Oakspear

Well said. We often see disagreements here at GS about when things got bad in TWI and when was the right time to leave. There have been posters who left as early as 1973 or '74, believing that the good ol' days were gone, and those who stuck around into the 90's and beyond. Even those who are still in. There was always good and bad about TWI, there always will be. When the bad outweighs the good for each individual is when it's time to get out.

I used to know a guy who called it Power for The 'Bundant Living

Hey! Cut Dmiller some slack! He's defending our northern border from all those Canucks wantin' to play hockey down here!

The group that became known as The First Way Corps started their program at Way HQ in the late summer or early fall of 1970 and graduated 2 years later in 1972. A group that was later derisively referred to as "The Zero Corps" started in 1969 but was dismissed by Wierwille in under a year. It is unclear whether this group was called "The Way Corps" at the time they were together. The WOW program was announced at the end of summer school 1971 during a weekend festival/celebration later referred to as the first Rock of Ages Festival*. Wierwille announced that the program was starting, then brought them back for "training" some time later (perhaps in October, not 100% sure). This first group of WOWs ended their year at the second Rock of Ages in August 1972. A group called the "pilot WOWs", which included Donnie Fugit as well as less than a dozen others were sent out previous to the so-called "first wave" of WOWs following the 1971 ROA. I believe that this took place in the spring & summer of 1971. * In looking back through my old Way Mags a few years ago, I noticed that the first "Rock of Ages" was simply the music portion of a weeklong celebration of the end of summer school and was referred to throughout the Way Mag articles as a Summer Youth Advance featuring "The Return of the Rock of Ages"

I've long thought that the centralizing of "leadership" responsibility in the Way Corps was the big mistake that killed the grass roots and organic growth in favor of controlled and regimented growth. But I can see where the WOW program would have the same effect. I think both the institution of the Way Corps and the start of the WOW program are both symptoms of Wierwille's need to control

Presenting the then-current Trustees as deviating from Wierwille's idealized path was probably the only approach that would have had any affect on the Wayfers of that day. Even the paper that Lynn, Dubofsky et al put out attacked the issues within TWI from the point of view of having deviated from what Wierwille taught.

What makes you say that?

White Dove, if you are upset that people seem to be applying a double standard to your words and experiences, might I suggest that they are only holding you to your own standards. You are the one who rejects any testimony that is not documented, you are the one who rejects any testimony from second-hand sources, you are the one who belittles those who have first hand experiences and question their memory and even their motives. Most of the incidents where posters are doing this to you appears to be a holding of your feet to the fire. As far as first, second, third hand reports are concerned, First Hand Testimony is from a person who has witnessed or experienced what is being reported. It is still first hand whenever that person tells anyone about it or writes about it. If the are quoted in a newspaper, write a book or post it on the internet, it's still first hand information. Once someone tells someone about that information without actually having the person physically in the room, or having the newspaper article, book or internet posting right there to refer to, it becomes second hand to the person hearing or reading it. In other words, if I tell you about an incident in my childhood, it first hand information to you, but if you tell someone else, then it becomes second hand information to the person that you tell it to, despite it being first hand information to you. If you are going to disregard information that someone passes on second hand after possibly hearing it from the source, don't be surprised when information that people that you personally know have told you, is not accepted as anything other than second hand, because it's the same thing.

...and I'd like to know what you think!

I'd not thought of it that way, but yes, it is. He didn't leave his denomination until 1957, but had his own private radio ministry from 1942 on, incorporated in 1947 and had the name changed to "The Way" in 1955. Started pushing speaking in tongues in 1951 (Tulsa trip) and began PFAL classes in 1953.

I'd be interested to know the thought process behind the decisions by some to remain "officially" within TWI, i.e. collect a salary, outwardly remain part of the chain of command, etc. while supporting in word and deed those who, right or wrong, stood against TWI. Did some think that G##r was going to ride in and take over as titular head of TWI? That some bottom-up change from within was going to take place? I know that while I was involved in TWI, from time to time the rank and file, non-leaders and non-Corps twig leaders, would sometimes wait out the leadership turnover if they thought the appointed Limb Leader or Branch Leader was a jerk. They'd lay low, minimally participate, and see what the next guy would be like. By the mid-to-late 90's even this wasn't available any more, since the fringe participants were considered spiritually weak and guilty of "unproductive evil" and driven out. I wonder if this wasn't part of the mindset of those who hung around while viewing the Trustees as "not doing the Word".

What did Martindale think would happen when he sent those letters out? Sheesh! What an idiot. It loooks like he facilitated the formation of offshoots/splinters with his actions.

One does not preclude the other.

It seems that there were two main types of exodus back in the 80's, the "en masse" defection, where a Limb or Region leader cut ties to TWI and many or most of his Limb followed, and the individual who just walked away under his own steam. From what I have read at GSC and other sites over the years, the en masse defections were about the so-called loyalty letter (or at least that letter was the last straw) for the leaders, and the rank and file decided that the local leaders who they knew were more more likely to be trustworthy than the far-away Trustees who they didn't know.

Get well

Abi, I can't keep silent any longer. I sent Mark a check for $100 so that he could distract Geisha in order that she stop praying for me.

Frame, I believe what WordWolf is saying is that the original version of PFAL (initially titled "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today") was a virtual copy of Leonard's class, not that the final version was.

I do know that during the 90's TWI acted as if Caballero & Townsend never existed and that they had never been on the BOT.

In addition to the obvious "hurt in some other way" aspect of the subject at hand, what struck me was the assumption that God would have lower standards for choosing leaders than we ourselves would. God doesn't need guidelines? :blink: Didn't he reveal some guidelines in da bible?

I think that he was the head of the Home School Legal Foundation or some such.

Less dignity? I don't think you could go any lower after the last two

Marvel can't print comic books? Who says we need a comic book? I like Spider-Man. Marvel is in business to sell comic books, and apparently they are doing that. Where does it say that Obama is concerned about some "fantasy book"? Hmmmm...don't quite see the connection :blink:

I'm not sure that this is taught in the OT, at least not clearly, and I'd have to re-read the gospels (part of my plan for 2009 actually) to see if it's even taught in the gospels. The whole "Jesus had to be sacrificed to redeem us" thing seems to bear a suspicious resemblance to the "slain god", or "sacrificial king" mythos that you find in cultures across the world.

Yes <_<