Oakspear

When someone says that the internet is just one more thing to take time away from God, I always think that everything is time away from God if you think along certain lines. Books, football, fishing, anything. I view the internet as a great tool. I can access information much faster than ever before. Before the internet I spent a lot of time at the library browsing the encyclopedias, or reading through the set I had at home, just to soak up information. I still do that, but the computer gives me the opportunity to get something now if that's when I need it. By the way, I still read quite a bit; I often have three books going at once, as well as the Sunday NY Times (which takes me until Thursday or Friday to read!). The piece of technology that I am of two minds about is the cell phone. The good thing about them is that people can reach you at any time. The bad thing about them is that people can reach you at any time.

When you click the link to "contact us" the email address is the same as for a guy who posts pics from the Family Tables website on another site that I frequent. Family Tables is a site run by an "innie" that was visited by several of us a few years ago. When we started asking pointed questions the rules were changed to require that only active TWI members be allowed to post.

http://the-way-international.org/default.aspx

"Turned my life upside down", being a figure of speech, means that nothing in his life was the same, the "upside down" is a figurative expression expressing the literal reality of a life changing in every aspect.So...his life wasn't literally turned upside down or he'd be living on the ceiling. You'd think a guy who put so much stock in figures of speech would know not to say "literally" when he was about to use a figurative expression.

What went on in TWI went beyond simple disagreement. There was something wrong with you if you suggested that the leaders were wrong.

Doubt we'll be able to make it, but anyone passing through Nebraska is welcome to stop by...

Yup...I think we have a winner!

WordWold & WhiteDove: Good work gentlemen. The word translated faith/believe isn't nearly so complicated or convoluted as Mr. Wierwille made it. But that was part of the attraction was it not? The "secret", "special" knowldge that "the world" didn't know. :ph34r: Wierwille's teachings on believing resembled very closely books like "The Secret" and the early 20th century writer Florence Scovell Schinn, where stating intention in a positive fashion equalled receipt of whatever it was you wanted.

Bramble: Doubtless the author knows little and cares less what modern pagans believe and sees the world through a Christian lens. That's his privelege, right or wrong. What he's contrasting Christianity with is, including his assertion that charity was unlnown among pagans, Roman state paganism. Just as mainstream Christianity is the 800 pound gorilla in the room of our culture, "official" Roman paganism was in 1st century culture. Just as modern pagans in the U.S. have to contend with the assumption that everybody's a Christian, Christians in Corinth had to contend with the expectation that everybody would conform to to pagan customs. In the context, his comments make sense, even his ridiculous assertion that religions that predated Abraham were a parody, weak or otherwise of a relatively new faith.

Geez, this needs to go to Politics & tacks IMHO

Senator Chanbers is one of ours; he's the only black member of the one-house Nebraska legislature. He's term-limited out after this term. Ernie is a master a parliamentary procedure, and has been able to tie up the unicameral in knots when it suited him.

I don't think this was one of the things he plagriarized or learned from someone else, I believe that this is one of Wierwille's "unique" doctrines. If this was taught in "the denominations" (as if TWI wasn't a denomination) then it would have reached a heck of lot more people than Wierwille ever did Only if you accept Wierwille's false distinction between "believing" and "faith" as true. Wierwille drew a contrast between two words, that although dissimilar in English, are translated from the same word in Greek. He also outlined 5 supposed kinds of believing, but never really defined them from the bible; I would venture to say that most wayfers and ex-wayfers would admit confusion as to what Wierwille actually taught about the other 4 types of believing. <_< Even if it's a manifestation...where's the definition?

I've always found "oh my God" a bit thoughtless, if not offensive like "God d*mn". "Luann", a syndicated comic, frequently has the title character using the phrase "ohmygaw".

DWBH: In general I agree with what you're saying. In addition, not being a Christian I feel no compulsion to follow Jesus' (or anyone else's in the bible) example of forgiveness. But your characterization of yourself as a "man who knew too much" suggests that you were in a position of leadership yourself. Have you any forgveness to seek?

Gee, when you put it that way, it all makes sense!

To each his or her own of course, but my wife and I made $850 in three hours reading those devilish tarot cards for a local company's employee appreciation day Although I disagree with your friend's conclusions, it makes sense within the context of their beliefs. From a certain mindset it makes sense to eschew books like Harry Potter which do indeed promote a belief in magic, especially if you believe that magic is not from your god. same with fairies, if their not angels, then what are they? I think that these folks are wrong, but they're consistant.

Still haven't seen biblically or logically how one can improve by practicing something that is already perfect (perfect prayer, wonderful works of God etc). Now if by "fluent", Wierwille really meant "comfortable", now that's another thing. If someone is shy or unsure, wouldn't the words still be perfect, while the delivery is shaky?

Establishes and maintains a positive attitude Established and maintained denial makes life meaningful Made life center around a corrupt organization Overcomes worry and fear Encouraged worry and fear of leadership and of not believing Promotes prosperity and health I've had more of both since leaving TWI Explains apparent bible contradictions At best gave semi-plausible possible explanations of bible contradictions Develops more harmony in the home Not for me Enables you to seperate truth from error Enabled me to separate Wierwille's opinions from other people's opinions Disciplines the mind by believing Whatever that means Teaches how to pray effectively. Prayer had about the same effectiveness before, during and after PFAL.

Relish in bashing? Does that go well on hot dogs?

WW, I think the quote from Wierwille's dad about school was in TW:LIL - something about sending him to Lakland/Mission House because that's the school whose missionary program they supported.

The article does say that The Way had always been against homosexuality, it was the way that the TWI position became a "purge" that was Martindale's.

Understandable, I often take the atheists' side in these discussions. Well, that's one way to look at it. I think another way to look at it is that even an atheist has heard of God, or the concept of God, so that even if he or she doesn't believe that there is a God, the response to the question is in the context of the asker's question. Yes, the question presumes the existance of God, but answering it doesn't necessarily assume the same thing.

Amazingly enough, I have a life outside of Grease Spot Cafe! I don't consider myself an atheist, but understand the atheist point of view. I consider myself an agnostic: I don't see the existance of God or gods as established, but I don't rule it out either. I don't think that an atheists "needs" God I've got laundry to do and a family at home today, so maybe I'll check in later.

Part of why it cycles around so often is that most of us, either while still invoved in TWI or after, modified our own understanding of what "believing" was and projected that onto what was taught in PFAL. Wierwille said some pretty specific things about his "Law o' Believing" in PFAL, but it wasn't always practiced that way nor always taught that way. Sooner or later these believing threads become arguments about how "believing" is godly, biblical, and how it works, yet what is decribed isn't what Wierwille taught in PFAL.

I don't think that there is a "most". Folks go where they find what they want. That might range from a TWI clone to the church of their youth to a coven to...nothing.