johniam

quote: Why do you think your comments are necessary? Cause he's full of self righteous vomit. A fountain with an unlimited supply. Same as it ever was. quote: Not without someone like you providing feedback to say such a thing. Has it not ever occurred to you that your interactions with bait and hook trolls like Mike and JohnIam might be counterproductive? I'm just posting my opinion. I got a full plate. No time to "bait and hook".

quote: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."...(KJV) How does that connect to Sgt. Schultz? By the words 'which deceiveth the whole world'. Schultz is a fictional character and part of a propaganda prop used to deceive. Propaganda can be either funny, or scary, as long as the bait is taken. You are very slow at connecting dots.

The fun never ends. quote: Hmmmm…can’t tell the difference between harmful / abusive cult-leaders and the Son of God who sacrificed himself to save others? That statement by the ex FBI guy is another boring natural man's take on spiritual matters. If narcissistic was a word at the time of Christ, or when KJV was produced, then Jesus would have been called that.

quote: And VPW didn't make money of whatever he himself flogged in the bookstore? Of "his" many publications? Off PFAL books themselves, as well as the PFAL class? And didn't Craig continue that same means of raising money? Raising money is not a sin, in and of itself. Billy Graham was a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ, yet he made money by furthering communism, which is contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ. I saw Orel Roberts on the Donahue show back in the 80s. Poor guy was getting flamed by Donahue and some of the audience. They thought it was wrong for him to charge money for his hospital, or whatever it was. Orel said in a very deadpan tone, "It'd be pretty hard to pay the electric bills without money." Many of you are never going to agree with me (even before I post it). One could argue that..well, then let's just agree to disagree. One could also argue that...the cream rises to the top, even in the form of words. The bible has risen to the top 2,000 years and counting. Let's keep airing these things out.

quote: Please expound on the difference between being ignorant (aware) of evil or (D'evil) and displacing your attention on and love for God and your neighbor with obsession w/D'evil. Then, please clarify how this (YOUR words from Wednesday afternoon) is awareness and not obsession: It's just information given in God's word, which I am aware of, not necssarily obsessed about.

quote: "As for the trinity, the devil is laughing (rotflmaopimp) at mainstream Christianity just like Hogan's Heroes laugh at Klink and Schultz." [bI'm curious what Bible verse supposedly alleges that one.[/b] Rev. 12:9

quote: Romans 13 can be understood within Paul’s historical context — Roman imperial cult. What he’s saying in that chapter was for the 1st century Roman ekklesia (always ‘assembly,’ never ‘called out.’) not for 21st century Mericans. Romans 13 can be understood as GOD BREATHED! Romans is addressed to the church of God, the body of Christ. There are 21st century Americans in the body of Christ. VP taught on Romans 13 late 60s early 70s. He made the point that the "higher powers" are those in the church, not in the govt. The catholic church "honors" the pope that way and nobody complains. Why the double standard? So...the devil spirits who were stalking VP didn't like his take on Romans 13, so in 1972 they inspired the "Living Bible", which translates Romans 13 exactly as I quoted it. In 1975 VP did a teaching called 'the way of life and death' in which he had scathing things to say about Billy Graham, who made money off the publication of the "living bible". He said Karl Marx might as well have translated that, or the devil incarnate.

Quote: It doesn't require being proven in a court of law before it becomes true. Any torch carrying terrorist can say that. Such as...the people who call themselves "peaceful protesters" who then vandalize the cities they live in. Just whose side are you on?

quote: Is the devil laughing at ... victor's interpretation of Romans 13? You actually believe that the policeman is sent from God to help you? George Floyd and Michael Brown didn't. There is no govt anywhere that God did not put there. So you also believe that Hitler and Stalin were ministers of God? Just how you gonna act when it's YOU that is ridiculous?

quote: From my studies of cults and cult leaders during my time in the FBI, I learned early on that there are some things to look for that, at a minimum, say "caution, this individual is dangerous, and in all likelihood will cause harm to others. Having studied at length the life, teachings, and behaviors of Jim Jones (Jonestown Guyana), David Koresh (Branch Davidians), Stewart Traill (The Church of Bible Understanding), Charles Manson, Shoko Asahara (Aum Shinrikyo), Joseph Di Mambro (The Order of the Solar Temple a.k.a. Ordre du Temple Solaire), Marshall Heff Applewhit (Heaven’s Gate), Bhagwan Rajneesh (Rajneesh Movement), and Warren Jeffs (polygamist leader), I can say that what stands out about these individuals is that they were or are all pathologically narcissistic. I am the way and the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me. Sounds pretty narcissistic to me. Either way, I am a follower of that guy.

quote: Why would you care what "the devil is" doing at all? We are not to be ignorant of his devices. He's the adversary of God's people (body of Christ) who walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. Any of that sound familiar?

Rock on, guys.

As for the trinity, the devil is laughing (rotflmaopimp) at mainstream Christianity just like Hogan's Heroes laugh at Klink and Schultz. Christ led captivity (the devil) captive, right? God's people are supposed to have Acts 19:20 impact (so mightily grew the word of God and prevailed), not Jude 3 impact (...earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints). But the devil deceives the whole world. He's laughing at you too. VP is DEAD. He is out of your control. At the gathering together, he will be rewarded for ANYTHING he's done that pleased God, and he will not be rewarded for anything he's done that did not please God. It's simple. A talebearer is a liar. The devil is the father of lies. Every time you repeat all that crap, you parrot the father of lies. I don't care how factual you think it is, your human pov doesn't even come close to God's eternal perspective. God planned our salvation availability when we were dead in trespasses and sins. You obsessively repeat one man's sins ad nauseum. Do you realize how self righteous and retarded that is?

I knew them. They spent 3 years in Grand Rapids, MI when I still lived there (86-89). I got along with them OK. That 3 year period included the so called 'fog years', when you didn't know WHAT you might hear next. Rob struggled with some of the stuff that came to him from HQ. He and Clarissa did not opt for panic mode; they stayed the course. I thought they handled it well. Glad they're out.

quote: Here’s another reading assignment - Losing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse, and Escape by Kristen Skedgell . I've read it more than 10 years ago. Still have a copy of it. As I said previously, God gave all of us the same capacity to make our own choices. Even if you are coerced or bullied into making any choice, it's still YOUR choice. I was very marginally acquainted with Kris. I saw her teach the word in front of 1,000 people during the year she was in St. Louis. The following year I moved to St. Louis and lived with 2 guys who had been under her leadership. They had nothing but good to say about her. They said she was tough. Pretty much everybody I have talked to about her said the same. According to the book, it was not long after she left St. Louis when she had her first encounter with VP. Her tone was not as venemous as GSC, yet she came across as a woman scorned. She knew VP was married and she had freedom of choice above and beyond that, yet she chose, coerced or not, to comply. quote:I wonder how you and your wife would feel about being at a ‘pajama party’ along with your 16-year-old daughter and wierwille is showing everyone a porn video. He invites your 16-year-old daughter up front and shows her a ‘pornographic pen’ (which wierwille describes to everyone there as a little silhouette of a guy humping a girl when you tilt the pen back and forth). Do you think wierwille misrepresented himself as a man of God? Do you think it’s okay for a minister of the gospel to sexually molest women? None of this crap has been proven in a court of law, nor ever will be. Therefore, it IS slander. The word of God stands. No human sin negates or deletes this. Not Adam's, not VPs. There is no love or peace in thinking evil continually every time you think about VP or anybody else.

quote: First, you must understand it is easy for me to read seemingly endless posts of slander, if not devoid of substance, and it's easy for me to conclude that enough is enough and I'm not reading any more of this crap. I rest my case.

quote: oh, and almost forgot – speaking of the divinity of Jesus Christ – why don’t you man up and reply to at least a few of my posts on the thread you started in doctrinal forum - The Trinity - asset or liability? – I’ll make it real easy for you – here is my last post T-Bone's post Nov 6th 2022, 9:41 PM on the Trinity, theology, the nature of God . Please respond in a timely manner… unless you prefer to remain the waterboy for a dead cult-leader, providing refreshments for wierwille’s fanbase. First, you must understand it is easy for me to read seemingly endless posts of slander, if not devoid of substance, and it's easy for me to conclude that enough is enough and I'm not reading any more of this crap. However, I did start that thread, and if you really wanted a response to something I was going to try to accommodate you. But, you want me to respond in a timely manner, yet, it would be impossible to even read those posts in a timely manner. My strategy is simple, like the cliche, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The word of God, as taught by VP, for the most part, ain't broke. I believe that so called 'cult awareness' is socially acceptable bigotry which does more harm than good. It encourages people to get in panic mode and throw out the baby with the bath water. I refuse to share that with you and your ilk.

quote: Indeed. Fear is a natural human reaction at times. It can be lifesaving. That in PFLAP Wierwille dismisses it seems to be just one more way he set the stage for capturing brains for washing. "Don't be afraid of my efforts to indoctrinate you." As a twig coordinator back in 84/85 I got what was called the 'tape of the month'. One of them was a 2 tape set from Walter Cummins. He spent a good bit of time differentiating between natural fear and the learned reflex of fear pfal taught against. My understanding is that VP actually wanted other people to do research even if it proved him wrong. Could be like a campaign slogan; could be true. quote: Believing isn't a law either. I'm happy to see that fear not being a law is listed. In Romans 3:27 there is a reference to the law of faith, however it is contrasted with the law of works, referring to that of the old covenant, so calling it a law means it will yield the same benefits in the new covenant as obeying the law of works did in the old covenant. It does not mean that our minds are rayguns and with believing we can zap the raygun and get whatever we want (believe for). If you genuinely receive the word of God, you can believe it without fear even if it contradicts the 5 senses. Nothing more.

Geez, I've REALLY got into your heads. I'm just a guy with 1/2 brain plus a double wide opinion. I'm not a gospel writer. If y'all are so sure what you claim to believe about VP, why would you let someone like me bug you so much? Are you really sure, or are you trying to kick start your faith by posting as abbrasively as you do to me. I'm sure of what I believe. Nathan seems to think it's his moral duty to "ridicule the ridiculous". What happens if HE turns out to be ridiculous?

quote: 6 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. Here, James was making "religion" sound like a POSITIVE thing, something done by "true Christians." In fact, he gave guildelines for how to properly conduct one's "religion." If someone's religion is vain, that isn't intended to be positive. 2Cor11:12-15 - But what I do, that will I do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion, that wherein they glory, they may be found as we / for such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ / and no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light / therefore it is no great thing if his (satan's) ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works Any church minister could earn a spot on that roster. The devil gets more mileage from religion than God. God's 'mileage' (the finished works of Jesus Christ) exponentially supersedes the devil's. It was religious people who had Christ crucified. 2Cor2:17a - for we are not as many which corrupt the word of God... Many, not few. Corrupt means water down. Those 'he gets us' ads are a good example of that. One of them says Jesus was trying to change the world. Jesus warned his disciples that in the world they would have tribulation, which is still true (John 16:33). He wasn't trying to change the world. John 4:34 - Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish His work. That was the entire basis of EVERYTHING he did and said. His whole focus. Mainstream Christianity still teaches that Jesus is God, the dead are alive, and SIT went out with the first century. They are watering down the accomplishments of Jesus Christ when they do that. They are carrying the devil's water for him. That does not please God. I am a true Christian, and I don't always see religion as positive.

I've really gotten inside your head, haven't I? Get over yourself.

quote: Unresolved? No. You miss the mark. Again. It sounds like abuse. It sounds like she has been letting it play out for years. It sounds like she has let it play out long enough. Hence, her fatigue. l can make inferences about her relationship, because what she describes sounds just like my experience. She can't change him. He has to wake up on his own. I hope she has a support system outside of her marriage and the cult. I hope she has the courage to stand up, declare her freedom, and begin the healing process. Miss the mark? Cute. Everything sounds like abuse to you. Do you actually know her? This post comes across to me like she'd been coming on here possibly without her husband knowing and finally decided to post and then had second thoughts. She says she's tired, but also sounds really frustrated.

I guess I shouldn't assume your spouse is a husband.

quote: Members 1 Posted June 23, 2022 Hi. I’m Tiredgirl. I was in TWI for many hears until I just couldn’t stomach it anymore. My spouse says they are a christan. But is angry all the time. This contributed to me realizing that his belief system, IE doctrine is not real, so how could mine be. It’s not much of a relationship. Therefore I am tired You sound like there's something unresolved between you and your husband. Maybe if that's true you should wait to see how it plays out.

Quote: For now, we see as through a glass darkly. But someday, face to face. ! Cor. 13:12, in context, is on the heels of speaking, understanding, and thinking as a child compared to putting away childish things. In remoter context, this is a parallel to not walking in love as a "child" compared to walking in love which never faileth by "putting away childish things". The whole chapter gives 16 things about love (charity), 9 of which are what it is not. It assumes the reader already makes sense out of the bible. If I was going to find a scripture I would have chosen Isaiah 55:8,9 that God's ways and thoughts are higher than ours. However, the bible reveals many of God's ways and thoughts. Peter wasn't seeing through a glass darkly in Acts 2: 16,17. (This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel, etc). He was rightly dividing the word of truth. We can do that, too.