Oakspear

I got tickets! whoo whoo Gotta love dem blues Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is

After I returned to New York I was determined to do something for God. I was excited to be part of a group that put God first, and wanted to do my part. In New York in the late 70's there were a large number of twigs operating. In August 1979 Long Island, including Brooklyn and Queens, comprised "Area One" which was led by a Corps grad. Within the Area were eight or nine full branches as well as a WOW branch. None of the Branch Leaders were Way Corps grads, and many of the Twig Leaders were not Advanced Class grads. Due to this lack of Way Corps, things were somewhat relaxed. There were a variety of age groups among the active people, but the majority were high school and college aged. I got through 1978-79 with most of the stars in my eyes intact, and talked a few of my friends into taking PFAL. I decided to move into a Way Home in August 1979. The Way Home was where I started seeing the seamier side of things. All of us in the Way Home were relatively new to The Way. Bxxxxx B, the Way Home Coordinator had taken the class with me in 1978, and the other two people were even newer than us. Up until this point I lived with my parents. Several months after we all moved in, one my Way Home room-mates tried to call home from work and found out that our phone had been disconnected. After digging a little, we found that all of our utilities were on the verge of being cut off from non-payment. Bxxxxx, who handled finances for the Way Home had been collecting money from us, and NOT paying the bills. Bxxxxx had a drinking problem and had been supporting the local bars with our hard-earned money. We also thought he had a job, but he had none. Although several people later told me that they knew about Bxxxxx's drinking problem, and had gone to "leadership" about it. Nothing was done about it AND he was put in a position of responsibility. Our branch leader decided to give him a second chance. He continued to live with us, but I took over as a coordinator of the Way Home and Twig leader. I was 20 years old and knew very little about leading anything. A month or so later, checks Bxxxxxx had used to pay past due amounts for utilities bounced. Our phone heat and electricity was cut off. The three of us voted Bxxxxx out of the Way Home. Bxxxxx was transferred to another Way Home, and we were "reproved" for kicking him out without checking with leadership first. This was my first inkling that "leaders" were not all-knowing. Even back then we were expected to obey without question, to expect that they were right. Yet in this situation everybody but leadership seemed to see the problem with this guy. Leadership took no responsibility for their bad choices. Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is [This message was edited by Oakspear on February 16, 2003 at 15:52.] [This message was edited by Oakspear on November 02, 2003 at 14:18.]

For most of the remainder of the 1977-78 "ministry year" I had only sporadic contact with Way people. It still hadn't sunken in that the Way was a huge organization, spanning the country and the globe. I didn't get much pressure to conform from other twig folks, and since I was only a semi-regular, I missed any bad stuff that was going on. I wasn't what you would call committed..........yet In July, a was asked if I wanted to drive with someone to "The Rock". "The Rock"? What was that? This person was going WOW. Her husband was at the Advanced Class at Rome City. He would be staying for Rock of Ages setup and she needed a driver. I always loved road trips (still do) and some of my friends from twig were going, so I said "what the hell" and agreed to go. I had so much fun. The people, the teachings, the grounds, everything was great in my eyes. THIS was what I was looking for. I couldn't believe how CLEAN it was, how so many people got along, I was REALLY hooked now. I don't remember many details other than staying in a hotel room in Celina with twelve or more people and meeting VP and the registration tent in the dawn hours. I left the Rock of Ages determined to be more involved in this group. Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is [This message was edited by Oakspear on November 03, 2003 at 1:36.]

What was it about the class that made me believe it? Looking back across twenty-four years, it's really hard to tell. there were a lot of things that weren't actually in PFAL, but became part of the twi belief system, so it's sometimes hard to separate them. Maybe it's because he documented enough things, chapter and verse, that I didn't notice when he pulled things out of his @$$. Despite that I now know he plagarized, and used shoddy research, he DID come up with verses to back up a lot of what he said. He was able to set the stage by showing me that not everything I had been taught in church was right. There was enough of a veneer of "research" that I hardly noticed the illogic at times. And when I did notice illogic, or errors, I figured they were minor, and could be overlooked, or that I was missing it somehow. Vic was a master at slipping in concepts while you weren't looking. For example, he was supposedly teaching us about punctuation, but he was really teaching us about the difference between heaven and paradise. This took place all throughout PFAL. Once I believed that churches were not interested in the truth, once I believed that he was legitimately researching the bible, he had me hooked. VP may not have been a real researcher, he may have been a plagarist, he may have been many things, but he knew how to hook a sucker. He had a line in the class where he claims to have proof of the resuurection, "beyond the writings of Josephus and others". That intrigued me, that hooked me. Turns out he was talking about speaking in tongues. There were times during PFAL where I was bored, but I wanted to learn, so I hung in there. There were times where I was electrified, like the part where he says "It's CHRIST in you, CHRIST in you, what power the church has, if we only KNEW IT!" (which interestingly enough, is not in the PFAL book) There were things that I didn't understand. But the future promise of more classes hooked me. Most nights after class, my cousin and I went home and "witnessed" to someone: friends, parents, anyone. My parents didn't want to hear it, nor did most of our friends. To me this stuff was so amazing, I was amazed that other people didn't want to know also. But in retrospect I was pretty obnoxious, saying, in effect: you don't know anything, I do, listen to me, you idiot! But I think that if someone would have taken the time to show me, from the bible, how VP was wrong, I might have listened. Maybe the ones who could have done that figured that I wouldn't listen anyway. From twi's perspective, Catholics were prime targets because the details of the bible were not really taught, and we had no depth with which to resist the pressure put upon us. At that time the Intermediate class was tacked on to the end of the foundational class, so by the end of March I was an intermediate class grad as well. Boy was I spiritual! For the rest of the "ministry year" I semi-regularly attended twigs, and stopped going to church in late May of 1978. Already, people started to try to talk me into going WOW. My cousin, who had started going to twigs before I did, dropped out before the Rock of Ages. Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is [This message was edited by Oakspear on February 16, 2003 at 15:50.] [This message was edited by Oakspear on November 02, 2003 at 14:16.]

((((((((Kathy)))))))) Don't be hard on yourself Kathy. Change what YOU want to change, recover, grow, whatever, at YOUR OWN pace. Retain what YOU want to retain as well. You have been a very welcome addition to the Grease Spot cafe. Don't worry about what is "normal". Others can give advice, perspective, comfort, etc., but only you are YOU. (You do write very clearly and get your point across very well, by the way, and thanks for using paragraphs!) For some people the change is gradual, for some it is sudden. For me a big turning point was a trip I took this summer, visiting my non-Way family. It was very healing for me. Along the way I stopped and visited twelve ex-Way friends and acquaintances, some who I previously known only on the forums or the chat room, some who I've known for decades. I felt that I had turned a corner when I got back. What will it take for you? I don't know. But hang in there! Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is

After awhile I started to hear about a class that you could take to learn more about the bible. They were pretty low-key about it, and no one really pushed me to take it. They were going to be running it in Flushing, Queens and the instructor would be some guy named "Jerry". I later heard that the teacher was some guy named Wierwille from Ohio. So... ...I figured that Jerry Wierwille from Ohio would be teaching the class in Flushing. (how long did it take them to figure out that "teacher" and "instructor" are synonymous?) The more twigs I attended, the more I saw that there were MANY, MANY, MANY differences between what they were teaching at XXX's house and what I learned in church. There weren't this many differences between the Catholics and the Protestants, I thought. I made an appointment to meet with one of the parish priests. I asked him to help me understand the differences, since they were both using basically the same bible. I didn't get it. His answer was: "We have 2000 years of tradition behind us, they don't" I was surprised and not a little shocked that he would take it so lightly. If he had put a little bit of effort into it, he probably could have convinced me to stay with the Catholic church, I've heard plenty of arguments against the Way's point of view over the years, even pre-internet. It was that night that I decided to sign up for the class. I went to the home where twig was run, they weren't there, so I left a note. One of them stopped by my house later and I paid my $100. During the first week of March, I started the Power for Abundant Living Class. Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is [This message was edited by Oakspear on August 24, 2002 at 18:00.]

I don't think that I clearly articulated it at the time, even to myself, but I was searching for something. My grades were starting to slip in school, due to my bad study habits, as well as the drinking and smoking. I was not getting an real satisfaction at church, nor through the studies of other religons. I was feeling somewhat empty. [This message was edited by Oakspear on February 16, 2003 at 14:46.] [This message was edited by Oakspear on November 02, 2003 at 14:16.]

It was Christmas 1977. Upstairs from us in our two-family house, lived my mom's sister, her husband, and her six children, my cousins. The oldest cousin and I had hung out together for awhile when in high school and college, and had some of the same friends. One of her co-workers happened to be the Twig Leader for our neighborhood. He had invited her to some Twigs at his house, they might have even been dating. I'm not sure. He had given her a Holiday card which was signed "God loves you and I do too", which my aunt showed me. She was concerned that my cousin was getting involved in something strange. (Ah Aunt P****, you were wiser than I gave you credit for!) My aunt asked me to accompany my cousin to one of the meetings. Shortly thereafter, in Jan. 1978, I attended my first Twig. The people seemed pretty cool, and I heard quite a few things right off the bat that were different than what I had been taught growing up (JC is not God, the dead not alive, holy spirit and God not the same, speaking in tongues, etc) I took this as a great opportunity to get into an argument, or at least a debate. I LOVED to argue, discuss, and debate. I was intrigued by what they had to say, and was impressed by their confidence in what they were saying. I got into a few arguments, but left on good terms with the people there. Over the next few months I began to attend twigs on a regular basis, although not every week. I still attended Catholic mass every Sunday, and still drank beer and smoked pot. At this time, I still looked at the twig as just another Christian group that had some interesting ideas, but hardly life-changing, or even that unique. We knew people at our church who spoke in tongues, and a lot of the other stuff was not that extra-ordinary when compared to eastern religons. Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is [This message was edited by Oakspear on February 16, 2003 at 14:45.] [This message was edited by Oakspear on November 02, 2003 at 14:15.]

My name is TH0MAS J J0YCE, JR, just call me T0M, or Oakspear, or Oak, it's all the same to me. My life on earth began in 1958. I was the eldest of five children, and had loving parents who are still married to each other. For the most part, life was good. Our family was staunchly Roman Catholic. There are priests in the family, including my father's brother, and I grew up very religous. Rosedale, our New York neighborhood, was overwhelmingly Catholic, mostly Irish and Italian, although we had small Episcopal, Presbetyrian, and Lutheran churches, and a Reform synagogue as well. All of us kids attended Catholic grade school in our neighborhood, back in the day when nuns wore "habits" and not civvies. I remember an incident from 5th grade. One of the non-nun teachers told us that the book of Genesis was just a myth, and not to be taken seriously as truth. I argued with the teacher and then went home and told my mom. I can't remember if she actually went down and confronted the teacher, but she made sure that I knew that I did the right thing. We believed the bible in our family! When I reached high school, instead of going to our local high school in the next neighborhood over, I went to a centrally located "Thomas A. Edison Technical and Vocational" school in another part of the city. At high school I was for the first time exposed regularly to people who were a lot different then me in terms of background, ethnic culture, values, etc. I also fell in with two groups of guys, one who liked to drink a lot of beer, and another who liked to smoke pot. I consumed large amounts of both throughout high school. Due to my voracious reading habits, as well as being exposed to different points of view (and a Jewish girlfriend) I started questioning whether the religion that I had grown up with was the one and only truth. I started visiting the other churches in my neighborhood, and began to take seriously the ideas of Buddhism and Taoism and other eastern religons. College just accelerated and magnified the process. During High School I had developed some bad study habits. My drinking and pot smoking became more of a priority than studying. But I never really received any consequences for my lack of studying. I'm one of those people who can absorb information pretty quickly and I also have a knack for taking tests - passing them with high marks even when I had not studied at all. This made me lazy and looking for shortcuts. So here I am, confused about spirituality and religion; unfocussed in my personal life and habits, and looking for shortcuts in all areas of life. Nineteen years old. Then I heard about a "Christian Fellowship" Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is [This message was edited by Oakspear on February 14, 2003 at 8:58.]

Sure, rules and laws are there for a reason, but sometimes the reason is STUPID! I'm not one to break the rules just because they are there; if you want to live among other people there has to be SOME level of order. When I was "in" twi I was pretty anal about obeying the law. I had my license revoked once for multiple speeding tickets and subsequently found a verse in I Peter about submitting to every ordinance of man. I figured that in order to obey "the Word" in this case I would have to obey the law of the land also. Since leaving twi I am not so concerned about every jot and tittle, but still try to follow the law whenever possible. Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is

Chronology Yes def59, there are MANY twi's, and probably MANY ways to break them all down - here's one man's view: Pre-Cult twi: 1942-approx. 1950: Vesper Chimes Radio "Ministry" Denominational pastorates Influence from sources later plagarized Early 50's: "Research" that would later become PFAL Plagarism of sources later incorporated into PFAL Publication of various pamphlets and monographs 1953: PFAL first taught after attending and then plagarizing BG Leonard's class Mid - Late 50's: India Trip PFAL taught in areas outside New Knoxville Proto-cult twi: 1957: VP leaves (or is thrown out of) denomination Group formally incorporated as The Way Inc. Large Board of Directors governs organization Late 50's - Mid 60's: Doctrine begins to take on unique form that will later solidify into Jesus Christ is not God, Dead not alive, etc. Board of Directors canned by VP in favor of three-man Board of Trustees Late 60's: Growth begins to accelarate More PFAL classes outside local Ohio area (Mal George and Donnie Fugit also teach class live) Class filmed and distributed Most Way doctrines now "etched in stone" with filming of PFAL Cult twi I ("Wierwille as the MOG" Regime): Early 70's: VP takes advantage of aspects of the "hippies" and "Jesus Movement" to form base of new expansion and growth All Abundant sharing brought into HQ ROA's start Way Corps initiated after one false start (zero Corps) WOW program initiated VP takes over semi-independent Way East and Way West Way Tree concept solidifies VP's control as MOG over all fellowships using PFAL Contoversial doctrines put in book form and pushed as doctrinal centerpieces (JCING, ADAN) Late 70's: Huge growth Huge classes (PFAL 77, Adv Class 79) Worldwide expansion Way Corps groups increase Replacement of non-Way Corps twig and branch leaders by Way Corps grads Early 80's: Pinnacle of VP as MOG Huge international expansion (e.g. Zaire) Way Corps training in Europe and South America WOW Festivals in Europe, Africa, Australia, South America Martindale begins to push Wierwille aside to establish personal control Interregnum (aka Fog Years): Late 80's: Wierwille dies Some top leaders question Martindale Passing of the Patriarch read Geer-Martindale power struggle Five member Board of Trustees Leaders are fired or leave "Loyalty to Loy" letter sent out Offshoots are started by ex-Way leaders Mass defections from twi So-called Galatians tapes recorded Cult twi II (Martindale really in charge): Early 90's: Martindale works to re-establish his authority Galatians tapes deseminated as "Leadership tapes" to discredit Geer, Lynn and other ex-Way leaders and offshoot founders Martindale films new PFAL Advanced Class and Defeating the Adversary Class Mark and Avoid and Probation stepped up to keep control Household/Zion concept pushed Martindale's "Rise and Expansion" book published Late 90's: Martindale's efforts at control turn nasty "Homo" purge Martindale announces that "the Word is over the world" ROA cancelled WOW program replaced by Way Disciples PFAL replaced by Way of Abundance and Power classes after two-year gap with no classes Word in Business cancelled Humiliations, purges, and control increases Advanced Class Specials every other year Cult twi III (Martindale out - Rosie in): 2000 - : Martindale purged 1/3 of Region Coordinators leave Rivenbark regime "Kinder, gentler" TWI As each new phase begins, a revionist look at previous phases is introduced. For example, During the 80's and 90's, Martindale was revered as the supreme MOG, while now his name is never mentioned. During the late 80's there were times that Chris Geer had de facto control of the Way. Two additional Trustees were added, these facts were not acknowledged in later phases. The pre-70's Way Inc. is looked back upon as the same as the current Way (household, etc.) when the structure was very different. Important early leaders who left are never mentioned again (e.g. Peter Wade) Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is [This message was edited by Oakspear on June 12, 2003 at 13:14.]

N'Yawk Siddy F---ing ay! Q. Whattaya think of Flushing, NY? A. Go ahead Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is

Yes, I was there then. If you stayed the next year, we undoubtedly know each other. I was in until August 2001. I believe all the WOWvets were in Way Homes: The Starr Street Way Home across from the fraternity house near east campus or the guys' Way Home closer to downtown with the fearless Way Corps "leader". Seeing from your profile that you are female and were in the way Corps, you had to have been the coordinator of the Starr Street Way Home. Am I correct? Didn't know you were "out" (assuming you are) Email me if you want to - oakspear@hotmail.com There is still a small Way presence in Lincoln - just one fellowship in the whole state. Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is [This message was edited by Oakspear on August 04, 2002 at 18:23.]

Dia Duit! Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is

..and the icon: I have worn Converse Chuck Taylors without interruption since I was bout 8 years old. (I HAVE taken the shoes off - I just don't like other brands) Funny how they go in and out of style. I've had several teenagers tell me how cool I am for wearing them. A local punk-rock band pointed me out at a local concert as a cool old dude who knew the best shoes to wear! Oakspear In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is [This message was edited by Oakspear on August 02, 2002 at 8:39.] [This message was edited by Oakspear on August 04, 2002 at 18:54.]

We have 4 seasons here: Blizzard Flood Drought Football

As Laleo said on another thread, I finally have a handle that can be spelled and pronounced! I initially logged onto Waydale as Taoiseach in April 2000. I had seen the word used in a book I had been reading, and liked the look of it. It's a gaelic word that means "leader". It is also the title that Irish Prime Ministers use in the Republic of Ireland. It's pronounced Tay-shock. When Waydale closed, I discovered that my "local user" handle would not work at Grease Spot Cafe, so I inserted a space and logged on as Taoi seach. That caused some confusion, as people were usually reading it as Tao Search. I really didn't want a number after my handle. :P--> To confuse the WayGB, I added a second handle the next summer: Twyril III. ("Twy" rhymes with "why", "buy", "lie" - "ril" rhymes with "bill", "spill") Twyril was a character in a novel that I wrote in high school. The name derives from "twybil", a two-bladed axe. After a while I dropped the "III" and used Twyril. To further confuse the WayGB, I added ANOTHER handle, John Oakspear in the fall of 2000. I acted as if it was my real name. Oak is the sacred tree of the Celtic people, and the spear honored the warrior ethic, since I was fighting against twi at the time. I used the different handles for different things; but settled into using Twyril as my regular handle by the summer of 2001. However the WayGB figured out I was Twyril in August 2001, so I reverted to using Taoiseach, tacking Seoigh(a gaelic version of Joyce, my last name). Taoiseach Seoigh was the name I was using when I first entered the chat room. I stopped using Taoiseach when an "innie" family member figured out that I was using that handle. I dropped "John" from Oakspear a year ago this month and adopted it as my sole handle. After all this changing, I am comfortable with Oakspear! Hardly anyone misspells it, and some GSers this summer used it even when they knew my real name. It is the handle under which I have really gotten to know people here at the Cafe. I didn't publicize my real name when I first posted this, since I didn't want google searches and the like leading back here, but I have since "outed" myself: I am Thomas James Joyce, Jr. :D--> Oakspear [This message was edited by Oakspear on February 14, 2003 at 9:21.] [This message was edited by Oakspear on July 14, 2003 at 0:43.]

During the days of ROA, I never took a vacation that didn't involve some "event", other than a long weekend. The only people I knew who actually took non-Way vacations were a couple who owned their own business, as well as a partnership in a family farm, so they were not limited to acertain amount of weeks every year. Oh, and when the Corps were full time, they got to take a vacation, since going to classes and "events" was "work" for them. THAT kind of chapped my @$$ because I had to take MY vacation going to classes. Last year I took my vacation at scout camp. I had a great time with my son and his friends and the other scout dads (and moms) This year my vacation was the Oakspear 2002 North American Tour. A more enjoyable, relaxing vaction I have never had! I had 16 days off, spent 13 of them on the road visting family and GSers, and the last three just hanging out, and drinking beer. Oakspear [This message was edited by Oakspear on August 25, 2002 at 16:34.]

I saw the trailer for LOTR: The Two Towers last night. Looks good! Lot's of battles. Had a scene that looked like the seige of Helm's Deep that looked awesome! Also a scene that looked like a confrontation between Aragorn and Eowyn. (I am secretly in love with Eowyn!) Now I have to wait until December Oakspear

Thank you, Abby, for posting "your story" for us. There are a lot of good reasons for baring one's soul like this: one is the effect it will have on others. Even though you are out of the Way, it's not "over". The evil that was perpetrated still effects many who have left. There are still those who are inside who are wavering; who could very easily decide to leave because of what you posted here. Reading others' "stories" on Waydale helped get me to the point where I provoked "leadership" into kicking me out. The past is not "the past" until we decide it is; until the lingering effects are gone; until they stop doing it to others. What those b*st*rds in The Way Corporation did to marriages borders on the criminal. they found the fault lines and put pressure on the them. They would use the "waybrained" half of the marriage, the one who was deeper "in" to control the one who thought for him or herself. In your marriage, it was, you, the wife who wouldn't swallow the Way line, and was therefore a danger; in my case, it was me, the husband. The Way was and is patriarchal, no doubt about it. Women have always been devalued in The Way, no doubt about that either; but the bottom line was that PEOPLE were devalued. It was pretty degrading to conform to the Way's view of how a man should act when they were using your own wife against you. (note: this is not a disagreement with Abigail's position! I sent my thoughts to her by email before posting them here and she encouraged me to post them in this forum) What so-called leaders told people about sex was disgusting, but not all of us men bought into it. I cannot imagine forcing someone, demanding, or even BRINGING UP that verse on due benevolence, when there is no desire. And I never did, even when I was "cut off". (how enjoyable can sex be if you're doing it because someone TOLD you to do it?) Despite what King MOG spouted in the so-called Believers' Family Class, sex is not like AIR, you will not DIE without it! Really! Believe me, I know! What some women went through sexually at the hands of their husbands and at the direction of "leadership" was sick. It perverted a wonderful thing into a DUTY, into just another way to OBEY LEADERSHIP, another way to OBEY THE "WORD". Sex is NOT a way to get your spouse in a "good mood" - but a reflection and result of love and trust, not a d*mned ritual to be performed. Abigail, anamchara, thanks again for baring your soul in this forum - I for one appreciate it. Oakspear

You're only as old as (the woman) you feel Happy 50th old-timer! Oak(a still youthful 44)spear

Minority Report! I liked Spidey, but M.R. was GREAT! I thought it dragged a little in the middle, but there was lots of suspense, cool special effects, excellent concept and some nice plot twists

WOWvet in North Platte, Nebraska, 1980-81 [This message was edited by Oakspear on September 29, 2003 at 2:07.]

1. In the original post, the word "mommy" is in quotes, indicating that the writer is not claiming to be a mommy, but only to have taken on some of the characteristics or functions of a mommy. 2. I'm a father of a (small) multitude but do not see them often because of circumstances somewhat beyond my control. I did not see them on Father's Day. Happy Un-Parents Day