try to sneak it into this thread instead. Sort of related. OK, during pfal intermediate class he was trying to encourage us to not worry so much about being politically correct; just use your own vocabulary and let it flow. One example he used was a woman from the south whose interpretation of a tongue was, something like, "I hollered and I hollered, but you would not hear". That it was OK to use personal phrases like that. If that were done today someone might say, "I texted and I texted, but you did not read it", maybe like that. The only other thing I thought of was his use of the word 'hookiepookism', meaning, basically, some form of the occult. The current politically correct term for that is 'paranormal'. Hmm. Para means along side of, not at cross purposes with. So occult stuff is not at cross purposes with what is normal, eh? Interesting.

This reminds me of a joke. You've probably heard it, but... A hippie, the pilot, a priest, and Henry Kissinger were on a plane when the engine failed. As the plane was coming down, they all realized there were only 3 parachutes in it. The priest said, "I'm a man of God, so I should get one of the parachutes", and he put one on and jumped out. Then Henry Kissinger said, I'm a VIP in the US government AND I'm the most intelligent man in the world", and he put one on and jumped out. The pilot said, Who should get the last parachute"? The hippie said, "It doesn't matter; the most intelligent man in the world just jumped out of the plane with my backpack". No charge.

Getting better on the Europe game. I can do countries/hard in under 2 minutes and capitals/hard in 1 1/2 minutes. But let me wait 24 hours before doing it again and let's see what I remember.

Wow! I just got a perfect score on the 50 states game. The hardest were the first 2; Utah and Tennessee with no bordering states or coasts. Missouri was tricky with only KY and TN to work with, but somehow I did it.

Never seen that before. They say they started counting from 10,000 BC and that they figure there have been 106 billion people who existed up to the present day. I've never heard any biblical based estimate of all time population EXCEPT...John Hendricks had a seminar about the hope. In it he thought there have been 20 billion people all time. Since the bible starts human life at 4,000 BC, then I guess the number would be smaller than the 106 billion worldometer guesses. Either way, who cares? BTW John Hendricks only mentioned that "statistic" to support his belief that, ultimately, there are positions of authority there for the taking in the world which is to come. Just get committed and, by God, you'll be a CEO in heaven. He didn't say those exact words; that's just the drift I got from them. Jesus did promise his disciples they'd get rewards and sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel...something like that. Who knows?

Last time I looked at a map of Europe, Russia was on it. I did OK on western Europe, but all those little countries...whew!

Twinky, I couldn't begin to place the sections of Britain on a map. In grade school I was taught Canadian provinces but that's it, internationally. Here's an interesting fact. The state of Wyoming ranks 9th in size, but 50th in population. Even Washington DC has more people in it than the entire state of Wyoming.

Second try - 96 - 4 miles.

88.6 - 14 miles Not bad.

He's what? 64?

Take another 10 hits of acid WW. Maybe then you'll make sense to me, lol. You're the one who's derailing this thread.

So where was the "quality control" when Jesus sent out the 12 two by two...or the 70?

lol Charles Manson and Jim Jones could have been priests somewhere.