Oakspear

Chapter 1 of "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash" by Jean Shepherd Verse 2 of "Love Reign O'er Me" on Quadrophenia by The Who.

Welcome to the Cafe, that place where any five posters will have eleven opinions! I hope you decide to stick around, and not just be one of those drive-by posters. I disagree with you in that speaking up about the abuses of TWI helps, not hurts in my opinion. It tears away the veil. Granted, it could be hurtful, but it's hard to see the whole person from what you see posted here. Plenty of us live lives with little or no connection to what went on in TWI, but come here to vent. There's plenty of threads on forgiveness. Many of us feel that since no one speaking officially for TWI has admitted wrongdoing and asked for forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive. Check out some of the forgiveness threads for more in-depth discussion. And lastly, while most of the posters here are Christians, there is by no means a consensus regarding what that means or what the bible says about various subjects, and there is a small but vocal minority of non-Christians (like me), (who I guess would, in your terminology, be "the world") who don't feel constrained by any biblical standard. Welcome aboard, bro'

naw.

But then we get new people! Perhaps he never left.

...or even pridefully sinfull :o

Why must there be? The bible was written by a large number of people over a large span of years. Expecting cohesiveness is not realistic IMHO.

They've changed a lot from the four little tykes raising heck in the Burger King 6 years ago!

The whole attitude about work was that it was something you did when you weren't busy with "the ministry". I've seen more than a few people who could have advanced in their jobs, but went nowhere because their availablity was severely restricted due to twig schedules, advances, classes, witnessing, etc.

Last summer I drove to New York. Gas prices were insane, but it was still cheaper than 3 plane tickets, parking and a rental when I got there. Gas was $3.85 when I left Lincoln and rose steadily as I headed east. I paid $4.39/gallon around the corner from my parents' on the way home, and saw prices over $4.50 in some places; it was still $4.15 in Nebraska when I got home. Friday morning I paid $1.599/gallon. I think Kansas City is running even cheaper than that. The last time I was there it was $1.79 when it was $2.19 in Lincoln. How low will it go?

And it wasn't just the fact that it was free labor, and scavenging used and borrowed crap (yeah, I was on the funeral home chair duty too) but it was the assumption that your time was not your own. During my last couple of years in TWI I worked out of my home (didn't own my own business, but worked out of my car & basement) and my kids were home schooled by my first wife. Leadership knew this and were always bugging us to go witnessing with them, have meetings at our house, or call and interrupt our day with hour-long phone calls.

Good story Wolf, you know, if I'd have been thinking back in the day, I would have done the equivalent of a squid pie, maybe some "Happy Eid" or "Hanukah" stamps on my abundant sharing envelopes.

Still clinging. <_< Very few of us here are writers by profession, trained to use their words in a precise and unambiguous manner. We write things that sometimes aren't clear, then go back and clarify. Most folks accept the clarification, and refrain from telling other posters what they meant, what they were thinking, what their main point was. Despite the mention of the cost of lunch and all the rest, do you really think that posters are claiming to have literally missed meals and been in misery over a stamp?

Why does time have to have an end? How many groups and prophets have predicted the "end times" and been wrong? More than a few. I don't think Jesus is coming back.

I never had a leader expect me to work in his "secular" business, but I spent plenty of time cleaning leader's homes and mowing their lawns as if it was their due. Whether we fell for it or not, there was an expectation that we should be "blessed" to do work for our leaders that they should have been doing themselves. TRhis became even more ludicrous when they were working full time for TWI and had no 40 hour gig to go to.

The stamp, and the small cost of it was not the real issue. Many posters have said so, and explained their reasoning. One poster has ignored these explanations and chooses to cling to a misunderstanding, or perhaps a deliberate mischaracterization. No one has said that they were in misery due to having to pay for postage. No one said that they missed any meals due to paying for postage. These statements are either dramatic exagerrations or strawman arguments. So, there's documentation to supposedly substantiate that twigs were truly self-supporting. This in no way indicates that they actually were.

Hmmm...no whining! Just more subject changing and distractions! <_<

I disagree that those who have brought up the cost of a stamp are whining. No one is claiming that the cost of the stamps put them into financial ruin. The spotlight should more properly be cast upon the multi-million dollar "ministry" that "whined" about twig leaders deducting postage and money order costs.

My many years in a cult and my refusal to participate in online support groups has made me angry and bitter and bereft of a sense of humor.

Why would you apologize for not posting? :huh: Your favorite vice? I went through your posts and the vast majority of your posts are on two threads, including this one where you are promoting your business. It does not appear that you participate in GSC other than chasing ambulances.

That is an example of doctrinal error, since the dead are dead

When i was involved in TWI I had 6 children at home. They got colds, they got the flu, heck they got chicken pox. My ex-wife and I got colds and flu. We were "reproved" once for our family being sick, since, especially since some of the kids were pretty young, either the ex or me would stay home with sick kids on twig night, we were missing "the greatness of the Word". So I started keeping track in a planner who was sick in our twig. After about three months, Mr. Leader sought to reprove me again, demanding to know why things hadn't changed. I presented him with the statistics that showed that he and his wife were sick more often than anyone else in the whole fellowship and that the fact that I had eight people in my home only made it look like we were sick all the time. He looked kind of stunned and found something else to reprove me for.

As I remember it, Martindale was talking about habitual practical error leading to doctrinal error, not that every single instance of practical error lead to doctrinal error. Not to beat the traffic analogy to death but there's quite a few people who believe that it's legal to drive up to 5 mph over the speed limit, or that keeping up with traffic that is exceeding the speed limit is legal.

So, what does this mean? That you "looked things up" and didn't find anything to disagree with? What do you mean "you never got far enough along to argue if any point was true or false?

It goes to show you that many equate "the Word" with the organization, especially when there are offshoots whose teachings are indistinguishable from TWI's

Finest kind, tater