Oakspear

Thanks Insurgent, you wrote almost exactly what I was thinking about. Posting these incidents and discussions can be part of the healing process. Try to look at it that way Erick. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Tom's Bedtime CD Pick for Tuesday night: The Al DiMeola Project Kiss My Axe. Al was a veteran of Return To Forever, the "original" fusion band that had Chick Corea and Stanley Clark as two of it's other founding members (I'm drawing a blank on the drummer --> ) and has stayed busy ever since. Kiss My Axe is a guitar oriented album, very fast paced, showcasing DiMeola's abilities on the guitar. It's mostly instrumentals, which I especially enjoy. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Is Wierwille's claim in PFAL that "Iscariot" means "man of Iscar" an actual error? It seems like he changed it in Jesus Christ Our Passover to Ish Kerioth, man of Kerioth. I do not believe that there is an "Iscar" in Judea Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Like A Mountain Cast to the sea all your troubles like a mountain of fear Watch the fig tree of your demons Wither from the ground up Calm raging seas Walking on them Because you love your Lord All hurts are healed and no sorrow But that day's not today Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

When I first took PFAL, I caught a few of the errors that have been posted in this thread, but didn't go nuts about them, because I fuly expected that the class would be the fallible work of a fallible man. Some of the things, like "God can only give or speak to what he is", I did not understand, but didn't stress out about it because I was willing to carry on without understanding everything! The problem that I saw was how people, leadership and non-, often took what he said as above question. Even ideas that you could prove were wrong were brushed off if VP said it. His words were quoted as if they were scripture. Mike is not as unique as we think he is. During my last year "in", I had a heated exchange with my HFC in his kitchen about "Jew and Judean". He was holding forth to the twiggies about how Yiddish was really Khazaric written in Hebrew characters which proved that modern-day Jews were really Khazars when I corrected him. He tried to brush me off, but I pressed the issue until I had to forcefully say "Doctor Wierwille was WRONG!" You could have heard a pin drop in that kitchen. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Tom's Bedtime CD Pick for Monday night: Pink Floyd's Meddle. This was the album just before their ground-breaking Dark Side of the Moon, when they were at the height of their reign as a "head" band. Side Two is taken up with the incredible cut called Echoes. Another Favorite of mine is One of These Days, which has a very cool bass intro. Meddle and Dark Side of the Moon are my favorite Pink Floyd albums, followed closely by Wish You Were Here. I think Roger Waters got too politically allegorical with Animals and The Wall, and the earlier albums were a little too "weird" for my taste. Rosedale Tom "We're just two lost souls living in a fish bowl, year after year..." Gilmore, Mason, Waters, Wright

Rafael: I was being a bit of a wise-guy, but I really do hate to see a thread that has, for the most part, been sane and logical, get derailed by illogical ramblings. The participants in this thread have generally refrained from Wierwille bashing; the focus on the facts, rather than opinion or interpretation has been invaluable. Might I suggest not letting Mike derail this thread by not engaging him in pseudo-debate over his "ideas". Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

....!!!! :(--> Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

socks: I don't remember "Curly Cook", but music was one big incestuous family back then :P-->, so perhaps you are right. Peter Green has been out and about playing these last few years, but I haven't heard any of his new stuff. The album Jumping at Shadows has a great version of Black Magic Woman (written by Green, not Carlos S, as you know) Rosedale Tom "I'm goin' down to Rosedale..." Robert Johnson

It was so peaceful over on the "music" thread. I was grooving to the memories of Ted F and socks and posting my Bedtime CD Picks, really enjoying my escape from the Mike Wars. I have liked the "Actual Errors" thread from the start...so logical...so rational... :)--> But it has turned into another Mike thread Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

I'm not Jerry Barrax, but I do play him on T.V.... :D--> In handling any kind of contradiction one looks for internal consistancy. If one part inarguably disagrees with another part, then we have an inconsistancy or a contradiction. If one accepts the premise that what one is examining is by definition without error, then all inconsistancies and contradictions become only apparent inconsistancies and contradictions. Many of us applied that rule to the bible and our study of it. If one wants to objectively handle inconsistancies and contradictions, then assuming, before any evidence is presented, that there are no errors is dishonest, even when dealing with the bible :o--> What is being done on this thread is identifying actual errors in PFAL; not differences of opinion or of interpretation, but identifiable, verifiable errors. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare [This message was edited by Oakspear on January 27, 2003 at 12:42.]

Tied in with this is the Wierwillian definition of "interpretation". His definition of ????????/?????? - epilusis/epilu? is based on Bullinger's definition given in How to Enjoy the Bible, but as usual, without fully understanding it. Bullinger defines "interpretation" as a "letting loose" and gives several non-biblical uses of the word in context, one of which is to unloose dogs, as upon the game. Bullinger's further examples, as well as his citing of bible verses using forms of ????????/?????? - epilusis/epilu? indicate that the emphasis is on unloosing, unbinding, opening, etc. Wierwille, again, without really understanding what Bullinger is saying, emphasizes the "dogs upon the game" part of the example, writing that we must not let our minds "run vagrantly" as dogs might. This is not to say that Bullinger was necessarily correct, or to cite Bullinger as a higher authority, but to show that Wierwille did use Bullinger as an authority when it suited him, but that his poor understanding of the point Bullinger was making twisted his definition. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Tom's Bedtime CD Pick: for Sunday night is Fleetwood Mac, Live in London '68 Lest you think that Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham are involved in this album, this is the original, pre-Stevie, blues band Fleetwood Mac. Mick Fleetwood (drums), John McVie (bass) and Peter Green (guitar) - all alumni of John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, with Jeremy Spenser and Danny Kerwan also on guitar. Eventually the guitarists dropped off one by one to join cults or get institutionalized, and Bob Welch became the guitarist (Sentimental Lady) and Christine Perfect McVie was added on keyboards. Welch left and Buckingham and Nicks formed the band that became the top 40 monster that most of us are familiar with. But I still love the three guitarist, bluesey, Fleetwood Mac the best. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Those on-line directions are great! I was visiting a GSer this summer who was not a native of the city she was then living in, so she was not able to give me adequate directions. I tried my old method of checking a street map, and found three streets named the same as the one she lived on in the same general area, all intersecting her cross street. Finally, I broke down and went to the internet, and had detailed direction right to her door. Although when I met with Hills, we just met at the Wendy's, and I followed him to his house :D--> Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Tommy Z You are correct Thanks dude Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

thump...thump...thump...thump Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

I walked away in early 1983, but never really lost my belief that Wierwille and the Way taught the truth. Walked back in in 1990. Was kicked out in 2001. What a relief. I had been "out" in my heart for a long time, so it was not very traumatic for me. They actually thought that they were hurting me and tried to manipulate me into a probation situation. What was traumatic was being asked by my wife to leave two months later. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Tom's Dinnertime CD Pick for Friday: Crossroads the Eric Clapton boxed set. Thought I'd throw on another Yardbirds guitarist this afternoon. I took off early from work (they still owed me a day from the holidays), did some laundry, vacuumed, dusted, tended my pet plants, caught up on emails, and listened to music. The EC boxed set starts off with the Yardbirds, a little John Mayall's Bluesbreakers (two bands that spawned some great musicians btw), Cream, Blind Faith, Delaney and Bonnie, Derek and the Dominoes, and EC's solo work. While I don't like everything Clapton came out with, what's on these 4 CDs is pretty much all stuff that I like. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Chatty: You were the 700th post on this thread! Way to go! Tom's Bedtime CD Pick for Thursday night is Jeff Beck Group aka The Orange Album, or just Orange by The Jeff Beck Group. This was the second incarnation of The Jeff Beck Group, the first included Rod Stewart and Ron Wood, this one had Cozy Powell on drums, Max Middleton on keyboards, and Bobby Tench on vocals. My favorite cuts are Going Down, which I think was a Freddy King number, and Definitely Maybe, and Highways two smooth instrumentals. Jeff Beck was one of The Yardbirds' guitarists who later made it big on his own; appearing first on For Your Love. Jeff's albums were varied and he completely changed his direction every album or two. This particular album is very R&B oriented, especially the vocals. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Wait a minute, I thought God emphasized things in his words by using italics. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Hmmmm....Takit...I think David Garibaldi was the regular drummer and Skip played sax and other. Dean E on bass, Danny Hoefer on guitar, and one other guitarist whose name escapes me. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Skip Mesquite

Hope: I always liked covers, but not so much when it's a "cloned" version. The beauty of a good cover is changing it up enough to make it fresh. In my deejay days, I produced a show called Shades of Blue which was probably 60% covers; usually a classic blues song followed by a rendition by a rock band, e.g. You Need Love by Muddy Waters, and Whole Lotta Love by Led Zeppelin; or Crossroads by Robert Johnson and by Cream. I lost track of how many versions I had of Baby Please Don't Go. And those 60's/70's rock bands were gold mines for blues covers. Foo Fighters do a great cover of Baker Street that I've been hearing a lot; and I liked Metallica's version of Bob Seager's Turn the Page; heard a heavy version of Kim Carnes' Total Eclipse of the Heart by a local band last month. Sometimes a cover is a quick and dirty way to gain a wider audience, sometimes it's a tribute to an artist that influenced the band, hard to say. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Tom's Bedtime CD Pick for Wednesday night: Flight of the Cosmic Hippo by Béla Fleck and the Flecktones. Béla Fleck plays electric banjo in a manner that will cause you to question whether you have ever actually heard a banjo before! He is backed by some great musicians, including Victor Wooten, one of the better bass players to come down the proverbial pike, and Howard Levy, a genius on harmonica. Also featured is Lamont "Future Man" Wooten, playing something called a "Synthaxe Drumitar" that synthesizes drum and guitar from the same guitar-shaped instrument...very strange This particular CD has a cover of The Star Spangled Banner and The Beatles' Michelle, a couple of killers called Flying Saucer Dudes and Turtle Rock; the title cut is a slow, funky, jazzy number that will take over your mind if you're not careful. I once closed a Way branch dance with it when the BC asked for something slow to end with :D--> I discovered Béla when I was late night deejay Rosedale Tom on a local radio station and have been hooked on the Flecktones ever since. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare

Monday night I went to an "open stage" at a local bar. They have a "house band" start things off, and then invite folks to jam with them, or if you have your own band, do a short set of your own. It is very popular and usually draws a big crowd. Monday night, after the first set by the house band, a band of junior high kids played some speed metal that was a little rough around the edges, but had a lot of heart. Next set was more blues. About halfway through the set, the MC convinced a guy sitting in the back to join the band on violin. Turns out he was a violinist with the symphony and has played in symphonies around the country. He was amazing! After a set of blues, he was joined by a symphony colleague and they did a duet that was hard to categorzize into a particular genre, but had the audience enraptured. After the set, he recieved the first standing ovation I had ever seen given at this bar. Oakspear "We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling" Henri Poincare