johniam

Witnessing and OVERshepherding

Maybe it's a coincidence circumstantially, but not spiritually. When was the movie made? I remember in 1985 Glen Frey had a song out called 'You belong to the city'. This song got a ton of airplay for exactly 2 months right after the ROA. How would you have felt if you just came off the WOW field and heard lyrics like... When you left this town you were on the run, trying to get away from the things you done. Now you're back again and you're feeling strange, so much has happened; nothing has changed. I really don't think Glen Frey ever heard of TWI, nor could have known about the schedule of WOWs. But I didn't think it was a coincidence.

Thanks, guys. Thanks a lot. Right now I don't ever want to SEE another brownie as long as I live!

My daughter's HS did a production of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'. During the world series scene the guy who played McMurphy said "All right! Pujols is up! They're gonna beat the Red Sox butts!" which was met with a combo of laughter and groans. One more night and they could've watched it for real.

Don't want to waste a thread for this so this is close enough..... Ted Kennedy dies and goes to see St. Peter... St. Peter: Come in my office and have a seat. Ted K: (notices a whole bunch of clocks on shelves) What are all these clocks for? St. P: Those are lie clocks; everybody has one. Every time someone lies, the clock moves. Ted K: Whose clock is that? It doesn't look like it's ever moved. St. P: Oh, that's Mother Teresa's. She never ever lied; not even once. Ted K: What about that one; it looks like it's moved maybe 4 times? St. P: That's Abe Lincoln's. He told some lies when he was a kid, but that was pretty much it. Ted K: So where's John Kerry's clock? St. P: Oh. That one is in God's office; He uses it for a ceiling fan.

Wow! I'm still kinda freaking out. I didn't think the Cardinals would surely win, but I didn't think they'd get SWEPT! During the regular season I thought the Red Sox were a team in disarray. They tried to get Arod, then they didn't, then they tried to get rid of Manny, but they couldn't, then they got rid of Nomar and all these ESPN "experts" mocked them saying they got nothing from that trade. But they proved everybody wrong. Now all these people in Boston will have to go into therapy because they DON'T have the curse anymore. They are without an identity. Congratulations Boston team and fans!!! Few days ago ESPN reported that both the Red Sox AND the Cardinals had each won 2 world series' during election years (sox - 1912, 1916 / cards - 1944, 1964) and that all 4 elections went to the Democratic candidate. But this too can be reversed like the so called curse. Did anybody else see a sign right after the game that said "I forgive Bill Buckner"? Awwwwwww.

It ain't over yet. True, the Red Sox have clearly out hit and out pitched the Cardinals to this point. Back in game 1 that play by Manny was pretty comical. But how would you like to have been Keith Foulke? Your team was ahead 7-2, then it was 7-7, then it was 9-7, and now it's 9-9 because of a stupid play and you have to pitch to Pujols, Rolen, and Edmonds with 2 on 1 out! That was the ball game right there; he got it done. Suppan's base running may not have been as funny to watch, but it was just as stupid mentally and embarassing for the team. Cards couldn't overcome that. That's been the difference. I don't believe in curses, but I believe in momentum. Right now the Red Sox have it and they're going to try like crazy to finish it off tonight. The only things the Cardinals have going for them is the home crowd and the fact that they won 105 games. If that's good for 1 win, it might be good for 2. Then if they can somehow win game 6 at Fenway, how confident will Red Sox nation be on devil's night with the "curse" still hanging over their heads? This is quite within the realm of possibility. I don't believe in curses, but I believe in positive and negative believing. I can still remember 1986. Game 6. Boston is 1 out away from winning the world series. Shea stadium crowd is dead quiet. First 1 hit, then another, then Bill Buckner bewildered. That was just too weird!

Hey, remember how LCM was saying that you WILL GET POSSESSED by just reading waydale/gsc. That's about as hokey as those movies they used to show us about VD in the 60s where you could get VD by bumping into someone who had it.

I took the AC in '84 at Emporia. VP was there for some of it. He showed us these old films of PFAL bloopers. This was in '63 and he was saying, "Welcome to the internationally famous class on power for abundant living." He did 4 takes in the film. Weird thing was, he was laughing at it like he thought it was stupid.

I believe #1 and #2 because it makes sense the way it was taught. The reason that stuff was in PFAL was to support the teaching that the written word is perfect if God is perfect. True, nobody misses salvation by not knowing either of those things, but nobody misses it by KNOWING them, either. I believe #3 because of the verse in Matthew 12:32 where it says no forgiveness neither in this world nor that which is to come. Both God and the devil need people to be committed to them and serve them. I'm sure the devil penalizes those who waver on their committment to him. I don't believe God does this. TWI calling it "born of the wrong seed" was always a figure of speech. The devil has power. He ain't God, but from our human point of view, he (the devil) can certainly seem overwhelmingly powerful. I have issues with #4. Not once does the word say ANY believer is possessed. Both Acts 16 and Acts 19 have unbelievers who are called possessed. The closest it comes to calling a believer possessed is a) satan entering into the heart of Judas Iscariot when Judas left to betray Jesus. and b) Ananias of Acts 5 being told by Peter, "why hath satan filled (pleroo) thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost?" right before he died. (I used to hear this crap that Ananias died because the temperature of believing caused it or something. From Acts 5:2 it could be argued that Ananias was trying to infiltrate leadership with a bribe and Peter caught him and the spirits that were influencing him had enough control of his life that they killed him when they saw they would get no more "mileage" out of him in this situation.) I don't think it's far fetched to say that devil spirits can influence believers. They obviously did Judas, but if God in His word doesn't call believers possessed, perhaps we shouldn't either.

This series looks now like it could go either way; 7 18 inning games. The Red Sox have got to have some serious team focus to come back from 0-3. Two extra inning games to boot. They got contributions from the whole lineup. I did feel that Ortiz was the right choice for MVP. But as a Cardinal fan, it feels good right now because they looked so lame in both the 2000 and 2002 NLCS's and this year's Houston team IMO is way better than the Mets and Giants teams that beat them in those other NLCS's. The Cardinals have good momentum just like the Red Sox. Even a marginal baseball fan has got to be really excited about this series. In a related matter, I read something awhile back that angered me. Elston Howard was the first black player the Yankees ever signed. He was originally an outfielder, but the Yankee organization made him a catcher while he was still in the minors. Could it be that Mickey Mantle did not want to risk being shown up by a black player at that time? And since the Yankees already had a "pretty good" catcher named Yogi Berra, could it be that they switched Elston to catcher for the purpose of delaying, if not eliminating the time Elston would get to the majors? Didn't work. EHs rookie year was 1954, 3 years after Mantle's. He was AL MVP in 1963. AND as a late season acquisition by the Red Sox in '67, his contribution very well may have been what gave Boston the pennant that year. Remember? Boston finished the season 1/2 game ahead of Detroit, 1 game ahead of Minnesota, and the White Sox were hanging around till the end as well.

This series will probably get really political. John Kerry's home state against a team whose owner is a regular contributor to the Bush campaign. I hear the Boston media is already starting to trash talk. I remember the '67 series. Game 7 in Boston. The Cardinals were all but running on fumes by then. The front page headline in the Boston Globe read 'LONDBERG AND CHAMPAGNE', Londberg being Boston's 22 game winning ace who started that game. Cardinal players were PO'd at the headline. Be careful, now.

DB: quote: In my seven years in twi (1972-1979) I never saw or heard any really usable or practical teaching in how to walk by the spirit. I find that hard to swallow. Believing isn't usable? Are you afraid all the time? Doesn't sound like it. Righteousness isn't usable? Do you condemn yourself all the time? God doesn't speak in a still small voice? Do you usually get your revelation while listening to Metallica? That's just the tip of the iceberg. quote: I moved away from twi doctrine first (because I knew no one who really was being freed from their old man), before I found out about the rampant corruption among the "teachers". How on earth do you figure you can know if someone is "really being freed from their old man"? Sounds like you're looking at peoples' flesh in order to gauge their spirituality. You couldn't possibly know about my relationship with my old man OR my new man without revelation. Romans 10:9&10 ISN'T usable? Reading lots of scripture isn't usable? SIT isn't usable? Sorry, but you lost me.

Go Cards! Ayyy Mstar. We got ourselves a date, huh? Cards/Sox. Interestingly, the last 7 times the Cards were in the WS it went 7 games and the last 4 times the Sox were in ditto 7 games. Congratulations on overcoming a 0-3 hole. Dennys must've been open....Damon got a grand slam! And we beat the rocket! This is going to be GOOD!

Saw REM last night. Tickets were $40 and $65. A little pricy, eh? Good show, IMO. I wish they had done less new stuff and more old, but they played 2 hours and had a really cool light show. I saw a video of them from the 80s and Michael Stipe moves around on stage a lot more now than he did then. He went to HS in STL even though he's originally from GA. Don't know if I'll pay that much to see them again, but it was a good concert.

One more thing. Someone said something about issuing warnings. Nothing wrong with issuing warnings. Jesus did it. Sometimes he did it because the evil people were trying to bug him and discredit him; other times he did it just to make a point, but if your warning is credible you don't need to slander or insult anyone. Are we adults? Or are we Angelica on 'Rugrats'? Oldies said he thought some people may be throwing the baby out with the bath water and some of you want to 'stone him to death' verbally. Not very credible.

Alf: quote: I asked earlier "and what are we guilting you out of with this agenda, j-am???? what, praytell?? overfond memories of your youth, perhaps??" You and some of the others are trying to make us feel ashamed (guilty) because we still value some of VPs teachings. You have the same 'we're the only ones who are right' mentality that you accuse TWI of.

Some of you guys ARE TOO just putting words in Oldies' mouth. All he said in his opening post is that he still believes in the word taught by TWI. Not VPs writings, not even the KJV, the word; that which God will back up when acted upon. Yet you continue to slander him. quote: ... I was taught the Wuuuuuurd. I got mine, it doesn't matter how many were hurt." Geeze, what a j@ckfoot. So...do you ration your intake of food because of all the starving children all over the world? Or do you just dig in and eat and say "I got mine." LCM said some heartless things, but one thing he said that still rings true is..."I don't have time to shed a tear for every person out there who is suffering." Nobody does. One sure way to sniff out fraud is when someone goes way out of their way to guilt me just because I don't agree with their agenda.

D miller: quote: I do not see a "politically correct" monument erected where the 10 Commandments used to be, but given the crap we are being fed by the liberals, and their insatiable desire to have everything their way, and "damn the torpedoes" -- it would not surprise me one bit, if it came to pass. Couple years or so ago I started a thread called 'the 10 platitudes'. This was independent of any prior or subsequent court rulings. What it was was...in the elementary school that 2 of my children attended at the time there were words in 3 foot tall letters all over the walls of the school. Can't even remember them exactly. Words like 'citizenship' 'responsibility', etc. All perfectly good concepts, but no power there. Evan, to answer your comment, THOU SHALT NOT KILL is forcible; 'citizenship' is not. There's a God, a real live God behind THOU SHALT NOT KILL. Only a dictionary behind citizenship and those other words. This is an attempt to replace (water down) the 10 commandments with political correctness. If the commandments should be out of govt buildings, then those hollow words that no elementary school student can even spell should be off those walls.

Garth: All I said was that having the 10 commandments in a building doesn't endorse religion.

Raf: During Reagan's funeral days it was brought up that he believed that God put him in the presidency for a purpose. This HAD to affect decisions he made as President. Does this mean to you that his presidency was now flawed? Just how do we separate a person from their governing values?

Garth: quote: I too would be against litigated non-belief just as much as litigated belief. So you think having the 10 commandments in a govt building is litigated belief? Not if it's not written in the laws.

Long gone: There's a difference between laws and forcible right and wrong. Religions are laws of the heart whereas the laws you refer to are laws of practice. For instance, I could be unscrupulous and law abiding at the same time. If I don't actually kill someone, I can't be arrested no matter how much I believed any individual really deserved to be killed. For that matter, having the 10 commandments in a govt building isn't going to guarantee their being practiced any more than if they were in a church. They're just written words. I don't mind having them in a govt building as a symbol of the desire for justice even though I know perfect justice can't happen in an imperfect world. So symbols don't matter anymore, eh? OK take off your wedding rings and send them to me so I can urinate on them and send them back to you. Whaaaaat? It's "just a symbol". Name a better symbol for justice and uprightness than the 10 commandments.

Garth: quote: Only if you campaign for Kerry. And get yourself a "Vote For Hillary in 2008" sticker. The only positive thing about Kerry winning the upcoming election is that it would knock Hillary out of contention in '08. Do you think Kerry is just the 'set up' reliever?

The founding fathers' reason for not endorsing a religion was to prevent the colonies from becoming like the pope dominated Europe. This concept needs an update. ANYTHING that tries to forcibly tell you what's right and what's wrong is religion: I don't care what else it calls itself. This includes Atheism, Humanism, political correctness, etc. I'll live quite peacefully if no govt building ever again includes the 10 Commandments, but does anybody here think they won't be replaced by a different forcible definition of right and wrong?