Oakspear

I may be mistaken, but I don't think mstar was saying "show me" as in "show me a sign", or "do me a mirackle", but "show me" as in "your life and how you conduct yourself will be an indication of your connection to your god".

http://www.return2forever.com/index.cfm?pk...&pid=400145

I saw Chick on Valentine's Day 2007 with vibraphonist Gary Burton. I am really looking forward to seeing them...

um...read the thread title... <_<

Corea, Clarke, DiMeola and White and they're coming to Omaha!

Worth repeating.True, the control grew to insane levels in the 90's, but the seed had been planted, the groove had been cut long before. It's not that big a jump to letting someone micromanage your life once you've accepted that they've got all the answers.

I thought that the "Cry of Triumph" was Lamsa, not Bullinger?

I recall Wierwille teaching that "dead for 72 hours" thing, but I don't recall seeing it anywhere else. Yeah, I don't think that you have to be a doc to see the holes in the story. Personally I don't see anything wrong with crediting one's god for someone being alive when they were written off as dead, but the details remind me of some of the TWI urban legends.

Never?

I believe that non-U.S. Way entities were only as autonomous as they were required by local law to be. Probably the same goes for some U.S. limbs as well. I would imagine that when Country Coordinators decided to split from TWI they were able to take the assets with them if there was no visible link to The Way International.

Did LCM ever claim that he was a great football player? I heard him speak highly of his coaches and relate things that he learned in football to what he was teaching, but I never heard him talk about his ability or lack of it. I did hear second hand how he described how tough Nebraska was in the Orange Bowl of '70.

A lot of things were removed from the book version, including "It's Christ in you, the hope 'a glowree

We have an base near here, had WOW's back in the 70's and 80's and this was never the case.

Yup, I know you do, as many people here at GS do. I doubt that you, me, or anyone else could find any meaningful difference among the actions and lifestyle of Christians, Buddhists, Humanists or any other belief system. Sure it sounds narrow, but you're entitled to that point of view. No, but the good works sure make them more pleasant to be around Because they don't believe that it's true perhaps?back to our scheduled discussion...

I'll assume that this isn't a Christians-only discussion and throw in my 2 cents: Sometimes the doctrinal battle over salvation and how it's gotten overwhelm the question of how we're supposed to act while we're on the earth in this physical body. On one extreme we argue over degrees of sin and get all judgemental about soemone's shortcomings and on another extreme we declare that muttering a magic formula absolves us of all responsibility to live a godly life. With regard to Wierwille's "born again" status, my opinion is that any god who would withhold "salvation" from a person who lives a "Chist-like" life, yet somehow misses out on "believing and confessing" the formula due to any number of possible reasons and awards it to someone nominally "born again" who lies, cheats, rapes and abuses his "flock" is an unjust god. To me the point is somewhat moot; I no longer believe in a heavenly "Get Out Of Hell Free" card or that belief in one religion's standard somehow sets me apart.

Never once did I literally "scratch it out". I have a lot of notes in the margins, and color-coding to indicate different points of Wierwillian doctrine, but I never crossed out anything. It kind of makes it difficult to read.

Hmmm...interesting. I don't believe that I've heretofore heard that "position" - Viewed from a certain angle it kind of makes sense.

Right, you didn't, but you "think" that seemingly contradictory sections, such as the rich man in hell and Lazarus in Abraham's bosom, should be interpreted in light of Ecclesiates about the dead not knowing any thing. That's your "position". Paul also talks about departing and being with Christ, if the bible is true, then that would be what you have to go with as well.

Okay, you're just "clownin"...so you know that we're not talking about the dead being physically alive.

I thought we were talking about what the bible says about the state of the dead. If I did produce a dead person who talked to us, those who believed that the dead were conscious and able to communicate with us would say "See, I told you so", and those who were convinced that the dead had no consciousness would have an alternative explanation, like that they were "devil spirits". Rachel, you may very well be right, I'm just pointing out that your position isn't as self-evident as you claim that it is. bridepfjc expands a bit on my point and says it more clearly than I did.

If it was as clear as you say, we wouldn't be having this discussion! Well their bodiies, sure... Does that mean their memory? Or peoples' memory of them? The English translation indicates the latter IMHO. Do these verses really say what Wierwille said they said?

Heart?Nobody knows that, but actions do speak

Because he's reviving (or attempting to revive) his grandfather's legacy, which many here beieve is harmful.

The guy was a blowhard and a liar. So what? Maybe because we didn't allow ourselves to stay entranced by Vicster the huckster.

Acts 1 seems clear enough to me. I think socks mentioned the reference even if he didn't cite the chapter & verse. It appears to me that you take a more figurative interpretation than some folks. I've got no problem with that, but it makes it difficult for to have a discussion with you (that's my problem, not yours) since I'm never sure what you're seeing when you read a section of the bible. It seems to me that you and follow different rules of logic and discussion, so don't get offended if I don't engage you in debate over this issue.